Stupid GI Tricks

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

I wonder if they tested the claymore rigs there -- I was always told that a sand bag backing was preferred to prevent damage to the backing armor on a 113. I'd also think a test shot would blow their brackets to smithereens.

Claymores do surprisingly little actual damage to a target since the design is more to spread shrapnel over the target area than inflict blast damage. Still, I wouldn't want to be holding one in my hand (or even within a hundred yards and not in cover!). From memory they've only got about 700 grams of explosive in them which is spread out in a thin sheet.

The brackets should survive ok if they're made out of a decently thick steel - might need cosmetic application of a hammer, but should be good for reloading.
The problem I see with strapping claymores to a vehicle is that the back blast can bounce off obstacles located up to a metre behind and push the claymore over before it's shrapnel can get clear - in other words it fires into the dirt instead of sending it's hundreds of ball bearings screaming towards the enemy.

To put the claymore's capabilities into perspective, I once saw a bank of three fired at figure 11 targets (mansized cardboard cutouts of torso and head) which were located between about 10 and thirty metres. Even the closest target had no more than half a dozen holes in it with some of the further targets missed entirely by the storm of 2,100+ pieces of shrapnel. They certainly weren't shredded, but I for one still wouldn't have wanted to be on the receiving end - the noise alone was enough to incapacitate and at least stun long enough that the infantryman who initiated the blast could take his time aiming...

[cavtroop]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

Maybe they had to use the claymores because no one would issue them a crew served for the TC's hatch . . .

LOL, no kidding! On the Wikimedia page for that image, they state that M113 is part of the QRF for whatever base they're on. I'll assume there were going in for maintenance or something, no way it wouldn't have a .50/Mk19 mounted as part of the QRF...

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by cavtroop

LOL, no kidding! On the Wikimedia page for that image, they state that M113 is part of the QRF for whatever base they're on. I'll assume there were going in for maintenance or something, no way it wouldn't have a .50/Mk19 mounted as part of the QRF...

A QRF without a crew-served on the vehicle...only the Air Farce! They probably plan on calling a TLAM strike in case some goat herd crosses the perimeter!

The Air Force is the only service to acheive a 100% accuracy for their weapons. Sooner or later, everything they fire will strike the ground!

[Dog 6]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

Not sure what a boot round is, But IMHO, shooting a camel with 120mm ANYTHING,......there can NOT be much left of the camel?!?!

sabot round I should say. oh you'd be surprised what was left. 100's of pounds of good meat.

[helbent4]

Lee,

As we all know, relations weren't completely harmonious behind the Iron Curtain, and Russia's allies didn't always appreciate their intended roles in any impending war/nuclear holocaust.

The Poles in particular were aware of how deeply screwed they would be in pretty much any situation. Be it their conventional role of a maritime invasion of Denmark or on the receiving end of nuclear strikes by NATO to cut supply lines by taking out bridges (and therefore cities) all along the Wisla (Vistula). I can't recall how bad they thought it was going to be but I seem to recall they thought they would suffer 40% civilian casualties and Poland would be effectively cut in half.

I'm not sure if one General telling off another counts as a "stupid GI trick" but this exchange would have been interesting to witness:

It did not look like we thought, that we would go and we would defeat the Danes and Belgians. And [so] we prepared ourselves for the possibility of getting thrashed. One time at a training briefing in the General Staff, I was angry and could not hold back.

Since there was money there that was returned to the government, I stood up and told Jaruzelski, "General, more should be given to Civil Defense so that a good, solid bunker could be built, lock up in that bunker a hundred Polish men, some sort of real good fuckers and two hundred women so that we can rebuild the Polish nation. Give some money for that." Of course, Jaruzelski was insulted and said, "What are you talking about?"

- Gen. Tuczapski, Parallel History Project on NATO and the Warsaw Pact, Oral History Interviews with Polish Generals, September 2002

Tony

[HorseSoldier]

Originally Posted by cavtroop

LOL, no kidding! On the Wikimedia page for that image, they state that M113 is part of the QRF for whatever base they're on. I'll assume there were going in for maintenance or something, no way it wouldn't have a .50/Mk19 mounted as part of the QRF...

It's an interesting set up on that vehicle -- those are two firing ports for M231s on the side, I think, and those plates above must be armored windows. To get to the firing ports on an M113A3 they'd have had to remove the inner spall liners. Looks like it's had the hull drilled to run those claymore wires as well. I wonder who did the mods?. Kind of weird they'd do all that work on the hull and not mount some sort of uparmored cupola for the TC

[dragoon500ly]

The Poles in particular were aware of how deeply screwed they would be in pretty much any situation. Be it their conventional role of a maritime invasion of Denmark or on the receiving end of nuclear strikes by NATO to cut supply lines by taking out bridges (and therefore cities) all along the Wisla (Vistula). I can't recall how bad they thought it was going to be but I seem to recall they thought they would suffer 40% civilian casualties and Poland would be effectively cut in half.

I've heard this story too! And its still funny!

Here's one about a visiting Russian general at one of their military academies, and to test the young cadets, the general set up a simple problem:

"You are the commander of a Motor Rifle Divison and it is the third day of fighting following the NATO invasion of the DDR. You are the leading division of our counter-attack."

"On your left flank, a German Panzer Division is moving up and they will be in position to launch their own attack within the next 24 hours."

"To your front, an American mechanized division is sitting up hasty defense positions, they have suffered heavy losses and they will not be rady for offensive operations for at least 3 days."

"What do you do?"

The general listened as cadet after cadet laid out all kinds of plans to stop the Germans from launching their attack. Finally, the general had enough.

"Do you idiots have any idea of what is being taught in this academy he roared. You are supposed to be professional soldiers. There is only one correct answer! You attack the Americans first! Only after they are defeated do you attack the Germans! Only then!"

In the stunned silence, it was some minutes before a cadet gathered the courage to ask the question..

"Comrade General! Why are we to attack the Americans first? Are they a more capable foe?"

The general leaned on the podium and sipped from his glass of water. He then looked over the class and then answered.

"The answer cadet is very simple. Yes the Americans are dangerous foe, so are the Germans. But as professional military officers, the only correct answer is to attack the Americans first, after all, as professionals, it is always business before pleasure!"

Did I mention that the Russians really love the Germans?

[Dog 6]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

I've heard this story too! And its still funny!

Here's one about a visiting Russian general at one of their military academies, and to test the young cadets, the general set up a simple problem:

"You are the commander of a Motor Rifle Divison and it is the third day of fighting following the NATO invasion of the DDR. You are the leading division of our counter-attack."

"On your left flank, a German Panzer Division is moving up and they will be in position to launch their own attack within the next 24 hours."

"To your front, an American mechanized division is sitting up hasty defense positions, they have suffered heavy losses and they will not be rady for offensive operations for at least 3 days."

"What do you do?"

The general listened as cadet after cadet laid out all kinds of plans to stop the Germans from launching their attack. Finally, the general had enough.

"Do you idiots have any idea of what is being taught in this academy he roared. You are supposed to be professional soldiers. There is only one correct answer! You attack the Americans first! Only after they are defeated do you attack the Germans! Only then!"

In the stunned silence, it was some minutes before a cadet gathered the courage to ask the question..

"Comrade General! Why are we to attack the Americans first? Are they a more capable foe?"

The general leaned on the podium and sipped from his glass of water. He then looked over the class and then answered.

"The answer cadet is very simple. Yes the Americans are dangerous foe, so are the Germans. But as professional military officers, the only correct answer is to attack the Americans first, after all, as professionals, it is always business before pleasure!"

Did I mention that the Russians really love the Germans?

LMFAO

you got to love that.

[dragoon500ly]

My last tour in Germany was with the 2nd ACR, which was charged with border patrol along the FRRG/Czech border. Most of our patrol activity was simply running jeeps up and down the grenze, calling in reports on anything unusual...

Like NATO, the Warsaw Pact runs field exercises and this story involves a tank crew from the Soviet Group of Forces in Czech. A T-62 regiment was conducting an exercise close to the border, and we were perched up in a hilltop, watching, taking photos and maintaining a humorous critique of the exercise. We were absorbed in binos and spotting scopes when one of the driver's spotted a T-62 moving down a logging road that approached the border.

Unlike the East/West German border, the border with the Czechs is marked with border stones and warning poles, only in critical points were the normal fencing/towers. So if you didn't pay close attention, you could find yourself crossing the border rather easily.

By this time we were watching this tank approach the border stone, and we could see the TC, trying to read a map and looking like he was totally lost. As the tank crossed into West Germany, we called in the spot report, and the the fhit hit the san!!!

Our squadron commander came up on the radio and ordered us to stop the tank and place the crew under arrest.

Now, picture this, our patrol consisted of two hard topped jeeps, with five men, 4 M-16s and a M-1911A1 was the largest caliber weapon we had. Like most tanks on both sides, S2 had advised that the Soviets loaded at least a partial load of main gun ammo. Hmmmmmm...a 115mm cannon vs a M-16? sounds like a bad WWF match up!!!!

So, we peeled off down the hill, blowing our little horns and pulled up alongside the T62. The TC peered down at us with a questing look and I yelled up at him "Czech" pointing back the way he had come. When he looked back, I pointed the border stone to him and the light bulb went off over his head and he turned his tank around and went back.

A few moments later, two helicopters landed and our squadron and regimental commanders get out. Needless to say, I was racked over the coals by the squadron commander for failing to stop the tank. My only defense, "It was a tank, sir, I had no anti-tank weapons to disable it when it drove off!"

At this, our regimental commander laughed and said "He's right!"

So, only a minor international incident, but least we got some excellent photos of a T62....not to mention the TCs map with all of the field exercise graphics on it!

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

I've heard this story too! And its still funny!

Here's one about a visiting Russian general at one of their military academies, and to test the young cadets, the general set up a simple problem:


<SNIP>


"The answer cadet is very simple. Yes the Americans are dangerous foe, so are the Germans. But as professional military officers, the only correct answer is to attack the Americans first, after all, as professionals, it is always business before pleasure!"

Did I mention that the Russians really love the Germans?

Sounds like the answer a Western journalist got when he was interviewing a Czech citizen about the presence of Soviet troops, ostensibly allies, in his country. The journalist asked if the Czechs considered the Russians as friends or brothers?

"Brothers, of course!" the Czech replied. "You can choose your _friends_."

[Targan]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

So, only a minor international incident, but least we got some excellent photos of a T62....not to mention the TCs map with all of the field exercise graphics on it!

How many people do you know who can truthfully say they were right there when Soviet armor invaded West Germany?

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

So, only a minor international incident, but least we got some excellent photos of a T62....not to mention the TCs map with all of the field exercise graphics on it!

Lee,

Totally awesome! Great story. When did this happen?

Tony

[dragoon500ly]

This took place, 18 September, 1986.

There is a whole history of border crossings, an overflight by a Hind-A gunship in 1984. Two overflights by AH-1s in 1984 and 1985. There is even a story about a dismounted patrol crossing into Czech and being arrested by the border guards back in 1975.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Targan

How many people do you know who can truthfully say they were right there when Soviet armor invaded West Germany?

There was the 1986 incident, there was a previous one in 1978 and there was supposed to have been a third involving the British, no idea on the date but it was supposed to have been 1980-81.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

" the only correct answer is to attack the Americans first, after all, as professionals, it is always business before pleasure!"

I've heard this one from WW2, when someone asked a Polish officer in exile which invader he'd shoot first: Soviet or German? Germans first, business before pleasure!

Perhaps I should mention a medieval Polish legend, the last words of St. Florian, "O, that a country should be so cursed, to be neighbors of the Germans!" Or something like that.

[HorseSoldier]

My understanding is the the Free Poles vs the Germans in Italy and NE Europe were some of the nastier grudge fights of the war, with not much quarter asked or given on either side.

[dragoon500ly]

One of the things that I loved about the old M60A1 was the fuel cut off in the driver's compartment. A driver could simply reach back, knock the cut off on and within a couple of kilometers, the tank would sputter to a stop.

It was also amazing the number of times that a tank would sputter to a stop, inside some small village and while the tank crew tried to figure out the problem, a loader whould run into a LottoTotto and pick up bread, sausage and beer!

And volia! the tank would start back up and rejoin the convoy...

[dragoon500ly]

Being in armored cavalry, we would run wild and far on FTXs and regularly out distanced the trains. Now, in the field, the Army really does try to feed its troops a hot breakfast and supper, and a C-Ration lunch...but all too often, the hot meals were lukewarm at best, or served out of a cold marmite can.

Cav troopers, tend to get a little creative...at those times. Nothing like the scouts running dismounted night patrols into villages, for the purpose of observing the local butcher/baker. Or the tankers running a hasty attack into town and dismounting local security elements and secureing the nearest phone booth long enough for the pizza delivery guy to arrive. Or to see a
M60A1 or M113 Dragon Track pull into the local grocery store and a few GIs run in and "make contact with local resistance fighters".

Can still see my troop commander sitting in his jeep, slowly shaking his head when he heard about that one....

Not to mention, the GIs making contact with the local rug-rats and trading C-Rations for hot meals from home, or some of dad's beer, or even the older sister!

[Adm.Lee]

This sounds like the crowning moment of military glory in my dad's ROTC career-- he was acting platoon leader the day of the "Ambush of the Good Humor Man" one hot day at Ft. Pickett.

[dragoon500ly]

LOL!

And I claim no knowledge of the pizza driver that delivered 30 pizzas to a certain location on Fort Hood!

[Legbreaker]

The town of Singleton near the Australian Infantry School has a couple of pizza stores that deliver. Apparently one of them delivers to grid references in the rather large training area - if you can get the order to them, they can deliver (not sure about the 30 minutes or it's free bit though).

[ex3313]

During my first refit in Guam I was duty driver and was sent to McDonalds to fetch over 100 big mac's and a similar number of 1/4 lber's amazing they had a drive up window for orders thast size

[dragoon500ly]

Guess that's one thing true of any service member, given the choice of issue rations, or acquiring real food...the soldier's ability to get their hands on it is unlimited!

[pmulcahy11b]

That was the bad part of my field shift at 2X -- I often slept through all three LOGPACs or was too busy to get the meals when they came. Of course, being a grunt, I was used to subsisting on MREs in the field anyway, and being a REMF billet (though technically not one, I beg to differ), I could supplement it with lots of pogey.

[Rockwolf66]

Heck some friends of mine enjoyed fried chicken and beer daily in Iraq.

[weswood]

Originally Posted by ex3313

During my first refit in Guam I was duty driver and was sent to McDonalds to fetch over 100 big mac's and a similar number of 1/4 lber's amazing they had a drive up window for orders thast size

A buddy of mine at Cherry Point NC went through the drive through of the McD's on base and asked if they had any McMatches for his McCiggarette.

[dragoon500ly]

Remember one LOGPAC when I was a driver on a M-60A1, nothing beats a midnight refueling and having the First Sergeant sliding a paper plate of ice cold food up the front slope.

Didn't have the heart to tell him that we had grilled steaks earlier....

Nice thing about tanks is all of the extra storage space that can be loaded up!

[Nowhere Man 1966]

20 years ago at one of my jobs for a truck rental company, one of the mechanics was an M-60 tanker in the late 1970's and early 1980's. He told a story once where they were on a practice range firing the main gun and by coincidence, a deer came onto the range as the tank fired. Needless to say, the 105mm round hit the deer and tore it to shreds. The General at the base wanted to make sure they were not deerhunting with the tank and my mechanic friend said it was an accident.

Chuck

[Legbreaker]

As I've posted elsewhere, our Battalion armourer was worse than useless, replacing worn out parts with other worn out parts he'd been hording and should have disposed of years before. Therefore, all our M60s were in a shocking state and should have been declared unservicable.

We were on the range with about 10 machineguns firing at 300 metre figure 11 targets when a mob of kangaroos, probably 40-50 strong, hopped across the range. Suddenly tracers veered away from the targets and towards the roos. Roughly 30 seconds and about a thousand rounds later and every last one hopped leisurely over the other side of the range completely untouched....

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

As I've posted elsewhere, our Battalion armourer was worse than useless, replacing worn out parts with other worn out parts he'd been hording and should have disposed of years before. Therefore, all our M60s were in a shocking state and should have been declared unservicable.

We were on the range with about 10 machineguns firing at 300 metre figure 11 targets when a mob of kangaroos, probably 40-50 strong, hopped across the range. Suddenly tracers veered away from the targets and towards the roos. Roughly 30 seconds and about a thousand rounds later and every last one hopped leisurely over the other side of the range completely untouched....

Sounds like the "A-Team Syndrome" where thousands of rounds are fired but no one gets hit.

Chuck