Automatic Weapons

[ChalkLine]

Should the project use automatic weapons?

The sheer lack of ammunition available seems to counsel against using weapons on 'sprinkle'.

[dragoon500ly]

When I first started playing TMP i questioned a group rebuilding civilization needing military grade weapons. But being a prolific reader of science-fiction and a variety of "After whatever" books, I've come to the conclusion that the Project does indeed need military grade weapons, not only to protect themselves, but the survivors who need protection from those who are willing to do anything and everything to anybody who has what they want.

This is where TM1-1's shortfalls start to read its ugly head. From a logistical standpoint alone, the Project is doomed to failure.

Assigning six small caches, whose humanitarian supplies amount to a few sacks of seed, a box of two of books and tools, simply isn't going to work. In order to provide for any meaningful level of support until survivors can become self-sustaining averages some 25 pounds per person, per day for anywhere up to six months. In other words one person for six months requires 4,500lbs of supplies...if your survivor community numbers, say 300 peple, for the same period of time, we are now looking at 405 tons. What the Project needs are lots of 5-ton and 10-ton trucks, not V-150s!

[cosmicfish]

It should be noted that we are never given any real idea of the extent of Project stocks. We have the caches, but they are meant to be immediate, on-hand supplies that Teams can leverage for use in isolation. Resupply or more extensive supplies would come from places like Starnaman.

I would also question the 25lb per day number - that seems very high, especially considering that the Project was expecting to operate 5 years after a war. The population should have mostly stabilized, the assistance that was needed was in elevating a degraded civilization, not rebuilding from a natural disaster. 6 months in, the US was still going to be far behind where it had been pre-war, but they would be on a path to recovery.

And on the ammunition front, remember that any adversaries were expected to be in worse straits, so the danger of running out of ammo is far less than it would be against a modern military with full logistic support. You're expecting to fight guys with a handful of ammo in their pocket, not a truckload of 7.62. Just showing up with an M249 may be enough to show them they are outgunned and make them withdraw or surrender.

[cosmicfish]

That having been said, there need to be more supply bases with shorter supply lines, and at the least every team should have access to trailers to help them haul supplies as needed. And there should be logistics teams with heavy trucks scattered all over the place or assigned to the supply bases.

[mmartin798]

The only significant hint as to the scope and scale is in the narrative section in 4th edition on page 11 which reads:

"With that in mind, I can tell you a little about
how the Project is organized. We have a main
command base to coordinate all teams, several
regional bases to provide support to teams in
their areas, several supply bases to manage
large stores of equipment for reconstruction
and the individual team bolt-holes scattered
across the country."

Depending on how you interpret "several" will determine how large the supply is and the length of supply lines.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

It should be noted that we are never given any real idea of the extent of Project stocks. We have the caches, but they are meant to be immediate, on-hand supplies that Teams can leverage for use in isolation. Resupply or more extensive supplies would come from places like Starnaman.

I would also question the 25lb per day number - that seems very high, especially considering that the Project was expecting to operate 5 years after a war. The population should have mostly stabilized, the assistance that was needed was in elevating a degraded civilization, not rebuilding from a natural disaster. 6 months in, the US was still going to be far behind where it had been pre-war, but they would be on a path to recovery.

And on the ammunition front, remember that any adversaries were expected to be in worse straits, so the danger of running out of ammo is far less than it would be against a modern military with full logistic support. You're expecting to fight guys with a handful of ammo in their pocket, not a truckload of 7.62. Just showing up with an M249 may be enough to show them they are outgunned and make them withdraw or surrender.

In my campaigns, I go with 6-8 caches, access to 1-3 humanitarian caches, the team's are part of groups, who have access to 3-6 larger resupply caches, backed up 1-2 larger supply bases (such as Delta Base) and then a manner regional base with access to manufacturing. But it has always troubled me that the team caches are always so limited in scope.

The 25 pounds per person per day is a "slice", comprising food, medical, clothing, tools, POL, and other material. It would break down into 4lbs food, 0.75lbs medical supplies etc, etc,etc.

[ChalkLine]

How's this for an idea?

The Hidey-Hole you wake up in has an actual base installed.

- There are 3D Printers and auto-factories built in that can produce ammo, but only slowly. This stops the PCs from going all 'Predator' and spraying trillions of rounds everywhere.
- The Hole woke them up because there is a problem with the fusion plant. It is about to shut down to emergency power that only runs lights, sewerage and air filters for thirty days. After that the plant will be destroyed. The PCs must find caches to fix the plant in that time. The cache file in the Hole EMP-proof computer has corrupted; it knows where they are but not what's in them but there should be fusor supplies.
- The PCs can do with one vehicle if they hook up its fusion pack to the Hole but it only runs emergency power.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by ChalkLine

How's this for an idea?

The Hidey-Hole you wake up in has an actual base installed.

- There are 3D Printers and auto-factories built in that can produce ammo, but only slowly. This stops the PCs from going all 'Predator' and spraying trillions of rounds everywhere.
- The Hole woke them up because there is a problem with the fusion plant. It is about to shut down to emergency power that only runs lights, sewerage and air filters for thirty days. After that the plant will be destroyed. The PCs must find caches to fix the plant in that time. The cache file in the Hole EMP-proof computer has corrupted; it knows where they are but not what's in them but there should be fusor supplies.
- The PCs can do with one vehicle if they hook up its fusion pack to the Hole but it only runs emergency power.

Now this depends on the type of team your players are running. I can see a fixed base for a Science team, and possibly for a MARS team, but not for a Recon team. A Recon team absolutely has to get out and patrol their assigned area, a fixed base becomes a large anchor around their necks, if they have supplies and a limited production capability, they are left with splitting their team and soon will run into the real possibility of losing their base and/or their mobile element.

This is an interesting idea, one well worth looking into!

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by ChalkLine

Should the project use automatic weapons?

The sheer lack of ammunition available seems to counsel against using weapons on 'sprinkle'.

Hi Chalk,

You can argue that Project members would be trained to use semi-auto fire most of the time, at least with rifles, if not submachine guns and support weapons. That might go a ways in cutting ammunition use.

This is addressed in the following section in 4th ed. (italics mine):

Each regional base has a medical bay, with a doctor and
assistants, plus machine shops and a repair bay with
mechanics and electronics technicians.

These bases were also logistics centers, with extensive
amounts of ammunition, parts, and other supplies for
the field teams, plus large stocks of supplies and equipment
to help with reconstruction efforts.

Classic TMP (3rd. ed.) seems to adhere to this pattern. I assume this to mean caches are only for teams that are somehow isolated from the Project supply chain, which is implied by mention of regional supply depots, bases. Specialty (Logistics) teams, etc.

In fact the behind-the-scenes rationale for using common military calibres is that the Project is intended to operate in conjunction with the US and Canadian governments, and this could augment its supplies. Bear in mind as well the Project is intended to provide assistance as a cadre. It is not optimised for a role like that of a PMC or security contractors, and hopefully it is not a military force that would be fighting a war or counter-insurgency and thus be expending a massive amount of ammunition on a regular basis.

My own personal view is that the Morrow Project was perhaps not intended to operate in the aftermath of a full-scale nuclear holocaust where there is little surviving industrial infrastructure. Otherwise it would have been organised much more optimally in terms of concentration of teams in remote areas, etc. Rather, the expected scenario might have been after a limited nuclear exchange, where there is at least something of a surviving industrial base. Bear in mind that in TMP the future timeline has been deliberately and profoundly altered not just once but twice by a powerful time traveler (Bruce Morrow). He wasn't able to control the future, which seemed to change. (This is why he needed a second kick at the can, and look how that turned out!) Who knows what he was originally planning for? But this is just personal speculation.

If the lack of ammo is a problem, ammunition is not difficult to manufacture. It can literally done in your garage! Include a cache with an ammo press with millions of primers, and equip all teams with brass catchers. Problem (mostly) solved!

Tony

[Project_Sardonicus]

Automatic weapons turn relatively straight forward ammo into game changers.

An M2 machine gun loaded with some sort of AP ammunition works as a light anti armour weapon (up to anything short of a tank or APC with extra armour) and can even provide air defence against most air threats the project might face (until you start including attack helicopters etc)

That's before you get it's sheer intimidation factor for almost any group which doesn't have something similar.

An M60 machine gun can do almost the samething in a far smaller and more portable package.

So even if it was only one per team the Project would view automatic weapons as essential.

Also anything more sophisticated is only of use until the ammo runs out.

[ChalkLine]

I can't find any info on the laser weapon in my MP 4th .ed book, can someone give me a clue where it is?

A laser would be a perfect weapon for Projecters, it can charge straight off the fusion pack

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by ChalkLine

I can't find any info on the laser weapon in my MP 4th .ed book, can someone give me a clue where it is?

A laser would be a perfect weapon for Projecters, it can charge straight off the fusion pack

Pg 159. There are two, the Mk 1 and Mk 2 lasers. The Mk 1 requires a tether to the vehicle reactor, but both need an external power source.

[ChalkLine]

Originally Posted by mmartin798

Pg 159. There are two, the Mk 1 and Mk 2 lasers. The Mk 1 requires a tether to the vehicle reactor, but both need an external power source.

Thank you.

Pity, a hand-held laser would fix the Project's ammo problem but those two support weapons