FLAGS,SYMBOLS,PATCHES,MARKINGS of the 2nd American Civil war and related conflicts

[headquarters]

I saw an interesting question on another forum .Someone asked for examples of symbols and flags ,shoulder patches,markings ,camopatterns etc used by the various sides .

Can anyone give info on this ?

The MilGov flag? What markings on vehicles and aircraft?What differences in uniform compared to CivGov?

What about other factions ? Polish Free States? Separatists in other countries?

Anything is appreciated.

If this already has been gone over I would really like a link to that thread.

[chico20854]

New America wears blue arm bands according to Airlords of the Ozarks.

I would imagine that both Milgov and Civgov, both claiming to be the legitimate governemnt of the US, would be loath to adopt any markings that differed from pre-war or wartime markings. There might be tactical markings that are adopted by local commanders to distinguish between vehicles from Civgov or Milgov troops - a la the "invasion stripes" on allied aircraft for the Normandy invasion or the white stripes the Pact vehicles used during the invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968. I think that would be relatively rare, however, as many encounters between Civgov and Milgov troops would be long-range patrols, most likely on horseback or on foot.

The Polish Free Legion would use the pre-WW II Polish flag with the national coat of arms on it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fl..._Polskiej.PNG). The Communists in Poland basically outlawwed the use of that flag. The cover art of one of the Return to Europe modules (White Eagle?) has Polish partisans flying a red flag with the Polish Eagle on it.

I could see other pre-Communist flags being used throughout Eastern Europe. The Romanian revolution in 1989 featured Romanian flags with the communist coat of arms prominently cut out of the middle.

Uniforms would likely be legacy uniforms. Shoulder patches and tactical markings would be up to the GM...

[Mohoender]

I'll only be talking of US here. Currently no time to think of flags for other countries. I have found a few on the net that are interesting and made up a few for both Civgov and Milgov.

The two flags found on the net are the US-communist flags and the US-native flag.

Of course each state has its own while a new confederate state would certainly adopt one of the confederate flags (whatever version would be nice or even may be several).

For Civgov, I propose a flag combining the US flag with the presidential flag.

For Milgov, I used either the same idea (US flag combined with US army flag) or a flag combining the 1916's presidential flag and the US flag (I like it better just because I find it more fun).

[Mohoender]

Erf, the fact that the US communist flag is bigger than the others was not made on purpose. I was taking care of my daughters and didn't noticed the size of it. It would be more difficult for aircraft markings. Any idea?

[kato13]

I Like there are two Presidential Flags with the eagle changing direction. One looking at the olive branch (peace) and one looking at the Arrows (war)

[headquarters]

but as Chico said ,changing means giving up legitimacy as the continuation gov .But I do like the part about combat markings etc -sounds natural.

I think I might use some of the flags though -nothing spells secession like messing with the flag layout!

[Graebarde]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

I'll only be talking of US here. Currently no time to think of flags for other countries. I have found a few on the net that are interesting and made up a few for both Civgov and Milgov.

The two flags found on the net are the US-communist flags and the US-native flag.

Of course each state has its own while a new confederate state would certainly adopt one of the confederate flags (whatever version would be nice or even may be several).

For Civgov, I propose a flag combining the US flag with the presidential flag.

For Milgov, I used either the same idea (US flag combined with US army flag) or a flag combining the 1916's presidential flag and the US flag (I like it better just because I find it more fun).

WTF did the US-communist flag come from? Sounds like a target got missed somewhere! As for factional flags, the Milgov and Civgov BOTH would fly the stars and stripes. Are we talking something else here? The stars and bars (confederate battle flag) would be local use, non official at all. State flags, ie the Lone Star would be common amoung Texas units I think. And Bonnie Blue is NOT a good choice for NA IMO. Flags are symbols and the reuse of them by others is a bit touchy sometimes.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Graebarde

WTF did the US-communist flag come from? Sounds like a target got missed somewhere! As for factional flags, the Milgov and Civgov BOTH would fly the stars and stripes. Are we talking something else here? The stars and bars (confederate battle flag) would be local use, non official at all. State flags, ie the Lone Star would be common amoung Texas units I think. And Bonnie Blue is NOT a good choice for NA IMO. Flags are symbols and the reuse of them by others is a bit touchy sometimes.

The US-communist flag was off-topic and found on the web. As a result, it doesn't reflect any personnal opinion but seemed interesting for game purpose (may be I had not made myself clear). For Milgov and Civgov I disagree with your idea but what I put on is only a proposal. It seemed to me that it was interesting for both to fly a flag that would be inspired by it.

The confederate flag, however, is not the battle flag but the National State Flag that was used during the last month of the war. This was only a reference to an old post coming from the RPGhost. The author of this post had put forward a Confederate Sovereign State that was interesting.

From what I recall, several states had declared independence and; therefore, would fly their own flag.

In addition, I would imagine each faction flying their own flag in addition to the star and stripes.

I agree for the Bonnie Blue but I couldn't imagine anything else and I'm still waiting for proposals from our American community. By the way it had been raised several time as a sign of independence (1810: Republic of West Florida, 1836: inspiration to first Texas flag, 1860-61: Jackson (Mississippi). This is the kind of statement made by NA and their main group is located in Florida and in the South. As a result, it could be one of their choice; a provocative one, I agree but why not? From what I understand from the game NA is not exactly a group of US patriots fighting for the revival of the USA.

By the way, Grae, I'm not sure about the meaning of your last sentence. This is a game and this is game subject only. If you are getting touchy even on that, I'm not sure to see the point of keeping that community togethere. This time I'm the one complaining, but people getting touchy on everything and anything start to be a itching my back a little too much around here. Give us a break!!

Ok I have done my part but most of these post have nothing to do with personnal, cultural or national attacks. Actually, I don't even think that anyone ever made such attack.

[Legbreaker]

My understanding is that both Civgov and Milgov see themselves as the rightful, legal and only real government of the USA. Therefore, any move away from even symbols of that would be avoided at all costs.

Without the symbols and trappings of the prewar government they are little more than yet another bunch of upstarts trying to forge their own empire. While they use the flag, have the constitution in their posession, declaration of independance, and/or dozens of other items and locations of historical and political significance, they will be viewed by many as legitimate.

The moment they mess with that, they become clowns.

[Graebarde]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

By the way, Grae, I'm not sure about the meaning of your last sentence. This is a game and this is game subject only. If you are getting touchy even on that, I'm not sure to see the point of keeping that community togethere. This time I'm the one complaining, but people getting touchy on everything and anything start to be a itching my back a little too much around here. Give us a break!!

Ok I have done my part but most of these post have nothing to do with personnal, cultural or national attacks. Actually, I don't even think that anyone ever made such attack.

Actually my remark was in game context, or ment to be. As you noted the Bonnie Blue was risen at least three time in the history of the US. But it would still be offensive to some for it to be used, at least if they got an inkling as to what/who was really behind it.

As for any attacks, if I came across that way... oh well that's me, but it was not intended for a personal attack of any sorts. <edit firebrand>

Grae