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#1
09-03-2011, 02:26 AM
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Recommissioned US Navy ships
I'm sure we already discussed that but here is what I found on the subject. With the war building up, several US ships which had been mouthballed sometimes for years are slowly put back into commission.
My take would be: 4 Essex-class Aircraft Carrier (Bennington, Hornet, Lexington and Oriskany). In fact I found 6 around but I consider that 2 are to be used for spare parts and 1 (Lexington) had just been decommissioned). 2 Des Moines-class Cruisers (Salem and Des Moines). The last being used for spare parts. 12 Forrest Sherman-class Destroyers (Very recently taken out of service) 4 FRAM modified destroyers 6 Terrebonne Parish-class LST (or similar ships) 3 GUPPY program submarines Several Asheville-class Corvettes Several PBR and PCF River Patrol Boats Brooke and Garcia-class frigates are up to you. For my part they had not been decommissioned. Same thing for the 3 Barbel-class submarines. I didn't include auxiliary ships as they are much more numerous To note, some of these types such as the FRAM, GUPPY and T.Parrish are still found in large numbers in foreign navies. I tend to have most FRAM being delivered to the carribeans where they end up fighting the Mexican ones. 
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#2
09-03-2011, 10:15 AM
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Very good. Do you have hull numbers and names for the destroyers? And how many Ashevilles do you figure are left?
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#3
09-03-2011, 02:33 PM
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Hull numbers for the FRAM destroyers:
DD743 Southerland DD724 Laffey DD763 William C. Lawe DD850 Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. Then, I would count something like 10 to 12 Ashevilles but I'm not entirely sure. Some would be recovered from the civilian agencies they were transfered to and need extensive refit. Others could be recovered from countries where they were on lease (2 to be transferred to Greece, 2 from Colombia and 1 from Korea). The last would be found in the reserve fleet. As far as I know it is possible that only one had been destroyed by the mid-1990's
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#4
09-03-2011, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Sure moves toward refurbishment may have started, but as has been discussed previously, there's no justification for it prior to June/July 1997 - The bulk of Pact shipping is on the bottom before then and Nato rules the waves. There's more important things to spend precious war resources on than refitting ships which in the eyes of the politicians who hold the purse strings, is completely unnecessary. In all theatres the Pact in on the retreat in the first half of 1997 and victory can be smelt. It's only the Pact use of tactical nukes that allows them to tip the balance.
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If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem
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#5
09-04-2011, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
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#6
09-04-2011, 09:45 AM
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Ok, hypothetically if the US was to somehow decide that recommissioning ships was something they needed to do before the war turned nuclear, and they were able to scrape up the resources needed to do the job from whatever was left just getting the troops mobilised, equiped and shipped over to their respective battlefields, what's to say the opposition can't do the same?
Do we really want to see yet another series of sea battles this time using 40+ year old rustbuckets which end with the same result - a lot of pointless deaths and everything on the bottom? In my mind, it just doesn't make sense to refurbish much of anything especially since you completely unbalance the game world by doing so. It's no longer T2K, but "the US tromps all over everything" UNLESS you radically upscale and extend effective and widescale sea combat by invigorating ALL sides.
__________________
If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem
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#7
09-04-2011, 10:02 AM
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There is also something else to consider when bringing mothballed ships back into service. Many of these ships date to WWII/Korea and are very manpower intensive, something that the modern navy has moved away from.
Another factor to consider is the time and cost of refitting these ships. The best example is, of course, the recommissioning of the four Iowa-class Battleships. The New Jersey (BB62) was commissioned 23 May 1943 and deactivated 30 June 1948. She was reactivated 21 Nov 1950 and deactivated 21 Aug 1957. She was reactivated on 6 April 1968 and deactivated again on 17 Dec 1969. She was reactivated again on 28 Dec 1982. She was refitted for each of her activations, losing her 20mm and most of her 40mm batteries for the Korean War, the remaining 40mm for the Vietnam War and then her final configuration (fitted with Tomahawk/Harpoon/Phalanx) for her "modern" deployment. Her cost for her latest refit was $332.7 million. The Iowa (BB61) was commissioned 22 Feb 1943 and deactivated 23 Mar 1949. She was reactivated 25 Aug 1951 and deactivated again on 24 Feb 1958. Her final activation took place on 28 April 1984. Her refit cost came to $348.7 million. The Missouri (BB63) was commissioned 11 June 1944 and she was deactivated on 26 Feb 1955. She was reactivated 10 May 1986. Her cost came to $473.3 million. The Wisconsin (BB64) was commissioned 16 Apr 1944 and she was deactivated 1 July 1948. She was reactivated again on 3 May 1951 and deactivated 8 Mar 1958. She was reactivated on 1 Aug 1986. Cost for her refit came to $503.1 million. As you can see, the longer the ship is out of commission, the more expensive her rebuild. Going with accelerated production with the Sino-Soviet War and tensions with the Soviet Union, I really don't see a lot of the older (WWII/Korea/Vietnam-era) mothballed warships being brought back into service. It really would be a case of not enough return on the investment, not to mention recruiting and training sailors on equipment that really is old enough to draw Social Security.
__________________
The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#8
09-03-2011, 03:26 PM
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Going into the 1995 start date...
There are 5 Essex-class carriers: AVT-61 Lexington was the Navy's training carrier (no armament and only air search and nav radars); CVA-31 Bon Homme Richard (4 5-inch/38 single mounts and air, surface and nav radars); CV-34 Oriskany (1 5-inch/38 single mount and air, surface and nav radars); CVS-12 Hornet (3 5-inch/38 singles) and CVS-20 Bennington (4 5-inch/38 singles), the CVS have full radar suites. With the exception of Lexington, the remaining Essex-class carriers can best be described as being in very poor material condition, it would actually be cheaper to build new ships than attempt to modernize these ships. And don't forget, during this time, they were too small to operate modern jet aircraft, they mostly likely could have carried a AV-8B/SH-60F air group, but where would the spare aircraft come from? There are actually three Des Moines class heavy cruisers: CA-148 Newport News, CA-134 Des Moines and CA-139 Salem, the Newport News suffered a turret explosion in her number 2 turret during the Vietnam War. While the most modern of the three ships, the Newport News, it is doubtful that she would be recommissioned. So she would most likely be used as spare parts for her two sisters. There are actually two classes of Forrest Sherman destroyers. The ones most likely to be recommissioned are the ASW or "Davis" Class, these six ships gave up the w-inch mounts and one of the 5-inch mounts in order to mount a Mark 16 ASROC launcher. The remaining five ships gave up their 3-inch mounts and were refited with Mark 32 ASW torpedo tubes. Of the remaining three ships; DD-933 Barry is a hulk at the Washington Navy Yard and is used in official ceremonies. DD-938 Jonas Ingram was stripped of weapons and electronics and is a test hulk at the Philadelphia Naval Yard; the last, DD-945 Hull was stricken and was being scrapped. The FRAM conversion destroyers were all stricken or transferred to other navies, its doubtful that they would have been recommissioned, again due to poor material condition. Of the Brooke and Garcia-class figs, its more likely that the Brookes would have been recommissioned, due to their SAM launcher. And certainly the Knox-class would have been kept in service. As for the Garcias...they could have been reactivated, but the Knox-class was a better all around platform. Of the 17 Asheville-class patrol gunboats, 1 was discarded in 1984, 3 were stricken in 1977, 2 went to the Massachusetts Maritime Academy in 1976/78, 2 went to the EPA in 1977/78, and 5 were transferred to Columbia, Turkey and South Korea in 1971/2 in 1973 and 2 in 1983. Based on the timeline, they just wouldn't have been available for recommissing. According to the Naval Institute Guide to the USN, these ships were transferred as part of the Military Assistance Program, not leased, the USN couldn't recall them. Entering into the Twilight War, the USN still had 3 PB Mark IV, 17 PB Mk III, 2 PB Mk I in service, as well as 30 PBR Mk2 (Vietnam-era Swift boats) and 22 armored troop carriers (Vietnam-era riverine craft). The 6 "Terrebonne Parish" LSTs are survivors of a class built during the Korean War. They are all in the Suisun Bay National Defense Reserve Fleet along with the 3 "De Soto County" class. These ships haven't seen service since 1972. Like the rest of the Suisun Bay ships, their material condition is "very poor". Going into the 1990s, the only GUPPY-class sub still in service was SS-576 Darter, she was also the last US sub to use the old Mark37 torpedoes (the GUPPYs cannot use the Mk48 ADCAPS without extensive modification). The other two, SS-565 Wahoo is partially stripped and is a hulk and SS-566 Trout is in mothballs, both at the Philadelphia Naval Yard. Hope this helps!
__________________
The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#9
09-03-2011, 06:03 PM
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While some of the vessels are described as in poor material condition and easier to replace than upgrade, once the nukes have started flying, this attitude may have another think coming. If a ship could be made watertight and her engines made to get her underway, I get the feeling that lots of improvements would be made enroute to wherever she's headed with a couple of welding units, a portable machine shop, salvaged structural steel, and scrounged wiring, pipe, conduit, and electronics.
Philadelphia Naval Yard seems to be within the devastation range of the western New Jersey oil refinery strikes, not to mention the aftermath of rioting and dog-eat-dog survival. Personnel, equipment, and materials stand little chance of making it through to carry on the fight.
__________________
"Let's roll." Todd Beamer, aboard United Flight 93 over western Pennsylvania, September 11, 2001.
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#10
09-03-2011, 08:57 PM
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Here what I had in a file I call US ships at dock
Submarines SSN 575 Seawolf 30 March 1987 Scrapped 30 Sept 1997, Bremerton SSN 578 Skate 12 Sept 1986 Scrapped 6 March 1995, Bremerton SSN 579 Swordfish 2 June 1989 Scrapped 11 Sept 1995, Bremerton SS 580 Barbel 4 Dec 1989 Sold 4 March 1992 SS 582 Bonefish 28 Sept 1988 Sold 17 August 1989 SSN 583 Sargo 26 Feb 1988 Scrapped 5 April 1995, Bremerton SSN 584 Seadragon 12 June 1983 Scrapped 18 Sept 1995 SSN 585 Skipjack 19 April 1990 Pending scrapping, Bremerton SSN 586 Triton 29 March 1969 Pending scrapping, Bremerton SSN 587 Halibut 30 June 1976 Scrapped 9 Sept 1994, Bremerton SSN 588 Scamp 28 April 1988 Scrapped 30 Sept 1994, Bremerton SSN 590 Sculpin 3 Aug 1990 Pending scrapping, Bremerton SSN 591 Shark 16 Oct 1986 Scrapped 28 June 1996, Bremerton SSN 592 Snook 16 Oct 1986 Pending scrapping, Bremerton SSN 594 Permit 23 July 1991 Scrapped 20 May 1993, Bremerton SSN 595 Plunger 10 Feb 1989 Scrapped 8 March 1996, Bremerton SSN 596 Barb 20 Dec 1989 Scrapped 14 March 1996, Bremerton SSN 597 Tullibee 18 June 1988 Scrapped 1 April 1996, Bremerton SSN 598 G. Washington 24 Jan 1985 Scrapped 30 Sept 1998, Bremerton SSN 599 P. Henry 25 May 1984 Scrapped 31 Aug 1997, Bremerton SSBN 600 T. Roosevelt 28 Feb 1981 Scrapped 24 March 1995, Bremerton SSN 601 R.E. Lee 1 Dec 1983 Scrapped 30 Sept 1991, Bremerton SSBN 602 A. Lincoln 28 Feb 1981 Scrapped 10 May 1994, Bremerton SSN 603 Pollack 1 March 1989 Scrapped 17 Feb 1995, Bremerton SSN 604 Haddo 1 Oct 1990 Scrapped 30 June 1992, Bremerton SSN 605 Jack 2 Oct 1989 Scrapped 30 June 1992, Bremerton SSN 606 Tinosa 15 July 1991 Scrapped 15 Aug 1992, Bremerton SSN 607 Dace 27 Feb 1988 Scrapped 17 Jan 1997, Bremerton SSN 608 E. Allen 31 March 1983 Scrapped 30 July 1999, Bremerton SSN 609 S. Houston 1 March 1991 Scrapped 3 Feb 1992, Bremerton SSN 610 T.A. Edison 1 Dec 1983 Scrapped 1 Dec 1997, Bremerton SSN 611 J. Marshall 14 Feb 1991 Scrapped 29 March 1993, Bremerton SSN 612 Guardfish 15 July 1991 Scrapped 9 July 1992, Bremerton SSN 613 Flasher 18 July 1991 Scrapped 11 May 1994, Bremerton SSN 614 Greenling 1 Oct 1993 Scrapped 30 Sept 1994, Bremerton SSN 615 Gato 7 April 1995 Scrapped 1 Nov 1996, Bremerton SSBN 616 Lafayette 1 March 1991 Scrapped 25 Feb 1992, Bremerton SSBN 617 A. Hamilton 1 Oct 1992 Scrapped 28 Feb 1994, Bremerton SSN 618 T. Jefferson 24 Jan 1985 Scrapped 6 March 1998, Bremerton SSBN 619 A. Jackson 31 Aug 1989 Scrapped 30 Aug 1999, Bremerton SSBN 620 J. Adams 14 Sep 1988 Scrapped 12 Feb 1996, Bremerton SSN 621 Haddock 2 Apr 1992 Pending scrapping, Bremerton SSBN 622 J. Monroe 22 Feb 1990 Scrapped 10 Jan 1995, Bremerton SSBN 623 N. Hale 5/1986* Scrapped 5 April 1994, Bremerton SSBN 624 W. Wilson 11 Jan 1993 Scrapped 27 Oct 1998, Bremerton SSBN 625 H. Clay 12 Mar 1990 Scrapped 30 Sept 1997, Bremerton SSBN 627 J. Madison 11 Aug 1991 Scrapped 24 Oct 1997, Bremerton SSBN 628 Tecumseh 15 Feb 1993 Scrapped 1 April 1994, Bremerton SSBN 629 Daniel Boone 1 Oct 1993 Scrapped 4 Nov 1994, Bremerton SSBN 630 J. C. Calhoun 1 Oct 1993 Scrapped 18 Nov 1994, Bremerton SSBN 631 U. S. Grant 14 Feb 1992 Scrapped 29 March 1993, Bremerton SSBN 632 V. Steuben 7 Jul 1993 Pending scrapping, Bremerton SSBN 633 C. Pulaski 1 Oct 1993# Scrapped 21 Oct 1994, Bremerton SSBN 634 S. Jackson 10 Jun 1994 Scrapped 13 Oct 1995, Bremerton SSBN 636 N. Greene May 1986 Scrapped 20 Oct 2000, Bremerton SSN 637 Sturgeon 15 April 1994 Scrapped 11 Sep 1995, Bremerton
__________________
I will not hide. I will not be deterred nor will I be intimidated from my performing my duty, I am a Canadian Soldier.
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#11
07-23-2015, 01:05 PM
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PGM-84 USS Asheville - Transferred to the Massachusetts Maritime Academy 11 April 1977, Broken up in 1985. PGM-85 USS Gallup – Decommissioned in 1977 and placed in reserve, transferred to Naval Research Center Carderock, MD as a parts hulk in 1992 PGM-86 USS Antelope - Transferred to the Environmental Protection Agency 17 January 1978, Active as of 2001 PGM-87 USS Ready - Transferred to the Massachusetts Maritime Academy 11 April 1977, Broken up in 1985 PGM-88 USS Crockett - Transferred to the Environmental Protection Agency 17 January 1978, and scrapped in 1994 PGM-89 USS Marathon - Transferred to the Massachusetts Maritime Academy 11 April 1977, Broken up in 1985 PGM-90 Canon - Decommissioned in 1977 and placed in reserve, transferred to Naval Research Center Carderock, MD as a parts hulk in 1992 PGM-92 Tacoma – Sold to Columbia on 4 December 1995, Active PGM-93 Welch – Sold to Columbia on 12 April 1995, Active PGM-94 Chehalis - Converted to a Research Vessel and renamed R/V Athena, still active Homeport is Naval Surface Warfare Center, Panama City FL PGM-95 Defiance – Sold to Turkey 11 June 1973, destroyed by fire 11 April 1985 PGM-96 Benicia – Sold to South Korea on 2 October 1971, returned to the US in 1991, scrapped 1998 PGM-97 Surprise – Sold to Turkey 11 June 1973, Active PGM-98 Grand Rapids - Converted to a Research Vessel and renamed R/V Athena II, still active Homeport is Naval Surface Warfare Center, Panama City FL PGM-99 Beacon - Transferred to Greece, 22 November 1989, in service till 1995 PGM-100 Douglas Rapids - Converted to a Research Vessel and renamed R/V Lauren, still active Homeport is Naval Surface Warfare Center, Panama City FL, Sunk as a target in 2008 PGM-101 Green Bay - Transferred to Greece, 22 November 1989, in service till 1995 Source: NavSource Online, Motor Gunboat/Patrol Gunboat Photo Archive http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/11idx.htm As you can see there are only six boats left in the US and two of those are been used a part hulks, but five of them are still US Navy and could brought back to active duty. The sixth boat is with the EPA and would like require a fair bit of modication as most of lab and other Science equipment would have to be removed.
__________________
I will not hide. I will not be deterred nor will I be intimidated from my performing my duty, I am a Canadian Soldier.
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#12
07-24-2015, 08:53 PM
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My only question with recommissioning these ships is, where's the fuel they will burn coming from? I think any surviving Nuclear powered vessel would be worth it's weight in gold. The big aircraft carriers could be pressed into service as transports once their aircraft were expended. They can travel "Across the Pond" at will AND haul huge quantities of material while still being able to defend themselves from most remaining threats. I think the Navy would be concentrating on big container ships that were "upgunned" in order to move as much cargo as possible in a single trip. Patrols would be carried out with the smallest most economical ship that could perform the mission (including sailboats) in order to save any remaining fuel for the big container ships.
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#13
07-24-2015, 09:32 PM
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There's also the potential for nuclear powered vessels to act as tugs. Hauling a barge gives them increased capacity but they could effectively double/triple the capacity of a barge by towing a cargo ship instead.
Not saying it would be a common practice but if you're in a relatively safe area it's an alternative to trying to find fuel for all the diesel ships, particularly if you need cargo moved now instead of later. Edit: There's a decent list of nuclear powered surface ships on the following link (it's just a matter of figuring which ships survived!) http://www.radiationworks.com/nuclearships.htm Last edited by StainlessSteelCynic; 07-24-2015 at 09:35 PM. Reason: Adding info
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#14
07-25-2015, 02:20 AM
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Remember a lot of the older ships had engines that could burn very dirty fuel - ie basically unrefined oil. That kind of fuel is still going to be available because you don't have to go thru the effort of refining it - thus the older ships are actually the best ones they would have to use from a fuel standpoint compared to modern ships.
Let alone the older ships have less complex fire control and weapons systems - especially in a post TDM America (as in Last Submarine) where they were lucky to scrape up a half dozen modern torpedoes - whereas I doubt there is any shortage of 5 inch naval gum ammo.
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#15
07-28-2015, 12:29 PM
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Warning: here be snippage
Quote:
If you'd care to stretch things a bit, the two sales to Colombia (effective Late 1995) might be cancelled with international conflict on the rise, and perhaps the scrapping of PGM-88 USS Crockett, might have been delayed, but only if you take into account the resurgence of the Hardline Communist Soviet Union post 1990 in the V2 timeline. "Scrapping" doesn't mean "Immediately Broken Up" necessarily. That would make up to 8 ships with a possible 2 more if extreme efforts were made to bring back the parts hulks to full function. Depending what sorts of equipment the EPA boat has aboard, it might behoove them to leave it in place, if it's still working post-EMP. PGM-97 USS Surprise, the one of the two PGMs sold to Turkey that didn't burn up may be salvageable or just in need of repair/fuel somewhere on the Mediterranian/Black Sea coasts. Mediterranian Cruise sideshow perhaps? To echo a previously mentioned concern: where will the fuel for the gas turbines come from for the Ashevilles? Or will the turbines be removed and the weight replaced with more functional and necessary items?
__________________
"Let's roll." Todd Beamer, aboard United Flight 93 over western Pennsylvania, September 11, 2001. Last edited by WallShadow; 07-28-2015 at 12:34 PM.
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#16
07-30-2015, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Yes maybe they could used in Caribbean, but how good a boat designed for small craft interception going to be against a Soviet Sub? Granted that both Turkey and Greece have Ashville’s but in small number and used as auxiliary craft and combat craft and I don’t think they would survived the Turks and Greeks going head to head. There a few small boats that you could use a CONTUS base campaign Asheville-Class Gunboat PGM-85 USS Gallup – Transferred to Naval Research Center Carderock, MD as a parts hulk PGM-90 Canon - Transferred to Naval Research Center Carderock, MD as a parts hulk PGM-86 USS Antelope - Transferred to the Environmental Protection Agency PGM-88 USS Crockett - Transferred to the Environmental Protection Agency awaiting scrapping at a reserve fleet location PGM-94 Chehalis - Renamed R/V Athena, Homeport NSWC, Panama City FL PGM-98 Grand Rapids - Renamed R/V Athena II, Homeport NSWC, Panama City FL PGM-100 Douglas Rapids - Renamed R/V Lauren, Homeport NSWC, Panama City FL Patrol Craft Fast (PCF) PCF-1- In Storage at Naval Historical Center Washington Navy Yard in Washington, D.C PCF-2 – Renamed R/V Matthew F. Maury operated by Tidewater Community College in Virginia Beach, Virginia. United States Coast Guard Point-Class Cutters There would about 48 of these boats still active service most with the coast guard. Patrol Boat, River or PBR There are five boats in use at Naval Amphibious Base Coronado to support special warfare training
__________________
I will not hide. I will not be deterred nor will I be intimidated from my performing my duty, I am a Canadian Soldier.
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#17
06-11-2018, 05:16 PM
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Did some research and the USS Trout was in a lot better shape than I thought - she was retained at Key West until 2003 and was not only in fully usable shape but could still dive (300 feet or less depth) and was capable of bottoming
http://www.submarinesailor.com/Boats.../helptrout.htm From the site - the speed numbers are under remote control FYI The Trout was sold to the Shah of Iran. She was rebuilt in 1979-1980 and restored to near perfect condition. Restoration included $26 million in upgrades, new engines, three sets of batteries, and all systems totally reconditioned. Before the transfer could take place the Iranians seized American hostages and the vessel was seized by the US along with other Iranian assets. The vessel lay at Inactive Ships Facilities in the Philadelphia Shipyard while legal and diplomatic efforts ensued. The USS Trout was sold at scrap value to the Program Executive Office for Undersea Warfare (PEO USW) in 1994 and moored at Newport, Rhode Island. The vessel was then acquired by the NAWCAD Key West Detachment as an underwater acoustic target for ASW research and development, operational testing and training requirements for the US Navy. Based on ASW fleet input, NAWCAD felt there existed a need for an underwater acoustic target. The US Navy has had a difficult time obtaining required test and training time on realistic ASW acoustic targets. It was thought the USS Trout II could provide necessary and timely services as a dedicated asset. It could allow unrestricted active search, with no standoff required. It can operate in less than 300 feet of water and is capable of bottoming. It will operate at one to three knots and will allow torpedo terminal homing algorithm testing. With a crew she was capable of 16 knots and still had crew quarters and accommodations From a 2003 appeal to try to save the sub This boat is a virtual time capsule, with the majority of her systems not only intact, but operational. Even her batteries are brand-new (without electrolyte) Thus the Navy would have access to a fully operational diesel boat - i.e. she isnt a fast attack but she is capable of diving, has fresh batteries and still had her torpedo tubes and she can fire the Mark 48 - the Trout was actually the primary firing ship for the evaluation of the Mark 48 when it was first introduced into the fleet One possibility for her may be that she is part of the Sea Lord's forces - i.e. he dispatched a ship with fuel to man her and take her up to Jacksonville Last edited by Olefin; 06-12-2018 at 07:55 AM.
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