Artillery Delays

[CStock88]

This actually might come up in my campaign, as the PCs are still apart of a functioning infrastructure (at least, so far!). The PCs have been assigned the role of acting as FOs for the rearguard that's in place to cover the retreat of the larger organization they're apart of, due to the fact that normally they are in the role of a scout unit. All other things being equal, and the division's actual FO crews dead by this point, the PCs might be able to pull it off... (of course, it won't be as easy as "just" waiting to call in the fire mission; enemy infantry seeping through the thinly held line, ahoy!)

Artillery. Assuming a company commander requests a fire mission, and assuming that he has, say, a couple of gun tubes allocated to him, and he calls in a fire mission (or the FO calls it in, or whomever)... is it likely that said fire mission will take a long time? And if so, what would a long time possibly be? A half hour? Twenty minutes? I'm kind of wondering to see how much suspense I can fit in, as they watch the five surviving Soviet tanks advance, effectively unopposed, as the rest of the unit's immediately available anti-armor ammunition is already considered expended at this point.

I'm assuming that if the place he wants the shells dropped is pre-planned and approved by the FDIC (or whatever makeshift organization is there to take its place!), the time would be significantly cut down. I'm also assuming that once the artillery makes a fire mission, it's going to pull up stakes and run like hell, probably because their shells are rather limited, not to mention wanting to avoid any return fire. (I actually might have them run out of rounds, forcing the PCs later on to haggle at a friendly depot, or something, to get some more).

[LAW0306]

Hope this helps..
Your call for fire goes to your parent unit (Higher) to there Fire support cordination center. they then make sure its not a friend unit. then they call Arty or your own bn 81mm section then they fire the mission. this takes at most 90 to 120 seconds in war time with a trained unit. so the miniute they call for fire it takes 90 to 120 seconds. now from your company 60 mm mortor's. it's your call to your own FDC (the Mortor secton leader) and he fire's that second. so for your own assets its on time on target.

[CStock88]

Thank you for the quick response! That's rather illuminating, actually. I'm not sure where I got the "half hour" idea from... probably some rather erroneous data, combined with the fact that I don't actually know much about it.

[LAW0306]

mail me any time

[chico20854]

A longer answer is, it depends.

It depends on whether there are reliable comms with the guns. Land lines get run over by trucks. Radios (and field phones) have batteries fail. Radios get jammed or can't reach the guns.

The guns may have other missions they are firing. They may be out of service for maintenance (only a portion of the battery at a time, resulting in fewer guns, but in 2000 many batteries are probably only one gun). They may be out of ammo. The crew may be asleep, possibly after having a little too much ethanol from the fuel tank.

But in the situation you describe, with a company commander allocated fire support and a specific mission, it is likely to be quick, especially if some target areas were pre-registered. (And pre-registering fire is routinely done when the time is available - a map and visual recon of the operational area will likely locate several target areas to have the gunners do the calculations on.)

And as for the group not being the regular FO crew, no big deal. Calling for fire is routinely taught to all officers and all combat-arms NCOs - the US Army considers it a basic military skill. A FO is a luxury that most don't expect to have.

If you want a good idea on how an artillery unit functions in combat, read Raellus's father's book Able on the Way http://www.amazon.com/Able-Way-David...8358771&sr=1-1 . It's about an artillery unit in the Korean War, but precious little has changed between the period described there and my experience in an artillery unit in the 1990s.

[CStock88]

Thank you as well, Chico. The longer answer you gave certainly has some interesting points to use in the future. Also, the book reference is much appreciated! When I get the cash together, I'll certainly give it a good look. I'm always looking for new and cool books to read!

[Jason Weiser]

Originally Posted by chico20854

A longer answer is, it depends.
If you want a good idea on how an artillery unit functions in combat, read Raellus's father's book Able on the Way http://www.amazon.com/Able-Way-David...8358771&sr=1-1 . It's about an artillery unit in the Korean War, but precious little has changed between the period described there and my experience in an artillery unit in the 1990s.

I'd say a lot of those FDC methods..if not older ones would come back into vogue in the latter parts of the Twilight War..my thinking (based on my wargaming research, not on much reality mind you...so anyone with some reality...PLEASE INTERJECT!) is that WWII and WWI methods (preplanned barrages, rolling barrages etc.) might also see a reappearance. I understand response time isn't just the shell flight time..but the time taken for the fire mission to get to the battalion FDC, the FDC to process the request and assign the fire mission?

[CStock88]

Thanks for all the info, guys! I didn't think the thread would generate so many responses, but I'm certainly appreciating it!

[bobcat]

seems time of flight got overlooked. when calling for fire after the FO's request gets forwarded up once the round is fires it will have a time of flight. that may vary from 5-50 seconds depending on the range between the guns and the target.

also while every NCO in the US army(don't know how they do it in others) gets a 1-2 hour class on call for fire in WLC very few even consider it after that. the only exception to that is when the infantry guys wanna try for their EIB. then they come beg us fisters for a class.

granted some units will mandate CFF training regularly for more than just the FO's and some fist teams will invite the troopers they support to ranges and training and the like.

then theres one way in a SHTF situation when the FO can bypass the FDC entirely. its generally refered to as black magic, its rarely taught anymore and half that chapter of the FM is warnings about how the slightest mistake can kill you when useing it. basicly the FO talks to the gun line directly and directly tells them what adjustments to make(while praying that he remembered to carry the one).

[dragoon500ly]

A trick that the artillery use to control the time in flight problem is the 1/3-2/3 rule.

Whenever the front line retreats to within 1/3 of the artillery's range, they relocate the batteries back. If the front lines advance to outside 2/3 of the range, the batteries relocate forward.

Sounds silly, I know, but it minimizes the time in flight across the gun's most useful range.

[bobcat]

yup. so in training(in the sandbox brigade always makes it take longer) it takes about 120 seconds from me finishing my request to me adjusting the first round.

granted back when i was in a good unit(big training budget) my first adjustment was generally fire for effect

[dragoon500ly]

It was always more fun to watch the Air Farce do its CAS mission...it was always an article of faith, among the Army at least, that once you gave them the grid....you pulled back at least 5 kilometers....just in case!

Remember! The Air Force has a 100% accuracy rating...whatever goes up will hit the ground...somewhere!