Europeans in America (Moved from Archive)

[kato13]

DeaconR 11-21-2005, 07:50 PM Someone, firewalker i think, just raised this point: one way you can have Europeans in the USA in the game is to have camp followers, as it were or war brides. Another way might be Europeans who are part of the officer exchange program and have married Americans.

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Matt Wiser 11-21-2005, 07:59 PM There's another possiblity: Soviet deserters from Division Cuba (likely in Texas only), or from the Divisions that made the push from Alaska to the Pacific NW. Throw in former Soviet/Pact POWs shipped from Europe and the PG to

CONUS, as well. Add the fact that many of the U.S. forces in Europe have

done some local recruiting, and I'd bet that those folks may have found a home in the division or ACR that recruited them, so when Operation OMEGA

is executed, many of those Europeans in American units go with the unit back to the U.S.

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Blackrider 11-21-2005, 08:47 PM there was a artical in Challange about a group of Warsaw Pact POWs that had escaped the remains of the camp and now were trapped in the US, the location for the adventure was in New Jersey. their leader was making plains to try to contact soviet subs that are rumored to be patrolling off shore (we know its bogus but it does give his men hope)


there is also the possiblities of naval crews of German and british ships, whos ships were sunk off the coast and were stuck here after the nuclear exchange.


just some ideas...

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Targan 11-21-2005, 11:35 PM The longest-serving European NPC in my current campaign is a Ukranian cavalryman, Cpl Mikhael Josef Jortz, who was captured by the party after they discovered his section-sized unit in a farmhouse in eastern Poland and ambushed it. Jortz's family had been wiped out in a nuke strike and he was on the verge of deserting anyway, and the party grew to like the cut of his jib, so to speak, so when Jortz showed aptitude in driving and repairing various WarPac vehicles the party salvaged during their travels, they changed his status from POW to recruit. Like Sam Neil's character in Hunt For Red October, Jortz had fantasized about having a ranch in the USA. Sadly, once he arrived in America he realised his dream might never become reality.

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Targan 11-22-2005, 02:44 AM ...and the Gurkha with the party is a British Royal Marine Commando, Sgt Tenzin Gyatso, who became attached to US forces during the last big NATO push into arctic Russia through Finland, assaulting to Kola Peninsula I think. He stayed on in US service and traveled to CONUS with the Op Omega fleet.

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Webstral 11-22-2005, 06:41 AM I have put a substantial number of Europeans at Huachuca, although they are all former Pact soldiers. Once the US gets into the fighting in December 1996, Pact and other associated EPWs get shipped to the US in large numbers. Hastily-constructed prisoner camps spring up all over the place. Huachuca gets a number of these prisoners, despite its location near the border with Mexico.


Following the TDM (Thanksgiving Day Massacre), MG Thomason executes a new policy. All EPWs may earn their citizenship after a certain period of "indentured servitude". In other words, good behavior and hard work in a labor camp will buy the EPWs their freedom and a full stake in the future of SAMAD. A surprising number of the EPWs embrace this plan enthusiastically.


In the aftermath of the 1998 campaign, Huachuca is in desperate need of troops. Certain of the EPWs are offered the chance to join the US Army (or at least the 111th Brigade). A very useful--even critical--number do. As time goes on, more and more of the EPWs are integrated into the 111th Brigade and the other units under the command of Fort Huachuca. Thus by late 2000, the 111th has Poles, Czechoslovaks, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Italians, Greeks, Russians, Belarussians, Ukrainians, all manner of Central Asians, Iraqis, North Koreans, and even a few former Mexican Army troops.


Webstral

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DeaconR 11-22-2005, 12:11 PM That's a great idea for the Fort. it makes it all the more interesting...but it would be startling to some players to run into a group of Iraqis or Russians on patrol!


In my game I have a group of RAF and RN personnel who are attached to Cape May Naval Air Station who ended up being stranded in the US. They are hoping for evacuation but it is not likely to come any time soon. Because people with training and leadership skills are needed they have basically just as allies integrated with the base and placed themselves under local command. The same applies to the British characters in my player group.

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Rainbow Six 11-23-2005, 05:06 PM I think having a group of escaped Warsaw Pact prisoners making their way from a prison camp somewhere on the East Coast of the US to either Texas or Alaska to link up with 'friendly' forces would make a great campaign...especially if they were basically played as good guys, helping out local communities against marauders and other threats as they go, whilst trying not to give away their identitites...could also have them heading to Florida to try and catch a boat to Cuba.


As for NATO nations, exchange personnel would be a definite option...Deacon referred to officers, but afaik senior NCO's undertake these as well?

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Webstral 11-24-2005, 12:29 AM Deacon: I have the Huachuca command deal with the issue of groups of foreign nationals being soldiers in the 111th by splitting them up. Huachuca is the home of Intel, to include interrogators. There are a lot of language specialists on post. The flow of reinforcements out of CONUS becomes progressively more ragged after July 1997. As a result, there are lots of linguists, both cadre and AIT students, on post at the time of the TDM.


Some of these linguists become ad hoc ESL teachers for the EPWs at Huachuca. EPWs are released to retraining for assignment to the line units after they have demonstrated an acceptable mastery of English. This facilitate splitting them into small groups and distributing them among the line units. Thus there don't tend to be Iraqi or Ukrainian rifle squads or supply teams. By 01 JAN 99, one might find a heavily-integrated rifle platoon listing a quarter (!) of its strength as former EPWs. In a rifle platoon of forty, this yields ten former foreign nationals. This ten won't be all of one nation, because Huachuca feels that this presents a potential loyalty and discipline problem. So these ten soldiers might include a Russian or two, a North Korean or two, an Iraqi or two, a Pole or two, and so on. The Huachuca command feels this is the best way to integrate the former EPWs while minimizing the risks of desertion, mutiny, etc.


Rainbow: I thought about just such a situation for Thunder Empire. It's really more of a vignette in the bigger narrative. A group of hard-core Communists who speak Russian escape from Fort Huachuca and journey overland to San Antonio to link up with Division Cuba. They have many harrowing adventures. Only two men make it all the way to San Antonio. When the Division Cuba CG gets word of their story, he calls them in to debrief him personally. He gets all the details he can about SAMAD. When they are done describing the situation in SAMAD, the CG says:


"You fools. We want to go home because there is nothing here for us. The Texans would never take us in. But if the Arizonans were willing to take you in and treat you as equals, then you walked away from the best deal any of us is likely to get in this lifetime. You damned fools. Report to the Sergeant of the Guard for duty."


The EPWs get a good deal, but all of them face reduction in rank. Officers are reduced to junior NCOs. NCOs become specialists. The dedicated and motivated soon rise in rank, though. By 2000, a handful of former Communist officers have risen to (or regained) the rank of major and are thus in positions like battalion S3 or even XO. There are several former EPWs commanding companies, and there are a few former EPW first sergeants as well. The same applies to Mexican Army prisoners/deserters who have paid their dues as laborers and whose skills were needed.


Webstral

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Targan 11-24-2005, 01:04 AM Thanks Webstral, these ideas are gold. I'm going to adopt them for my campaign. There are two interesting groups of EPWs who might do quite well in the CONUS - Italians and Greeks. Not communist, but they sided with WarPac and isolated small units trapped on Mediterranean islands must have been captured in the lead up to the disastrous NATO blockade runs early in the war.

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DeaconR 11-24-2005, 01:50 AM Webstral I love how your campaign sourcebook is unfolding. Not only does it make sense but it adds a distinctive flavour to the campaign that makes it unique among the canon modules. Furthermore, it makes perfect sense as a locale where a lot of that sort of integration would take place.


Rainbow Six: You're quite right, I should have mentioned it as an 'exchange program' instead of singling out officers.

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thefusilier 11-24-2005, 04:34 AM isolated small units trapped on Mediterranean islands must have been captured in the lead up to the disastrous NATO blockade runs early in the war.


The Italians fought in southern Germany near Stuggart so thats probably where alot of the Italian PWs would come from.


Also there might be a chance they might actually not do so well. In the New York book it mentioned riots directed at Greeks and Italians. The result of alot of anger at what Americans saw as a traitorous act, turning their backs against their allies and worse, fighting them. This may be a similar feeling with the military. The war might have been quite different with 2 new enemy countries fighting alongside NATO like they were expected to, and the Turks not busy with Greece as well.

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Targan 11-24-2005, 05:34 AM All true, theFusillier, but at least the Italians and Greeks would have a sizable immigrant community in the US to try and raport with. Maybe they could try to pass themselves off as Swiss, Macedonians and Bulgarians.

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thefusilier 11-24-2005, 05:36 AM True as well. I was just pointing out some hostile fellings they might encounter just for being who they are which not have been realized.

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Targan 11-24-2005, 05:52 AM I think the North Korean EPWs would do quite well, I mean even post-war CONUS is probably a better place to live than north of the DMZ pre-war. They wouldn't have to fight for a meal of grass in the US, and could eat all the lawn clippings they could want!

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ReHerakhte 11-24-2005, 06:31 AM G'Day all, just some random thoughts...


Anybody done any work or thought about the idea of refugees escaping to the USA, Canada or perhaps further south in the Americas by taking whatever vessels they could while the war was in session? I mean as in leaving Europe before 1999.


It could be something as simple as a large group of people in one or more countries sending their children (some of whom might now be considered old enough for military or government service) to boarding schools in the US or Canada so they can wait out the war and return when it's all over.

Or it might be a bunch of townsfolk who commandeer a freighter to escape the Soviets as they mass for a big push.

Or it could even be something organized by the UN, Amnesty International etc. to relocate as many civilians as they could to a safer country before the war overtakes their part of the country.

Or it could just as easily be a bunch of refugees who thought to take shelter in Spain and the Spanish simply bundled them up into some old ships they didn't want and sent them across the Atlantic. This would probably work just as well for the French.


And of course there's no telling how many military personnel might be amongst the refugees if they all look, smell, beg for food, complain etc. the same.


Once they get to the Americas and find out that their flight was nothing more than a temporary reprieve, it's too damned late to do anything about it except try to help out or simply survive. Even if they could escape the conditions in North America, it's not like MilGov or CivGov would spare the ships or fuel to send them back to Europe unless there was suitable compensation.


From memory, there's nothing like this in any of the modules although I haven't read them for a VERY long time.


Cheers,

Kevin

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thefusilier 11-24-2005, 06:41 AM Thats one I never thought of, yet I know Canada was the prime spot for British familes to send their kids during WW2.

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[kato13]

Another thread from the archive which is related to current discussions.

[.45cultist]

I had a British man who met his wife after his service, a couple of college students, and some service brides as NPC's. I guess the Expat was now a U.S. citizen.

[Askold]

What about tourists? I can't see them mentioned anywhere but an unlucky tourist (or someone who was on a business trip) might get stuck in USA (or any other country for that matter) when the war stops and hinders travel.