Civilian gun stockpiles in the US - a personal experience

[Olefin]

Just thought I might throw this in the mix for those doing campaigns in the US. Have seen modules where you run into civilians and they are armed with a shotgun or a pistol or a rifle, usually with limited ammo.

Growing up, my grandfather was what you would call a semi-avid gun collector. His stockpile of weapons might interest GM's who want to have their players run into people like him

His stockpile included:

Three pump 12 gauge shotguns
Three double barrel 12 gauge shotguns
An M1 Garand, with the bayonet
A Mauser
A 1911 Colt
Two 20 gauge single shot shotguns
A 10 gauge double barrel sawed off shotgun
A Remimgton Model 700 fitted with a sniper scope

He also had at least 900 rounds of 12 gauge shot gun ammo, 200 of 20 gauge and sixty for the ten gauge, plus more than enough for the rifles and six clips worth for the Colt pistol


And a few items only we knew about

A M3A1 Grease Gun - and five clips
A Thompson SMG - and three clips and three drums

A half case of dynamite he "obtained" from a guy who worked at a quarry

And I have met a bunch of people since then at gun shows who make his stockpile look like chump change

Been thinking of using him as an NPC sometime if and when I do another campaign

[weswood]

Going with myself and most guys I know, i would say an "average' hunter/collector would have 2 shotguns (1 a short barrled pump), at least 2 hunting rifles (1 .223/.243 range, 1 30-06/308 range) 1 .22 rifle, and 3 or 4 pistols, ranging from .22 to .44 magnum including both semiautos and revolvers.

Ammo... I try to keep 50 rounds each weapon (excpet .22 long rifle, got hundreds of those). On the other hand a friend has several hundred rounds for each weapon. He buys a box or two every time he goes to his hunting lease and doesn't use the whole box.

[Legbreaker]

An explanation of the apparent lack of weaponry in US civilian hands may be either a tightening of Laws during the early years of the war, or a call for weapons, any weapons for the soldiers to train with.

Another factor which seems overlooked is the waves of refugees from the cities. They will encounter defended farms and settlements, and likely the mob mentality will associate that with food and shelter and you may well see waves of unarmed or lightly armed refugees storming the defenders.

These "captured" weapons may be distributed amongst the survivors, or the ammo stocks seriously depleted during a successful defence. The weapons themselves may survive, but calibers commonly associated with auto or semiauto weapons would quickly become rare. Even faster firing weapons such as pump action shotguns might find themselves short or ammo rather quickly.

Sooner or later these weapons would be discarded as useless - a $10,000 automatic shotgun without ammo is nothing more than an unwieldy club, an iron bar is both cheaper and more effective.

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

An explanation of the apparent lack of weaponry in US civilian hands may be either a tightening of Laws during the early years of the war, or a call for weapons, any weapons for the soldiers to train with.

I find the legal explanation somewhat unlikely, Leg. One of the arguments that the anti-gun side uses in American politics is the theory that the Second Amendment - the element of our Constitution that addresses the right to keep and bear arms - applies to militias but not individuals. With incipient civil unrest, Division Cuba, and Soviets in Alaska, I believe you'd see widespread formation of militias on the state and county levels. That action would render the anti-gun political arguments somewhat irrelevant.

I also suspect any mass attempt at confiscation would fail horribly, not from organized resistance and rebellion so much as a general lack of enthusiasm for compliance or enforcement. Federal troops and law enforcement would have more pressing agendas, so you'd see a few high-profile busts of survivalists for press consumption and little else. Much of the burden would fall on local officials, and the locales in which they'd most aggressively pursue confiscation would be the areas with the fewest guns to begin with (due to existing anti-gun conditions).

Of the scenarios you present, I think the mob assault is the most likely. Ironically, this is one of the core arguments of the present-day resurgent survivalist ("prepper") movement, which substitutes "zombies" as a convenient shorthand for "aggressive, panicked neighbors who want your supplies."

- C.

[Legbreaker]

Yes, I agree the legal approach is likely doomed to failure in the US, but I was more thinking of a voluntary "loan" of weapons to the military by concerned, patriotic citizens. Here in Australia at the outbreak of WWII, the government made a plea to the people to donate rifles for training purposes to free up military weapons for the troops on the ground. Many of these rifles ended up in the hands of the militia forces tasked with local defence and never fired a shot in anger (although were used heavily on the range and patrolling the sand dunes along the coast).

[Tegyrius]

Hard to call. I don't know if the "it's a gub'mint conspiracy to disarm us!" froth would be outweighed by patriotic acquiescence. Personally, I have to admit I'd come down on the side of the frothers on this, but I may be veering dangerously close to current real-world politics in that...

- C.

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Yes, I agree the legal approach is likely doomed to failure in the US, but I was more thinking of a voluntary "loan" of weapons to the military by concerned, patriotic citizens. Here in Australia at the outbreak of WWII, the government made a plea to the people to donate rifles for training purposes to free up military weapons for the troops on the ground. Many of these rifles ended up in the hands of the militia forces tasked with local defence and never fired a shot in anger (although were used heavily on the range and patrolling the sand dunes along the coast).

I think that a "Call to Arms" or rather a call FOR arms would fail horribly in this day and age. A person like myself who does have a small (4-8 weapons) arsenal is going to be leary of "Give us your guns to help protect you."

Damn it, that is why I bought these things in the first place. IF SHTF, I know that "Big Brother" is going to take a long time to get to my little corner of the world. (E.G. Hurricane hit Fayetteville, NC in 1995. First responders did not get to my neighborhood for at least 36-48 hours. Those F.R.s were MP's from Fort Bragg. The local law and fire departments were WAY to busy with down trees and power lines. Tornadoes hit Fayetteville last spring. 1,000+ homes lost or damaged. Help was at least 24-48 hours. Again, down trees, down Power lines.)

SO, if SHTF in a Big way, how long could it be? Therefore it is up to me and those I trust (A Damn few, BTW) to keep law and order in our little area. Depending on the cause of SHTF, I just might be keeping my head down until I see just WTF happened and where to go from here.

My $0.02

Mike

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

An explanation of the apparent lack of weaponry in US civilian hands may be either a tightening of Laws during the early years of the war, or a call for weapons, any weapons for the soldiers to train with.

Another factor which seems overlooked is the waves of refugees from the cities. They will encounter defended farms and settlements, and likely the mob mentality will associate that with food and shelter and you may well see waves of unarmed or lightly armed refugees storming the defenders.

These "captured" weapons may be distributed amongst the survivors, or the ammo stocks seriously depleted during a successful defence. The weapons themselves may survive, but calibers commonly associated with auto or semiauto weapons would quickly become rare. Even faster firing weapons such as pump action shotguns might find themselves short or ammo rather quickly.

Sooner or later these weapons would be discarded as useless - a $10,000 automatic shotgun without ammo is nothing more than an unwieldy club, an iron bar is both cheaper and more effective.

Goes to show you don't know much about America and its Gun Owners Leg.


"Calibers commonly associated with auto or semiauto weapons" are pretty much 75% of all ammo sold in the US. Went to a local gunshow in a fairly small town not that far from DC, and I saw more than one vender selling 5.56 by the case, and showing up with 200+ cases and leaving with none. And thats actually *normal*. Out west when I was living in Colorado, I knew of a dozen folks, that do not fall into the gun nut/prepper crowd buy ammo in thousand round lots. And twelve gauge and 9mm can be found in the corner gas station - not to mention in every walmart!

GUn folks here are cheapskates and or paraniod about the gov'ment enough to know that its cheaper to buy ammo in large amounts if they are the sorts to own more than one or two weapons and/or "evil black rifles" - and Class Three folks (THose that own legal belted machine-guns and other, much more bigger things - and do note, the US *does* make the RPG in suburban Chicago, and not for foreign or military sales) are even worse! I get catalogues in the mail all the time that lists 4 or different places to buy all sorts of ammunition in thousand round lots. And not just the NATO stuff either...

In fact, now that I think about it, every block of 7.62 NATO that I used to buy was from Oz Army Stocks that was sold as surplus. Hrm. So, do you all have any left down that way?

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

"Calibers commonly associated with auto or semiauto weapons" are pretty much 75% of all ammo sold in the US. Went to a local gunshow in a fairly small town not that far from DC, and I saw more than one vender selling 5.56 by the case, and showing up with 200+ cases and leaving with none. And thats actually *normal*. Out west when I was living in Colorado, I knew of a dozen folks, that do not fall into the gun nut/prepper crowd buy ammo in thousand round lots. And twelve gauge and 9mm can be found in the corner gas station - not to mention in every walmart!

A thousand rounds is about average consumption for a two-day carbine class these days.

Also, even with shipping charges, it is far, far cheaper to buy a large amount of ammo online than to buy a box or two at a time over the retail counter. I honestly can't remember the last time I bought retail... for 9mm, I'll buy a thousand rounds at a time and re-order when my stock drops below 400 or so.

GUn folks here are cheapskates and or paraniod about the gov'ment enough to know that its cheaper to buy ammo in large amounts if they are the sorts to own more than one or two weapons and/or "evil black rifles" -

And let's not get into the Curio & Relic collector mentality of "I'd better buy a lifetime supply of this obscure caliber now, because who knows when I'll ever be able to find it again?" *whistles innocently and looks at the tin of Romanian-surplus 7.62x25mm he's using as a bookend*

- C.