Twilight: 1983, or Able Archer '83

[Matt Wiser]

Fellas, here's a Washington Post article on the Able Archer '83 exercise, the exercise that Yuri Andropov and the KGB thought might be a cover for a real attack:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...1dc_story.html


Thoughts?

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

Fellas, here's a Washington Post article on the Able Archer '83 exercise, the exercise that Yuri Andropov and the KGB thought might be a cover for a real attack:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...1dc_story.html


Thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14IRDDnEPR4

But seriously given the fact that we got even closer during the CMC (US destroyers were actively prosecuting Soviet subs in the FL Straits, dropping live depth charges on them, one captain had a carrier (Independence?) worked up on a firing solution and the political officer was urging him to hit her with a nuke torp but he backed down), and even later in the cold war (Stanislav Petrov's decision to ignore a computer error and not launch his division of missiles), while AA was one of those "phew!" moments it wasn't the closest nor the most deadly.

I can't remember the name of the general offhand but he told Truman to let him ram a division into East Germany to open the land route to West Berlin and start WWIII if necessary (because the Soviets sure as hell were going to shoot the shit out of a column of armor, regardless of whether or not they were "protecting" a convoy of supply trucks).

Now, the Walkers* may have blown the info about our phone tap in the Sea of Ohktosh but we had one in the north that (thank God) they DIDN'T know about, and monitoring that we found out that far from being ready to nuke us at the drop of a hat the Sovs were terrified of us kicking off WWIII with a decap strike, and after AA they redeployed their SSBNs to respond to it.

...

*=honestly they all should've gotten the death penalty, along with that little fucking weasel Pollard but that's for another discussion...

[Matt Wiser]

Walker didn't betray IVY BELLS: that was Ronald Pelton. The little weasel betrayed one of the best intelligence operations we had all because he was $35K in debt due to gambling. So he went to the KGB. Hope he liked Marion, then ADX Florence....He, like the Walkers, should've been shot.

[aspqrz]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

He, like the Walkers, should've been shot.

So, purely as a matter of proportionality, then, Soviet (or other) nationals working (aka 'spying') for the West should also be shot?

I believe there's generally a reason that such people are often imprisoned - so that, at need, they can be used as bargaining chips to get the release of someone the holding nation may want released. Or to encourage the 'other side' to not do the same in lesser cases, as retaliation ...

Good politics, in that sense only.

If one could be entirely sure that such people would never be needed as bargaining chips and that their execution wouldn't trigger some disproportionate retaliation down the track, executing them is fine ... but can you ever be sure?

In wartime, of course, it's also why they are generally executed, with the blessing of the Hague and Geneva Conventions.

Phil

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

Walker didn't betray IVY BELLS: that was Ronald Pelton. The little weasel betrayed one of the best intelligence operations we had all because he was $35K in debt due to gambling. So he went to the KGB. Hope he liked Marion, then ADX Florence....He, like the Walkers, should've been shot.

Yeah, Pelton. My mistake.

[unkated]

This exercise was the focus of Deutschland 83 (see here).

[TrailerParkJawa]

I think we were very lucky that there was never an actual nuclear exchange either but accident, during a crisis, or a time of mistaken intentions. It is kinda scary really, I was a teen in the 80's and at the time wasn't afraid of a nuclear war because I thought MAD worked.

But it never occurred to me at that time that someone might just screw up.