OT: Let me ask our British posters a strange question

[pmulcahy11b]

Speaking with an "American" accent should be difficult for British or Australians (or other non-native speakers) but it doesn't seem to be. The US is a big country, and there are a LOT of regional and even in some cases community accents -- in some cases, even Americans don't understand each other's accents. Then you throw in ethnic accents, and you have a bigger problem. Then throw in colloquial phrases and words, which again can vary greatly from place to place, and you have a bigger mess. American also love to borrow words from other languages (usually mispronouncing them, again in different ways from place to place), and you have an even BIGGER mess. My mother told me that learning what she still considers weird grammar, weird spelling, and even weirder colloquial phrases and sayings was the hardest part of learning American English -- and she still, 50 years after becoming an American citizen, has problems sometimes with idioms and spelling some words.

An yet, British and Australians still manage to pull off American accents better than Americans can pull off British and Australian accents!

[perardua]

Well, for British people at least, the American accent is just a matter of getting English wrong. Americans have to learn to speak the language properly in order to do our accent!

Joking aside, it probably is because we hear American accents via TV and films far more often than the average American hears an English or Australian accent. In fact, I knew a couple of people at school who (whilst brought up in the UK) had spent most of their younger years watching American TV rather than socialising, and thus had a tendency to use American slang and words, such as faucet.

[Raellus]

I agree that it's a matter of exposure. Most Americans only hear a British accent in movies, and often it's an American actor's version of a British accent they're hearing (think Johnny Depp in Pirates...)

I went to a British high school for three years so I can fake it pretty well. I also like watching shows on BBC America. I can also tell when a Brit or Scott or Irishman or Welshman or Australian or New Zealander or South African is doing an American accent. Band of Brothers is a good example. I knew that most of those actors were British before I watched or read any of the "making of" stuff.

It's all a matter of exposure.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Caradhras

Slightly OT

What annoys me about US shows is that the British/English bloke is always the bad guy - and usually talks like the Royal family!

A mate from my neck of the woods (NW England) was on holiday in the US and another tourist from the US (he was @ grand canyon or something) asked my mate 'what part of the US are you from?' - obviously he couldnt have been English because he didnt talk like the Queen or the dodgy chimney-sweep in Mary Poppins

And finally - what amazes me is the Dutch and Scandanavians, they speak English better than us English! Many with perfect, if neutral, accents.

Cheers.There are strong accents in many of our compatriots English , but as for knowledge ,our NorseGov has really strived to tie us to UK and US for the last 70 years .

( Choice between USSR and NAZI Germany and US/UK axis -not to hard to choose. )

Compulsory English as a second language for at least 6 years in school ( I had 9 ) ,and add to that media and cultural influence .

Funny thing -although most Norwegians have some accent ( we hear it at least ) when they speak English ,we all SING with good pronounciation....

( If not really in tune )

My own English weirdly adapts to whomever I am speaking with . If BBC broadcaster type English I will try to approximate . If Third world taxi driver I wil lsay " we go -yes ? "..

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Speaking with an "American" accent should be difficult for British or Australians (or other non-native speakers) but it doesn't seem to be. The US is a big country, and there are a LOT of regional and even in some cases community accents -- in some cases, even Americans don't understand each other's accents. Then you throw in ethnic accents, and you have a bigger problem. Then throw in colloquial phrases and words, which again can vary greatly from place to place, and you have a bigger mess. American also love to borrow words from other languages (usually mispronouncing them, again in different ways from place to place), and you have an even BIGGER mess. My mother told me that learning what she still considers weird grammar, weird spelling, and even weirder colloquial phrases and sayings was the hardest part of learning American English -- and she still, 50 years after becoming an American citizen, has problems sometimes with idioms and spelling some words.

An yet, British and Australians still manage to pull off American accents better than Americans can pull off British and Australian accents!

I was always wondering about the Sgt Major in "Generation Kill" - Boston ?

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

OK, maybe you're both Higgins? Or Robin Masters?

Never mind, that's an old reference -- put "Magnum PI" into Google or Wikipedia and you'll understand...

God,I wish I had a moustache like that..the women ..the admiration of my peers..

Caught Magnum PI as a boy on Norwegian telly too.Much better than "Hunter" ( SF,Ca show -alot of jumping cars over the hills downtown SF)

That aside - what make you of the new Tom Selleck series ,Jesse Stone ?
I kinda enjoy the slight quirky ambience to it .

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by headquarters

Much better than "Hunter" ( SF,Ca show -alot of jumping cars over the hills downtown SF)

I have to differ with you on that -- Stefanie Kramer as Dee Dee McCall was not only smokin' hot, she kicked ass and was a crack shot, and was still very feminine. What guy could want anything more? To me, a woman who can take care of herself is a turn-on.

[waiting4something]

Works for me. Both shows were great. The 80's had the best shows ever.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I have to differ with you on that -- Stefanie Kramer as Dee Dee McCall was not only smokin' hot, she kicked ass and was a crack shot, and was still very feminine. What guy could want anything more? To me, a woman who can take care of herself is a turn-on.

she was hot - but I just feel Magnum PI had more of a cool feel to it .
For what thats worth when considering its a 80s cop show....

Hunter tended to be more brutish than Magnum as far as I recall .

I think this side of the millenia shows are the best say for instance the wire -awesome imho.

Now - its been nigh on 25 years since I have seen an episode of either show ..I might not remember correctly .

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by headquarters

Hunter tended to be more brutish than Magnum as far as I recall .

Hunter was, but then again, he's not my type...

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Hunter was, but then again, he's not my type...

I'm with the "Hunter" > "Magnum PI" crowd, but I mostly watched "Hunter" because it was on Friday nights, right before "Miami Vice." My gang and I spent a lot of Friday nights gaming with those on the TV.

Until we got cable in the game room, and could watch MTV....

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by Caradhras

Slightly OT

What annoys me about US shows is that the British/English bloke is always the bad guy - and usually talks like the Royal family!

<SNIP>

And finally - what amazes me is the Dutch and Scandanavians, they speak English better than us English! Many with perfect, if neutral, accents.

Caradhras:
The villain speaks the Queen's English because he is so cool and sophisticated compared to the slobbish 'Merican half-arsed do-gooders. But then the underdog Colonials turn the tables on the uppity ne'er-do-well by some quaint home-spun backwoods (or urban streetwise) trick!
("Why, that's just not cricket! It simply isn't _done_!")

One other factor of Americans speaking English is that they in general have lazy ears. English is a pleasant amble through communication while other languages tend to be a roller coaster ride on steroids comparatively. I work for a computer help desk and when we get clients who are not native English speakers, some of my co-workers are stymied by the accent and unfamiliar rhythms of non-native speakers. In fact they call me over to try to figure out what is being said. Sad to say, many if not most Americans don't _listen_ very attentively--they expect their language to be spoon-fed to them. JMHO.

[weswood]

When I was on active duty, the question I was asked wasn't "Are you from Texas?" it was "What part of Texas are you from?".

And I freely admit to being language stupid. I've always had a hard time trying to learn other languages. Three phrases I always made a point of learning in whateve country I was in was "Can I have a beer, please", "Where is the restroom", and my favorite "I like the way your butt wiggles when you walk."

I understand a little bit of Spanish, and speak less. A major function of my job is disconnecting people's electricity when they don't pay the bill. A lot of times I knock on a door, tell the customer what's going on, and get a blank look. "No english" is the phrase. I just smile and say "Adios le luce"- spellings' probably wrong, but literally translates into "goodby lights". I won't get into a rant about non english speakers

[jester]

Magnum was just cool! He had style.

Hunter, that was filmed near my house, it was filmed in Los Angeles mostly around the port and harbor in San Pedro, lots of hills for their A-Team type jumps.

Another one is Air Wolf!

[RN7]

I think its down to the fact that Americans generally speak better English than most English people do. More Americans tend to speak a good standard form of English which is widespread throughout America despite some regional accents. On the other hand most English people tend to speak dialects of English which can be very hard to mimic unless you have actually lived in England for some time.

Proper English English is called Recieved Pronunciation (the 1950's BBC or RAF Spitfire pilot accent), but only a minority of English people now have this accent which has upper class associations. The rest of England speak dialects which vary greatly throughout England. Speakers of Northern English sound like there from a different country to Southern English speakers, and even in the north and midlands there are huge variations between cities and regions. Geordies from the north-east speak a form of English which was heavily influenced by Norse settlement in England during Viking times. Many Southerners cant seem to pronounce the letter R, and working class southerners tend to drop the letter H in words. The southern accent is a bit similar to an Australian accent, and some of its characteristcis are also found in Australia, NZ and South Africa, probably due to the fact that the first English people to go to these countries were largely from the southern counties and the accent stuck. Also a lot of people from the west country sound like stereotypical pirates of old, which is no coincidence as most of the English pirates actually came form the western towns and counties of England during the age of sail.

[Caradhras]

[QUOTE=WallShadow;22854]Caradhras:
The villain speaks the Queen's English because he is so cool and sophisticated compared to the slobbish 'Merican half-arsed do-gooders. But then the underdog Colonials turn the tables on the uppity ne'er-do-well by some quaint home-spun backwoods (or urban streetwise) trick!
("Why, that's just not cricket! It simply isn't _done_!")

QUOTE]


Hmm - I should really have thought about that theory - kind of a revisit to the War of Independence in Die Hard etc etc

[Targan]

I can mimic accents pretty well and I have less trouble than many of my friends and co-workers when trying to understand people with heavy accents or who are not native English speakers.

I consider myself to be quite well spoken (I have much better diction, pronunciation and a better vocabulary than most Australians) but I deliberately alter the way I talk depending on who I'm talking to. For instance I would naturally usually say to someone on the phone "to whom am I speaking please" but at work I usually dumb it down to "who am I talking to please" because it causes less confusion. Also, Australians (and especially working class Australians) tend to have "tall poppy syndrome" and don't react well to people if they think they are trying to put on airs and graces.

In any case I always try to be polite. Good manners are one of the tools we have to assist us in not having people wanting to kill each other all the time IMHO.

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by Caradhras

Hmm - I should really have thought about that theory - kind of a revisit to the War of Independence in Die Hard etc etc

You were reading my mind: I had John McLain firmly planted in my thoughts at that moment! Or the Dukes of Hazzard, or Sheriff Andy Taylor (Mayberry, North Carolina, police department, Andy Griffith Show). Just another way of reassuring the American viewing public that the average American Joe can outsmart or outfight any overeducated pretentious megavillain anyday!
Or, perhaps, from a BBC point of view, one gets a similar feeling from some of the later Blackadder series (Blackadder the Third, Blackadder goes Forth), where he, a lower-class character, constantly undermines the fatally flawed plans of his superiors, the Upperclass Twits-in-Command and their coat-tails-riding sycophantic toadies.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by WallShadow

You were reading my mind: I had John McLain firmly planted in my thoughts at that moment! Or the Dukes of Hazzard, or Sheriff Andy Taylor (Mayberry, North Carolina, police department, Andy Griffith Show). Just another way of reassuring the American viewing public that the average American Joe can outsmart or outfight any overeducated pretentious megavillain anyday!
Or, perhaps, from a BBC point of view, one gets a similar feeling from some of the later Blackadder series (Blackadder the Third, Blackadder goes Forth), where he, a lower-class character, constantly undermines the fatally flawed plans of his superiors, the Upperclass Twits-in-Command and their coat-tails-riding sycophantic toadies.

Dont know if anyone has seen it , the follow up from 2008 and 2009 is pretty good post apoc imho .
Anyways - the original has a lot of subtle class distinctions where the main characters are all :

"Good Lord!look at all these supplies ! I wonder from whence they came.."

and the "NPCs" are more "OI! Bluidy`ell!! those are our supplies those are ,innit!"

( A show where the proper pronounciation guys are constantly threatend by those who speak a local dialect or a more working class tone )

Just saying ,diction and proper English CAN mean that whomever you are speaking to might actually be a good guy.

[Raellus]

I tried watching Daybreakers last night and the first thing I noticed was that all of the supporting actors were trying to speak with an American accent. I believe that most of them were Australian. I wonder why they didn't just set the movie in Australia. It was really obvious to me and really distracting. Most of the actors gave a really stilted delivery. I wonder if they were trying so hard to mimic an American accent that they forgot about the meaning of and emotion behind their lines.

Anyway, I couldn't finish it. It had nothing to do with the accent thing. It was just a really poorly written, acted, and directed movie, IMO. The premise is interesting, but the execution was very poor.

I can fool most Americans into thinking I'm from somewhere in the Commonwealth. I wonder if my accent could fool a native, though. Probably not.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by waiting4something

Works for me. Both shows were great. The 80's had the best shows ever.

True, also a tribute to NBC's success then was Brandon Tartikoff with hits like A-Team, Cosby Show and so on.

Chuck

P.S. - All three networks had good shows though, I think NBC's star was the brightest then.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

I'm with the "Hunter" > "Magnum PI" crowd, but I mostly watched "Hunter" because it was on Friday nights, right before "Miami Vice." My gang and I spent a lot of Friday nights gaming with those on the TV.

Until we got cable in the game room, and could watch MTV....

I also remember back then where NBC had "Friday Night Videos" (if your affiliate did not sign off for the night, remember that?) and USA Network had "Night Flight" that showed videos and cartoon shorts from aspiring animators. I remember watching "Jack Mac and Radboy" on "Night Flight," they were sort of like a 1980's version of "Beavis and Butt-Head."

Chuck

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Nowhere Man 1966

I also remember back then where NBC had "Friday Night Videos" (if your affiliate did not sign off for the night, remember that?) and USA Network had "Night Flight" that showed videos and cartoon shorts from aspiring animators. I remember watching "Jack Mac and Radboy" on "Night Flight," they were sort of like a 1980's version of "Beavis and Butt-Head."

Chuck

I remember a show from way back when which, at the time, was better than Saturday Night Live -- it was called something like "Laff Tracks," or something like that.

[jester]

I remember all those shows.... what can I say, I was a late night junkie then. And of course SBC TV where I got my first glimpse of John Candy and a few other up and comming comics before they hit the mainstream, alas, they were still the red headed step child compared to it won't end ever Saturday Night Live....and how long has the audience said "Let them die already?" About 20 years now!

[Abbott Shaull]

One of the strange things about living in University town and I will not use the word City (it would be over statement for Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan). Yeah, depending where you go in the US, each region may have it own dialect and their own accent. Yet, I have seen it while in the Army based at Fort Bragg and here in the UP of Michigan. Many people who move can and do adapt the local accent/dialect fairly easy, to the point where others who have transplanted too wouldn't be able to tell you were from else where originally.

Then again there is something in the New England accent, various New York ones, Mississippi, and Texans twang that are dead give aways, or certain open hospitality phrases that reminds one of the South. I know one person who I go to school who lived in New Mexico, you can barely tell he moved up here only 5 years ago, again his wife still has that Texan twang you pick up on.

One has to remember in the US lot of the local accent/dialect reflect the people who moved into the various regions once they came to the US and they added their accent to the local flavor as they and their following generations mingled with those already living in the area.

Just some thoughts.

[pmulcahy11b]

Also, depending upon your profession, you will build up jargon that will often stay with you the rest of your life. And depending upon what era you grew up in, you'll have slang from your childhood and teenage years that may stay with you as well. I actually like to confuse today's kids with some of my jargon from when I was their age; the look on their faces is precious!

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I remember a show from way back when which, at the time, was better than Saturday Night Live -- it was called something like "Laff Tracks," or something like that.

I think I remember that too, vaguely.

Chuck

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by jester

I remember all those shows.... what can I say, I was a late night junkie then. And of course SBC TV where I got my first glimpse of John Candy and a few other up and comming comics before they hit the mainstream, alas, they were still the red headed step child compared to it won't end ever Saturday Night Live....and how long has the audience said "Let them die already?" About 20 years now!

I also remember when the networks would run late night movies, CBS comes to mind. During the summer, I sometimes watched them, they would run movies that were several years old like "Citizen's Band" (1977) and "Damnation Alley" (1977) and so on.

"Saturday Night Live," I miss the classic times, especially "The Coneheads" and "Mr. Bill."

Chuck

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Also, depending upon your profession, you will build up jargon that will often stay with you the rest of your life. And depending upon what era you grew up in, you'll have slang from your childhood and teenage years that may stay with you as well. I actually like to confuse today's kids with some of my jargon from when I was their age; the look on their faces is precious!

Yeah, I get funny looks when I would say "holy moly" a lot, I think I picked that up from the old kid's show "Shazam" that ran from 1974/77.

Chuck

[pmulcahy11b]

Does anyone remember "Creature Feature" from the early 1970s, or was that just a San Francisco thing? They showed a double feature of monster movies, with weird intermissions that had short films like "The Happy Barbecue" -- a psychopathic barbecue roaming through the streets killing everyone by inflicting severe burns.