Canon module omissions - RDF module

[Olefin]

Wanted to start a discussion on various omissions and see if we can come up with what good suggestions would be for filling the holes -

just to be clear I am not talking about corrections or changes to data that is in the modules

I am referring to stuff that was referred to and then left out

For instance

In the RDF module there are the following omissions that are mentioned but then never detailed

1) The USN fleet is said to contain mulitple civilian ships for supporting forces in Iran and Saudi Arabia as well as small patrol craft but they are never detailed as to how many and what they might be

2) A French task force built around the Jean Bart (which I think they meant to say the Joan de Arc) is said to be in the area but never detailed as to composition

3) SOCCENT is not detailed at all - there are ranger and special forces battalions, SEAL TEAMS, etc.. but no idea on how big they are, how many they are, etc..

there are also Special Air and naval forces assigned as well but again they are left out and not detailed

There may be more but thats a nice starting list

So what do people think should have been in the module to flesh out these areas but wasnt there because they were overlooked?

Love to see what kind of ideas people come up with

And again - these would be suggestions for people to use who may play the RDF module

for instance in Kings Ransom there is this detail that gives some detail of what may be missing as to SOCCENT

US TEAM BRAVO-99/5TH SPECIAL FORCES GROUP

Team Bravo-99 is the controlling headquarters for the six
Special Forces A-Teams that operate in the area.

Referee's Note: The A-teams that comprise B-99 are deeply
committed to the people of Iran. In many cases, it is nearly impossible
to distinguish them from the locals. The Green Berets
like it that way.

Leaders: Major Tony Garth is the CO of Bravo-99. Captain
Harry Mikulis is the Operations and Intelligence Officer.
Where Found: B-99 is located in Lordegan. Its component ATeams
can be found throughout the area.

Numbers: The current strength of Bravo-99 is 50 men. Each
A-Team averages six Green Berets each.

Weapons: A mixture of small arms of the world, NATO and
Warsaw Pact weapons predominating.

[pmulcahy11b]

IIRC, SOCCENT didn't exist at the time GDW wrote that module. An omission from our viewpoint, but not at the time.

[Legbreaker]

I prefer to focus on what's in the books, not what's been left out. The gaps leave room for extrapolation in whichever why we like - within reason and as long as it's believable.

[Olefin]

I see your point Legbreaker - and not trying to be nitpicky but instead see what people think may be there more as a way of exploring people's ideas in the forum on what should fill those holes.

For instance there are no support ships for the USN - but no task force goes anywhere without at least one oiler and one repair ship for doing repairs.

And the small patrol boats could be used by someone for an adventure - so like to get a flavor for what people think those could be.

[boogiedowndonovan]

You might want to do a search on Matt Wiser's posts. Outside of the DC group he is probably the best OOB guy (IMHO).

He did some work on an RDF air orbat, and may have done something for the French Navy.

-bdd

[Olefin]

thanks donovan for the information- or should I call you boogie?

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Olefin

I see your point Legbreaker - and not trying to be nitpicky but instead see what people think may be there more as a way of exploring people's ideas in the forum on what should fill those holes.

For instance there are no support ships for the USN - but no task force goes anywhere without at least one oiler and one repair ship for doing repairs.

And the small patrol boats could be used by someone for an adventure - so like to get a flavor for what people think those could be.

That USN support ship might be sitting at the bottom of the Gulf or the Indian Ocean.

[Rainbow Six]

The Royal Navy maintains at least one warship and one Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessel in the Persian Gulf. That might have been reinforced during 1996 on the T2K timeline.

Whether they’re still afloat or not by the end of 2000 is quite another matter.

There's also been some debate about whether there would be a Royal Air Force presence or not. Personally I'm inclined to think that if there is it would be minimal - perhaps a Squadron each of Jaguars and strike Tornados and a flight of Hercules. They'd probably rely on the Americans for air defence - RAF air defence interceptors would be in short supply and needed for home defence.

[James1978]

Originally Posted by Olefin

3) SOCCENT is not detailed at all - there are ranger and special forces battalions, SEAL TEAMS, etc.. but no idea on how big they are, how many they are, etc..

My copy is in storage, but I seem to recall that the V.2 US Vehicle Guide lists manpower for the 75th Infantry Regiment (Ranger). I personally question the entire regiment deploying to CENTCOM, but maybe that's just me.

The SEALS may have been attached to the Amphibious Corps for administrative purposes by 2000.

I'm sure part of the 160th SOAR deployed to CENTCOM, but by 2000 they may have been absorbed into the 101st Air Assault Division.

[James Langham]

An obvious answer may be the creation of extra Bns in Europe (and North America as it is invaded).

Originally Posted by James1978

My copy is in storage, but I seem to recall that the V.2 US Vehicle Guide lists manpower for the 75th Infantry Regiment (Ranger). I personally question the entire regiment deploying to CENTCOM, but maybe that's just me.

The SEALS may have been attached to the Amphibious Corps for administrative purposes by 2000.

I'm sure part of the 160th SOAR deployed to CENTCOM, but by 2000 they may have been absorbed into the 101st Air Assault Division.

[James1978]

Originally Posted by James Langham

An obvious answer may be the creation of extra Bns in Europe (and North America as it is invaded).

In the context of a general mobilization, I don't disagree. In fact, I find it quite likely.

But the RDF Sourcebook makes it sound like the entire pre-war regiment deployed to CENTCOM with all three battalions. That just strikes me as odd since the US entered the war in Europe before CENTCOM was able to deploy in any strength. You'd think at least a battalion would be handy as a raid force for 7th Army early on.

[Olefin]

The support ships have to be there - otherwise those ships wouldnt be operational - and clearly the carrier task force is operational

most likely they were left out by Frank, just like he left out the civilian ships and small patrol boats

alternatively - and as I am in the process of doing - they may be in Kenya so they would be out of range of any Soviet attack - in his notes he had several support ships for the forces there - and I am using that as a guide

he also listed several different Special Forces units who are there as part of what was deployed to CENTCOM originally but then sent to Kenya

may post some of that here to give a flavor of what may be there based on his Kenya notes

[Matt Wiser]

Didn't do anything on the French Navy, so if someone there knows 'em better than I do, have at it!

I'd have one of the Sacramento-class AOEs in the PG: they'd be handy, and would also run down to Kenya on supply runs and would be able to take care of themselves, given the lack of serious threats by 2000.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

I haven't a clue if Diego Garcia is mentioned anywhere to be honest...

From memory, it's been discussed before a while back. I think the consensus was it was stripped of supplies fairly early on, and then pasted by the Soviets in late 1997.

Originally Posted by Olefin

The support ships have to be there - otherwise those ships wouldnt be operational - and clearly the carrier task force is operational

Not at all. There's plenty of ports in the area the ships can dock at and take on fuel, food, ammo, etc. It's not like they're operating over huge distances far away from their fuel supplies.
Also, just because the ships are there, do they really have to be at sea? Doesn't it make more sense given the limited irreplaceable ammunition and crews, for them to only put to sea when actually needed?

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by James1978

In the context of a general mobilization, I don't disagree. In fact, I find it quite likely.

But the RDF Sourcebook makes it sound like the entire pre-war regiment deployed to CENTCOM with all three battalions. That just strikes me as odd since the US entered the war in Europe before CENTCOM was able to deploy in any strength. You'd think at least a battalion would be handy as a raid force for 7th Army early on.

It could be that the 4th Bn remained at Benning School for Boys to train a whole new battalion, in addition to individual replacements.

[James Langham]

I put it down to transport difficulties, after all the logical units to deploy to Europe are heavy units (see notes about difficulties in deploying even light units to the Middle East).

In Europe maybe a Bn was formed from volunteers of units already there? Might be an article in that...

Originally Posted by James1978

In the context of a general mobilization, I don't disagree. In fact, I find it quite likely.

But the RDF Sourcebook makes it sound like the entire pre-war regiment deployed to CENTCOM with all three battalions. That just strikes me as odd since the US entered the war in Europe before CENTCOM was able to deploy in any strength. You'd think at least a battalion would be handy as a raid force for 7th Army early on.