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YaATW2KT: The Soviet's Aleutian Front
The Soviet Invasion of Alaska (and Canada) in the original TW2K canon is one of my favorite aspects of the Twilight War.
Why? Mostly because it's one of the few spots you can get a real Red Dawn moment or two: The Red Army on US soil! Is it very likely as proposed in the original material? Um... no. Pretty much impossible actually. In the cannon, the Sovs hit sometime in the summer of 1997, before the limited strategic nuclear exchange. This is a USSR that has been fighting the PRC for two years, the US for one year... and the Pacific fleet never had much sea-lift capacity to begin with. Hell, the Soviet Navy never had much sealift capacity anywhere. More problems include: the unlikely idea that soviet airborne would seize the area around Seward and the Arctic Mechanize units would cross so much of the Alaskan wilderness to get to Fairbanks and Anchorage. I mean, there are no roads out there and the Reds would have to cross hundreds of miles of wilderness... which alternates between bug-infested swamp in the summer and frozen waste in the winter. How are they supposed to manage that with a supply chain that starts somewhere down around Vladivostok? Not counting the too-narrow trans-Siberian railroad before even getting to Vladivostok, the rest of that supply chain would be by sea. There are no rail lines or roads connecting the settlements of the Soviet North-east. The US Fleet out in the Atlantic might be mauled, but the fleet in the pacific would have only been fighting the sov's small Pacific Fleet with the aid of the PRC navy and the Japanese Self Defense forces. The Soviet Pacific fleet would have been squashed and in no position to execute an invasion... even if the Sovs just piled as many men as possible onto merchant ships, the US Navy and Naval Aviation would have slaughtered them in the water before they could make landfall at Anchorage. ... not to mention that most of the units involved in the canon invasion are third and forth line troops... but perhaps that explains why so many defected to NATO or went marauder. Anyways... I WANT the soviets to invade Alaska. Why? Because it's fun! I want "Ruskies" on my doorstep, dammit! I want some Red Dawn action! If such an invasion is impossible as written, how do we fix it? What events could likely take place that would render a Soviet Alaskan invasion less technically (and logistically) implausible? Well, I've got two things in my Alternate Timeline that could make the invasion of Alaska (and British Columbia) more plausible. 1) The Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China are not at war... In fact, there is a Sino-Soviet alliance. This provides two benefits to the Soviet invader: A) No Soviet Far Eastern divisions will be getting chewed up in the Manchurian meat-grinder. Plenty will be send into Central Asia, Iran and Europe, but this will still leave a great deal more Soviet hardware (and frontline troops) to throw at the problem of invading Alaska. More Soviet Divisions attacking means more heroic stands against incredible odds by US and Canadian forces. B) The combined Sino-Soviet fleet is giving the US Pacific Fleet a hard time... not because the Chinese are storming the beaches of Oahu... but because large amounts of the US fleet is pinned down trying to keep South Korea from being blockaded AND because the Chinese are going all-out to take Taiwan. With the US Army tied down in Korea, the Persian Gulf and Europe, defending Taiwan falls to the US Navy. Overburdened with this Herculean task, perhaps attrition in the Pacific has led to a situation where, combined with a massive intelligence failure (which we in the US seem prone to now and again) a Soviet sea-borne invasion of the Alaskan coast could be achieved. 2) I've moved the Invasion of Alaska back until the winter after the Soviet Thanksgiving Day sneak attack. That way the US is reeling from the attack and the Soviets were ready for the US counter-attack. The window of vulnerability caused by the attacks might also give the Soviets a leg up on pulling off the invasion. I know that this subject has been addressed before in other threads, but if you have already addressed this subject, could you please do so again, even if you just cut and past your earlier comments, or even comments by others that you think are most pertinent to the subject. A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing |
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We have had extensive discussions on this topic before. I grabbed this link from the thread map.
http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=178
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"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli |
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I posted my thoughts on a Soviet Sino alliance years ago, I'll dig it up. But in most of my campaigns where it is applicable I include it. I wrote up a campaign where the PCs are part of a drive into the Chinese mainland a token force to support the Taiwaneese who are also supporting a Free Chinese Army, as I put China in a Civil War where elelments of its society want to break free from Communism but the old guard wants to regain control, toss in some natual disaster which they have often enough, and economic disaster which can ferment alot of discord and some of their plans that uproot or disenfranchise the rural population and you can whip up a civil war fairly quickly, I have Taiwanese helping sew the seeds of discord of course and then making a drive to establish a foothold on the mainlaind and reclaim their homeland.
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"God bless America, the land of the free, but only so long as it remains the home of the brave." |
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I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com |
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I think that you get the soviet supply line wrong. Of course the main supply bases are Vladivostok and Komsomolsk-na-Amure but you forget about Magadan.
In addition, the entire Kamchatka and most of the soviet area near Alaska was a military zone at the time, possibly allowing them an alternate supply line to start the invasion. Yes the invasion is conducted by third line units but it is spearheaded by a small elite force of artic and naval units, perfectly suited for the job. The soviets might have had prewar plans to invade Alaska. Of course, I agree with what you say about the navy but IMO the russians are using mostly large air cushion vehicles and if these operate under winter condition they simply cannot be intercepted by the US Navy. Another point comes from the fact that the allies underestimate the soviets. The attack is entirely unexpected and probably considered impossible: too few units are deployed to meet that threat. In addtion, they arrive late. At last, I don't consider that the soviet were concerned with long term supply. This attack is to succeed or fail and the units would have to survive mostly on supplies found in the conquered area most like the Rundstedt offensive in the Ardennes (1944). Their only concern would be ammunitions. |
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Or does the soviet deployment to isolated places like Queen Charlotte Island and Juneau just seem ridiculous? A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing |
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I'm positive that they did. I mean, otherwise someone at the Red Army is totally slacking off. At some point wasn't there some plan of Stalin's in the late '40s or early '50s to invade across the Bering Sea? Something like 1/2 million men were supposed to be stationed in the Chukotski Peninsula? A plan like that sounds miserable for the men and bit naive of Stalin. Maybe their rusty old supplies, still left in storage from the Korean War era, are scrounged up and used for the Twilight War invasion? Quote:
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And considering how "gentle" the Red Army is at the best of times, I can't imagine their "inventory and requisition" activities among the Alaskan and Canadian locals are going to win them any friends. In fact, if I move the invasion back to the winter of 1997-1998, then much of the fuel and food the commandeer is going to result in locals starving and freezing during the winter. That's going to breed some very bitter, determined partisans... and when you consider how well armed Alaska is as a state... the Mujahedeen won't have nothing on Alaska's Sourdoughs. So, do you have any other suggestions as to how the invasion's plausibility can be raised? A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing |
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None at all; the main objections are given in the thread that was from the previous board. While the Soviets may have had plans for an Alaska invasion, it's highly unlikely that those plans could've been implemented. Even if Stalin told his planners to draw up a plan for an invasion of Alaska, I'll bet they came up with one just to please the dictator and keep their asses out of a Gulag, even if the planners knew that any Soviet invasion of Alaska was practically impossible. Lack of basing infrastructure in the Soviet Far East (and those bases can be hit by carrier air), dependence on sea and air supply (which can be interdicted), few roads in Alaska, and U.S. Air and Naval power that would make the entire adventure a very bloody mess, and result in Soviet defeat. Even if some airborne and amphibious forces do get into Alaska successfully, without resupply of ammo and fuel, they're not going anywhere, and U.S. forces would eventually mop them up.
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Treat everyone you meet with kindness and respect, but always have a plan to kill them. Old USMC Adage |
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I agree with everything you are saying but as you said, the idea is mainly fun. Nevertheless, I still think that several of the difficulties can be overcome.
First, I always assume that the attack took place in winter in order to negate the naval threat. The other reason being the one you gave: the Soviet Pacific Fleet lay at the bottom of the sea. Second, numerous teams could have been landed or shipped long before the attack to ease the troops progression. I agree that Magadan is fairly remote but it's not only linked by road, it is also linked to the Transiberian. I agree that these forces are cut from industrial centers but, by the time of the attack, most of these are gone anyway. Stockpiles might not be that old because the soviet always had a tendency to maintain well equipped units in the far east regions. In addition, this has always been the trial area for new equipments. The first units to be equipped with BMP-3 and T-80 were located there. At last I forgot about one supply line which proved to be very important in past war for Russia (WW2). It is also largely neglected by everyone else: it is the Northern Sea Route. We talked about it with Jester who ran an interesting campaign around this (saddly I had no time to play it). This was traveled already in the early 1900's and opened by the Russian as early as the 1930's. As a result, every small harbor on the northern soviet coast is designed to support convoys going that way. As a matter of fact, even to these days, Russia remains the only country with the capability to maintain that route open. http://athropolis.com/arctic-facts/fact-nepass.htm Even during the cold war, US had no real way to stop that traffic as it had too few icebreakers. The soviets, however, had about 10 nuclear icebreakers and several dozen regular ones. In addition, given the time of the supposed landing, they would not have to fear much from airstrike. With the failure of the NATO attack on Murmansk, this route will remain open and it is doubtful that NATO destroyed these small unimportant fishing ports. |
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In addition, the West always underestimated the soviets supply capability there which is IMO insane. Just as a reminder, a large part of the Russian factories were transfered to Siberia in 1941 after the Nazi attack. That transfer took place in the worse of time and these factories were fully back in line only in a matter of month. Whatever your opinion on the USSR, this is outstanding and remain outstanding. The Northern Sea Route was also always important. During WW2 it was very active and instrumental in soviet victory. |
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Would anyone else find it useful if I were to just add a post filled with links to earlier discussions of this topic? A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing |
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"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli Last edited by Targan; 08-30-2009 at 04:48 AM. |
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I have a couple of ideas of how the invasion of Canada including a pitch battle at Beaver Creek in the Yukon
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I will not hide. I will not be deterred nor will I be intimidated from my performing my duty, I am a Canadian Soldier. |
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In order to affect an effective invasion of Alaska, the Soviets would have to have certain things happen in advance. A majority of the based forces in Fairbanks and Anchorage would have to be shipped overseas to some place. Without doing that, you've got entirely too much American forces in Alaska. They be able to completely stymie any invasion attempt. You know that addage that they chanted back during the D-Day amphibious invasion? "If the Allies get stopped on the beaches, the invasion fails." Well the same thing would apply to a Soviet invasion of Alaska.
Once certain things happened, and assuming the Soviets were desperate enough and desired to "save a nuke" and use men instead, they could invade. Key places they'd need to take out: Fairbanks Anchorage area (yes, the entire area, including the Matanuska valley) Kodiak Island (at least the major Coast Guard station there) isolate the Seward Peninsula Valdez Tok Outside of Alaska, they'd need to take: Whitehorse, Yukon Territories Prince Rupert, British Columbia Key choke points, for either side: Whittier Highway coming out of Whittier and going into Anchorage. Can basically seal off the entire Seward Peninsula this way. Highway 2 (The Al-Can) that runs from Beaver Creek, Yukon Territory to Tok, Alaska. (Yes, there's an even smaller junction a bit east of Tok called Tetlin Junction that also controls a very rough, dirt road called State Highway 5 that leads up to Chicken, Eagle, and across the border to Dawson, Yukon Territories and eventually Stewart Crossing, Yukon Territories. Take and hold these and you seal the main body of Alaska off by land. Haines Junction - Whitehorse (both in Yukon Territories). They control the roads that lead out of Southeast Alaska. The rather meager forces in Southeast Alaska would have a beast of a time fighting their way out overland if those roads were taken and held by the Soviets. Neutralize the airfields at Yakutat and Cordova. They're not military airfields, but they are large and were once WW2 military airfields. No real roads going out of those places to anywhere worthwhile in Alaska, but those airfields could be a very, very good staging point for American forces to get back into Alaska by air. If the Soviets can neutralize these areas, and keep them neutralized, they won't have to worry about them. Prudhoe Bay. People seem to think if you take the pipeline you control the oil. Well, if Prudhoe Bay stops pumping the oil, the only thing you've got further down is an empty pipeline. Worthless. So if you're going in to get crude oil (not really going to be able to refine much of this at all in Alaska, no major refineries there), you'll need both Prudhoe Bay and key points along the Alaska Pipeline. Control the Inside Passage. If you take Prince Rupert and can get the Inside Passage mined, you can cut off supplies to the entire Southeast Panhandle of Alaska. They go into starvation and lack of fuel and eventually surrender. Don't have to throw any military into that mess. Any Soviet forces venturing into Southeast Alaska is likely going to be chewed up...by a couple squads of Army Reservists and the wildlife/insect like/plant life. Now getting all of this done in an expedient time is another task, and probably the most difficult. Gotta start in winter when the ground is hard. Doing it in summer is suicide. Get in, take the areas, set up defenses and hope that the Americas are foolish and attack in summer. (Which they won't, because the Alaska National Guard would tell them what to do with themselves if they were ordered to attack in summer). So winter offenses only. Hunker down and defend in summer and scrounge, scrounge, forage and scrounge...because you'll need it. It would suck to be the Soviet forces stationed in Fairbanks. Ugh! Cold as you've probably never seen it. Hopefully this helps a little. |
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Orlyonoks
For any invasion planned by the Russians, an interesting tool would be the Orlyonoks. Several had been built (5) prior to the fall of the USSR and three are reported in service as late as 1993. In the event of continuous cold war and Twilight War more would have been built, giving the russian the hability to carry out fast small scale attack in several areas (150 men and 2 vehicles: BMP, BTR or PT-76).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-90_Orlyonok In addition, I have no doubt that the missile launcher version would have seen production as well (at least limited) and could have constituted a bad surprise for NATO on several occasions. A fast attack craft moving at 400mph and capable of firing 6 anti-ship missiles to its target is a threat (IMO). They could have played an interesting role in the NATO defeat in the Far North. Last edited by Mohoender; 09-03-2009 at 03:40 AM. |
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If Japan could occupy some islands in the Aleutian chain in 1942-43, I think the Russians could do at least as much, possibly island-hopping their way to Anchorage ...
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Nevertheless, your point is well taken. If the Japanese can get away with dumping troops into the Aleutian Islands, maybe it's no so preposterous that the Soviets (given some plausible alternate history) could occupy the coastal areas of Alaska or even British Columbia. Although for my money the Soviets would more likely end up strung out along the Can-Am Highway through B.C, the Yukon and south-eastern Alaska than places like the Queen Charlotte and Vancouver Islands. Ah well, the canon does have it's warts... ...but that's sort of why this site exists. To exchange ideas so that we can smooth out those warts. A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing |
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But America's naval and air assets will need to have been catastrophically degraded prior to the invasion. Otherwise the Soviet invasion will be drowned in the arctic waters before even seeing land. Quote:
And that's a really good list of strategic choke points. I think that is going to be the dominant principal in any war in Alaska. Control of naval access and then control of key choke points on land. "Controlling" huge areas of Alaskan wilderness is utterly pointless and suicidal for either side. I don't see how the Sovs can effectively do this. Even if the Sovs have the naval forces to get the invasion in. and keep the logistical links open for a period of time, I really can't imagine them being able to project naval and air assets into the Inside Passage. The best the Sovs could probably manage would be to lay some mines down there after maybe seizing Juneau by sea. Otherwise the US could use Juneau to project naval power and air power north to raid Soviet logistical links back to Siberia. Quote:
Thank you Grimace. I have read your comments in earlier threads on the subject of the Twilight War in Alaska and always found them enlightening. A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing |
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Glad I could help out a bit. Any other questions you have relating to Alaska I'll be glad to offer what I know or what I've discussed with others.
One of my good friends up there belonged to the Alaska National Guard. He was an "old fart" running around doing stuff that was but a shadow of what he used to do. I found out, after a little while, a glimpse of what he used to do when I found a plaque he had. SSgt...his name.... sitting above his name, the badge with the triple lightning bolts and sword of the Green Beret. So he'd done quite a bit in his younger years. I picked his brain quite a bit on an invasion of Alaska. We didn't deal so much with the logistics of getting the enemy forces OVER to Alaska. It was mainly focused on what they would do once they got here...what they would HAVE to do to stay here and what they should refrain from doing. Taking Juneau (the capital city of Alaska) was one of those things that they should refrain from doing. Isolating and starving it is so much easier to do than taking and holding it. |
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When my group played it we used a sort of The Eagel Has Landed type scenario. ( The movie with Michael Cain, were the Fuhrer decides on a whim at one meeting he wants Churchill captured. Himmler assigns the plan to some Colonel who almost makes it happen but Hitler didn't really mean it ..or something like that and the Colonel gets shot)
Basically some aging senile politbeureau member wants the war taken to the Americans, A poor unlucky General in the Far East is given the mission, finds every transport / tramp steamer available with as much supplies as they can hold , gathers up the remnents and scrappings fron the Chinses front and dumps them in Alaska without any chance of resupply or reinforcement. Only the fact that US and Canadian troops are thin on the ground allows even a minimal success in landing. The Soviet troops are then left to hold what the can , most going into cantonments while a few head south in hopes of either of warmer areas or a way home ( Going Home Ivan style ?) You end up with troops in the same locations etc but the units that were labelled Divisions were never more than regimental in size with tank divisions maybe being nothing more than a battalion of tanks to begin with etc. Then of course when the old fools in Moscow find out what happened the shoot the General. |
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