British Army 1990's What might have been...

[Louied]

Toward the end of the 1980's the Army/MOD were developing many concepts and ideas to strengthen the UK's military capacity both in BAOR and for MHD (Military Home Defence). I will attempt on this thread to briefly highlight concepts and plans I have discovered in my research and how IRL would affect a T2K British military. I will start with BAOR tonight....stay tuned.

[Louied]

BAOR

The BAOR emerged from the Wide Horizon/Task Force Era in 1982 (think Pentomic Structure) with a new organization and a new concept of operations. Under Bagnall the BAOR was transformed, by 1989 the key points were:
1) NORTHAG would be fought as an Army Group, formations would be used in whatever Corps sector was needed, ie if the Belgians needed additional tanks a German or British Armd Bde would reinforce it.
2) 1 BR Corps would fight with 1 & 4 Armd Divs in the FEBA between the IGB and the Weser. 3 Armd Div would be a counterstroke force for the Corps or NORTHAG. 2 Inf Div would guard the Corps Rear Area, it also provide troops (24 Airmobile or 15 Inf Bde) to reinforce the FEBA.

The Defence of the Corps area was specifically referred to, in numerous documents, as "The Goodwood Defence" ie Saxon equipped Inf and TA Inf would hold Key terrain or key urban areas (the Parachute Regt Group was intended to hold Hildesheim) with literally almost every MILAN FP in the Army. Meanwhile the Armd Bdes would fight a battle of movement. The object was to attrit the 1st echelon down to the point that a counterattack by several, in-theatre, NORTHAG Divs would shatter it and the 2nd Echelon entering the battle (reinforced by III U.S. Corps if it had made it over. Several apparently, from what I am told, several field exercises had to be called early because the simulated counterattack had taken formations over the exercises IGB!

Now for T2k purposes.......BAOR throughout the 1980's was short of men AND 155mm ammo. Though prospects for equipment were excellent, Challenger 2 coming on line and the complete rollout of Warrior, MLRS, and AS-90 was to be complete in 1994-95, ammo was still a problem and manpower was forecasted to take a dip in the 1990's (Manning and Recruitment in the Lean Years of the Nineties...The MARILYN Report addressed this and tried to find ways to mitigate it). The war in China would take care of the ammo problems, IMHO, as the backstory provides us with (much like now in the Ukraine) ramping up production and delivery of Western military hardware to China to bleed the Soviets. The manpower problems can be addressed with what actually happened IRL, the demographic trough expected in the UK did not really happen due to immigration from Eastern Europe after the fall of the Wall/Soviet Union. I think we can postulate that the Soviet crackdown in 1989 that resulted in the Cold War continuing saw a flood of refugees to the West before order was restored to the Iron Curtain. We can also tap into the almost limitless supply of Gurkhas, IRL several Bns were reinforced by Gurkha Coys to make up strength.

Every Commander of BAOR/1 Br Corps lamented that they needed an additional Armd Bde and or an Inf Bde. Prior to 19 Inf Bde being assigned to 4 Armd Div it had a mission to hold the Water Sandwich, the land to the South of Hannover and to the west of Hildesheim, in order for 7 Armd Bde to refurbish after the Covering Force Battle and to prevent Hannover from being attacked from the South.
to be continued.......

[Ewan]

A really good and interesting read and looking forward to more.

[chico20854]

Thanks for this effort! I'm looking forward to more!

[Raellus]

Interesting stuff, Louied. Keep it coming.

I'm curious about one particular line:

Originally Posted by Louied

We can also tap into the almost limitless supply of Gurkhas, IRL several Bns were reinforced by Gurkha Coys to make up strength.

Although I'm a huge Gurkha fan (thanks, Pops!), and would love a reason to encounter more of them in T2k Europe, I don't see them as an infinite (or even particularly abundant) military manpower pool. Can you explain/justify that bit about Gurkha's being a "limitless supply"?

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[Louied]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Interesting stuff, Louied. Keep it coming.

I'm curious about one particular line:



Although I'm a huge Gurkha fan (thanks, Pops!), and would love a reason to encounter more of them in T2k Europe, I don't see them as an infinite (or even particularly abundant) military manpower pool. Can you explain/justify that bit about Gurkha's being a "limitless supply"?

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First off I would like to apologize to everyone, I was half falling asleep typing my entry last night and I realized there are alot of typos and I feel I could of described things better.....sometimes I hit a wall at night in my old age....I will clean it up.

Now, as for the Gurkhas, I was going to do a separate entry for them, however to quickly answer your Raellus's question:

- I was slightly exaggerating to make a point

- Gurkha Bns, IRL, were always larger than regular British Bns. They had four full Rifle Coys besides the HQ & Sp Coys, establishment was 927 Offrs & ORs

-between 1989 and 2002 Gurkha Selection attracted, annually, anywhere between 25,000- 32,000 prospects who appeared at the Gurkha Depot in Nepal. Usually only 1% of that total was selected to be part of the British Army Gurkhas in peacetime. In a build up to war/wartime I think we can say that a larger percentage would have been inducted.

I will be back tonight with more BAOR, and eventually Gurkhas.

[Rainbow Six]

Louie, thanks for sharing this.

Trying to come up with a workable T2K orbat for the British Army has always been a challenge in my experience and often ends up being a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul, particularly if one tries to pay lipservice to the mess that is the canon British Army order of battle (or at least Regular Army order of battle).

I do have some reservations about your suggestion to boost numbers with Gurkhas and Eastern European immigrants. I guess I don't see the latter providing the numbers required to make good any shortfalls. In the case of the former I completely agree that there would be a steady stream of potential recruits available but I see large scale recruitment of additional Gurkhas being a potential political issue - there's always been the argument that Gurkhas are mercenaries (for the record they're not. Period) and the larger the numbers the stronger I think that narrative becomes. Unless you're talking about only raising Gurkha incremental Companies to back fill British Battalions so the same numbers are recruited but they're more spread out so not so noticeable...

Another potential solution is incremental companies drawn from areas where recruitment was strong - there's a passage in (I think) Sir Richard Dannatt's autobiography where he discusses how during his time with the Green Howards they put an emphasis on recruiting to the point where they were the most overstrength Battalion in the entire Army so 'loaned out' a Company to another Battalion. if that could be replicated Army wide (possibly with an increase in salary / benefits to make an Army career more attractive) that could go some way to resolving manpower issues (if it's not Dannatt's book it's Mike Jackson's).

Of course, all of these solutions come at a cost, which brings us back to the political aspect and is why I don't see any major efforts to do anything about lack of manpower until we're almost at the eve of War (possibly the start of the Sino - Soviet War could be the catalyst, in the same way that the Ukraine War prompted Germany to increase defence spending).

Another solution is attempts to achieve peace in Northern Ireland earlier (bearing in mind the equivalent of a Division of Infantry were usually in NI at any given point in time) but that gets into a much bigger picture.

I can't wait for the home defence part...that's one circle that I could never really square.

[Louied]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Louie, thanks for sharing this.

Trying to come up with a workable T2K orbat for the British Army has always been a challenge in my experience and often ends up being a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul, particularly if one tries to pay lip service to the mess that is the canon British Army order of battle (or at least Regular Army order of battle).

I agree, but I can't fault the developers, I have almost every book from the 1980's and a fair few U.S. Army/Rand/CIA papers that had anything to do with the British Military of the time....none get it exactly correct. I didn't realize this until I started buying Regimental Journals, they gave me clues that I used to start FOI requests. Between documents from Kew
and the FOI answers I have discovered a whole new level of information.

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

I do have some reservations about your suggestion to boost numbers with Gurkhas and Eastern European immigrants. I guess I don't see the latter providing the numbers required to make good any shortfalls. In the case of the former I completely agree that there would be a steady stream of potential recruits available but I see large scale recruitment of additional Gurkhas being a potential political issue - there's always been the argument that Gurkhas are mercenaries (for the record they're not. Period) and the larger the numbers the stronger I think that narrative becomes. Unless you're talking about only raising Gurkha incremental Companies to back fill British Battalions so the same numbers are recruited but they're more spread out so not so noticeable...

Rainbow, I'm not suggesting wholescale recruitment of Gurkhas, but according to SGTTUK, when the Sino-Soviet War started in August 1995 and the Army went on full alert, I can see the return of all the 2nd Bns (which would give us eight), perhaps a Para Bn or Coy, and full Engr, Logs, & Signal Regts/Sqns. Additionally perhaps an artillery regt. Basically all this had existed prior to 1969 and the artillery regt was planned but the Malayan Emergency put it into abeyance.

I am thinking along the lines of some Bns possibly getting Gurkha Incremental Coys.

As for the Eastern Europeans, I was just trying to point out that IRL the Demographic Trough that was expected did not occur because of this immigration. Though it did not occur I don't think it would have boosted numbers in any meaningful way. For T2K purposes I would say that it just let the Army soldier on without having to make any cuts.

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Another potential solution is incremental companies drawn from areas where recruitment was strong - there's a passage in (I think) Sir Richard Dannatt's autobiography where he discusses how during his time with the Green Howards they put an emphasis on recruiting to the point where they were the most overstrength Battalion in the entire Army so 'loaned out' a Company to another Battalion. if that could be replicated Army wide (possibly with an increase in salary / benefits to make an Army career more attractive) that could go some way to resolving manpower issues (if it's not Dannatt's book it's Mike Jackson's).

Yes, the Green Howards put so much effort into recruitment (each Regt had a Recruiting Team, even though evrryone was trained at The King's Div Depot) that they were able to form an additional (fourth) Rifle Coy in 1990/91. I agree, if replicated Army wide Regts such as the Queen's, which was in a parlous state even though it had three Bns, could be rectified.

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Of course, all of these solutions come at a cost, which brings us back to the political aspect and is why I don't see any major efforts to do anything about lack of manpower until we're almost at the eve of War (possibly the start of the Sino - Soviet War could be the catalyst, in the same way that the Ukraine War prompted Germany to increase defence spending).

I agree, assume that during the August-October 1995 alert the UKCICC looks at what they need and begins to implement modest changes before November 1996.

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Another solution is attempts to achieve peace in Northern Ireland earlier (bearing in mind the equivalent of a Division of Infantry were usually in NI at any given point in time) but that gets into a much bigger picture.

I see NI being the same as it was IRL

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

I can't wait for the home defence part...that's one circle that I could never really square.

Slowly working my way there.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Louied

-between 1989 and 2002 Gurkha Selection attracted, annually, anywhere between 25,000- 32,000 prospects who appeared at the Gurkha Depot in Nepal. Usually only 1% of that total was selected to be part of the British Army Gurkhas in peacetime. In a build up to war/wartime I think we can say that a larger percentage would have been inducted.

Wow. I wasn't aware that the number of potential recruits was so large. Thanks for that.

I wonder if increasing recruitment in the run up to war would in some ways "water down" the quality, or at least elite reputation, of Gurkha formations in the British Army. I imagine training would need to be abbreviated somewhat. I also wonder if the war in China would somehow delay or disrupt the pipeline.

As for E. Europeans, I can see NATO implementing a system similar to that developed by the Allies in WW2. Exiles from Poland, Norway, the Netherlands, et al were organized into "national" formations, equipped by the Brits or Americans, and fought under British divisional (and/or above) command- probably the most famous example being the 1st Independent Parachute Brigade (Poland).

This thread presents some ideas for how to incorporate foreign troops into NATO armies. See Canadian Army's Msg #17, in particular.

https://forum.juhlin.com/showthread....foreign+legion


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