OT: India Pakistan air battle

[LoneCollector1987]

A few days ago there was a massive air battle between India (using Rafale jets) and Pakistan (using chinese J-10) and according to all news three Rafale were shot down with no losses on the Pakistan side.

https://www.newsweek.com/india-pakis...arfare-2070199

Missiles were exchanged at distances of more than 100 miles and close air combat seems to be a thing of the past.

https://www.msn.com/de-de/nachrichte...d=BingNewsSerp
This german article says that the chinese combat cloud (all missiles, jets exchange continously data) is far superior to the western systems.

There is a showfight between Pakistan/ China and Quatari fighters mentioned were the Eurofighters lost 9:0.

So, what does that mean for the future?

Will we accept that we have to be better and learn?

While there are decoy missiles, will their use increase and how do we balance the use of decoy missiles and Air to air missiles in the payload of fighters?
And in stealth fighters, who carry their missiles inside and therefore carry less missiles, will this negatively impact their usefulness?

[ToughOmbres]

Originally Posted by LoneCollector1987

A few days ago there was a massive air battle between India (using Rafale jets) and Pakistan (using chinese J-10) and according to all news three Rafale were shot down with no losses on the Pakistan side.

https://www.newsweek.com/india-pakis...arfare-2070199

Missiles were exchanged at distances of more than 100 miles and close air combat seems to be a thing of the past.

https://www.msn.com/de-de/nachrichte...d=BingNewsSerp
This german article says that the chinese combat cloud (all missiles, jets exchange continously data) is far superior to the western systems.

There is a showfight between Pakistan/ China and Quatari fighters mentioned were the Eurofighters lost 9:0.

So, what does that mean for the future?

Will we accept that we have to be better and learn?

While there are decoy missiles, will their use increase and how do we balance the use of decoy missiles and Air to air missiles in the payload of fighters?
And in stealth fighters, who carry their missiles inside and therefore carry less missiles, will this negatively impact their usefulness?

In the near-term manned aircraft supplemented in a few years with AI synched "wingmen" that either mirror their human-piloted partner or are remotely piloted is one possibility.

Remotely piloted aircraft also in the near term with smaller "wingmen".

In the long run-anybody's guess. Except my suspicion is it will be largely dominated by smaller platforms that are largely autonomous.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by LoneCollector1987

So, what does that mean for the future?

Will we accept that we have to be better and learn?

While there are decoy missiles, will their use increase and how do we balance the use of decoy missiles and Air to air missiles in the payload of fighters?
And in stealth fighters, who carry their missiles inside and therefore carry less missiles, will this negatively impact their usefulness?

Warzone reported that two Rafales and one SU-27 were confirmed shot down, probably by Pakistani fighters (type unknown, but suspected to be Chinese-made Chengdu J-10s) firing Chinese-made medium-range active homing AAMs, but accident, SAMs, and friendly fire remain possible causes. No Pakistani combat losses in the air have been confirmed, AFAIK. At least one of those Chinese AAMs was recovered, relatively intact, on the ground in India (so it will most likely end up in the USA, providing intel that will help develop countermeasures). If the Pakistanis did indeed shoot down the Indian fighters, it shows growth of the PAF, which back in 2011 couldn't intercept the US helicopters that conducted Operation Geronimo. If the Pakistanis used Chinese tech to shoot down the Indian Rafales, it shows how far the Chinese have come technologically.

https://www.twz.comlosses ofir/claims-swirls-as-india-and-pakistan-assess-results-of-latest-conflict

I think pure UAVs, remotely controlled by human operators with onboard AI assistance- are the next logical iteration in combat aircraft. I think the US air arms are a bit stubborn in hanging on to the idea of manned aircraft (new types, like the F-47 are actively in development)- kind of the like navies in the 1930s were still spending the majority of their new-build ship budgets on battleships and downplaying the significance of the relatively new fleet aircraft carrier. UAVs can pull more Gs, don't need years of expensive training, and/or require telegrams to widows and orphans if they get shot down.

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