An Alternative Survivor's Guide to the United Kingdom

[Matt W]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

BTW, with regards to the Royal Armoured Corps Training Centre Regiment, I've spent a considerable amount of time trying to think of a better name for them so if anyone has any suggestions, feel free to shout...

Wouldn't they be the Royal Wessex Yeomanry? Or the Queen's Own Dorset Yeomanry?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%2...orset_Yeomanry

[simonmark6]

Technically, a surviving Diana wouldn't be the Princess of Wales anymore. Here title would be quite confusing as her husband, the Prince of Wales didn't become King and therefore she was never a Queen or Princess Consort. I suppose she might get the title HRH, Diana, the King Mother, but I don't know if there's a precedent for that.

So...onto the naming of your composite regiment:

Bovington Brigade/Battalion/Regiment

Princess of Wales', the King Mother, Own (I love this one because I bet the rest of the army would call them the 'king mothers...)

Or, as stated, the Dorset or Wessex Yeomanry which already exist as TA companies.

But my vote is for the 'king mothers...

[Rainbow Six]

I already have the Royal Wessex Yeomanry on the order of battle as one of the TA Armoured Regiments (I used a suggestion of LouieD's here and reroled them from a UK home defence Recce Regt (as they are IRL) to a three Squadrom Armoured Regiment equipped with Chieftains as a stop gap measure following the outbreak of the Sino Soviet War; they then went to Europe during 97 to reinforce the BAOR).

There's also the fact that they're a composite unit made up of bods from a number of different Regiments (many of whom are in training roles after having been wounded in combat), so not sure how well they'd all take to being rebadged as Yeomanry (that was also the reason I eventually discounted 5 RTR, although it does still sounds feasable).

Good point about Diana's title...hadn't thought of that at all...as best as I can tell she might be entitled to "Queen Mother" as it refers to mother of the reigning Monarch regardless of the Monarch's gender), but I don't know whether or not she would have had to have been Queen Consort first. Best solution might be to make her a Duchess of somewhere? e.g. (and using Sussex for example purposes only)

1st Independent Armoured Regiment (Diana, Duchess of Sussex's Own)?

The Duchess of Sussex's Own Independent Armoured Regiment?

5th Royal Tank Regiment (Diana, Duchess of Sussex's Own)?

[simonmark6]

Yup, Duchess of so-and-so is the best option.

I still like the King Mother, sounds like a pre-teen trying to swear...

[dude_uk]

If you choose a less fancy title than probably 'Royal armoured corps battle-group' will do. Then name each of the squadrons after its parent regiment. 'A' Royal tank regiment squadron, 'B' Lancers Squadron etc.

Following on from the Wessex yeomanry discussion. I spun off the Dorset Yeomanry squadron and built a TA armoured regiment around it. This is based around the short period it existed as an independent unit during the early 1990's as an armoured replacement unit.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by dude_uk

If you choose a less fancy title than probably 'Royal armoured corps battle-group' will do.

Good point. Maybe in creating a whole new Regiment I've been over thinking this too much. RAC Bovington Battle Group would work (which fits with an idea I had earlier of the rest of the Army referring to it informally as the Bovington Light Horse...), as would Task Force something. And they do have a Company of TA Infantry under command as well...

Originally Posted by dude_uk

Following on from the Wessex yeomanry discussion. I spun off the Dorset Yeomanry squadron and built a TA armoured regiment around it. This is based around the short period it existed as an independent unit during the early 1990's as an armoured replacement unit.

Sounds interesting...

[dude_uk]

'Options for change' orchestrated reform in the TA yeomanry, Amalgamating two regiments, forming 2 new ones from other cap badges and spinning off two independent units form two squadrons. Keeping the two regiments that amalgamated as they are, I added-

-The Scottish Yeomanry (In real life made from the disbandment of an TA RTC unit)

-The Kings own Yorkshire yeomanry (Made from 7Th Light Infantry, in our timeline)

-The Dorset Yeomanry (Made the UK's first TA armored unit)

-The North Irish horse ( Independent Recce squadron)


I've included the document containing all the TA Lineage since 1967 if anyone wants it. I think it has been posted before http://www.win.tue.nl/~drenth/BritAr...ge/lineage.pdf.

I've been writing a document on the TA yeomanry, along with the Brief history of the Dorset yeomanry in the twilight war.

I'll see if can actually post it up and contribute for once before I ago away again.

[Panther Al]

Been reading the thread and have enjoyed what I have seen so far, one thing though - I would think perhaps the NIH would be a Independent Armoured Unit, instead of a recce. My familiarity with the unit dates from WW2 when they was equipped with Churchills, far from a recce mindset and history.

[dude_uk]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Been reading the thread and have enjoyed what I have seen so far, one thing though - I would think perhaps the NIH would be a Independent Armoured Unit, instead of a recce. My familiarity with the unit dates from WW2 when they was equipped with Churchills, far from a recce mindset and history.

The north Irish Horse has been a squadron sized armoured Recce unit since around 1967 when the TA was reformed.

[Rainbow Six]

Guys, been looking into the Grob 109 today, but from what I can tell it didn't enter RAF service until 1999? Looks like the University Air Squadrons were still using the SA Bulldog up until then?

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by dude_uk

The north Irish Horse has been a squadron sized armoured Recce unit since around 1967 when the TA was reformed.

Huh. Thats what I get for not looking up its post-war organization.

[Sanjuro]

Don't get mixed up between the Grob 109 and 115. The Grob 109 is a motor glider- although you can fly along using the engine, it is intended to use the engine for takeoff, then switch off; the 109 is a pretty respectable sailplane, although it will not give as good a glide ratio as a dedicated modern sailplane. The 109 has been used by the Air Training Corps (RAF cadets, aged 13-21) and Combined Cadet Force (similar age group, affiliated to schools) since 1991.
The Grob 115, on the other hand, is a convenional aeroplane, designed to operate under power the whole time. It replaced the Bulldog (about which I have raved in a previous thread) in the University Air Squadrons (closest thing to AFROTC) in 1999; earlier in the 1990s the Air Experience Flights (also set up for ATC and CCF cadets to experience flight) were absorbed into the UASs when the deHavilland Chipmunks were retired.
Any of these aircraft could be found at either military or civil airfields in a T2k scenario; the advantage of the Grob 109 is that, as a motor glider, it uses far less fuel then the others- additionally, paint it pale grey and without engine noise to help track it, it is effectively invisible (and you thought your T2k campaign had no room for Stealth aircraft!).

[Rainbow Six]

Thanks Sanjuro...I had confused the 109 with the 115. Thanks for clarifying.

[Matt W]

THE POWER PLANTS OF DARTMOOR

There are no large-scale power plants west of Hinley Point. However, there are 3 small hydro plants just north of Plymouth

http://www.marytavyparishcouncil.co....hepowerstation

Their combined output is a mere 3.34 megawatts: a pitiful amount by pre-war standards, but a major amount in the Twilight period

The sites are manned by SWEB engineers (South Western Electricity Board), REME soldiers and a detachment from Tavistock police. There are political problems in that there isn't enough power to go round...

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Matt W

THE POWER PLANTS OF DARTMOOR

There are no large-scale power plants west of Hinley Point. However, there are 3 small hydro plants just north of Plymouth

http://www.marytavyparishcouncil.co....hepowerstation

Their combined output is a mere 3.34 megawatts: a pitiful amount by pre-war standards, but a major amount in the Twilight period

The sites are manned by SWEB engineers (South Western Electricity Board), REME soldiers and a detachment from Tavistock police. There are political problems in that there isn't enough power to go round...

Thanks Matt...that's useful info...

[Rainbow Six]

Evenin'

I'm well behind on my plans to complete the remaining parts of this by the end of 2011 (why does work take up so much time?!), but attached is an updated order of battle for HM Forces. There are no major changes, just a few amendments to the Army's support units and a rewrite of the RAF in which I've tried to incorporate some of the great suggestions put forward in this thread, particularly the Grob motor glider. I've also changed the Household Brigade to the 32nd (Guards) Infantry Brigade and introduced a Joint Services Command.

I've also added an additional two TA Infantry Battalions (4 RIR and 4 WFR) to bolster the forces in Southern England. I've added a comment to the timeline stating that those two Battalions were brought back from Germany after the 1997 nuclear exchanges to help maintain order.

Comments welcome.

[James Langham]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Good point. Maybe in creating a whole new Regiment I've been over thinking this too much. RAC Bovington Battle Group would work (which fits with an idea I had earlier of the rest of the Army referring to it informally as the Bovington Light Horse...), as would Task Force something. And they do have a Company of TA Infantry under command as well...



Sounds interesting...

A battlegroup would normally be a mix of infantry and armour so that fits. A few other options on the name:

1/RAC (Composite)
Holmes Force (named after the commander - use name of choice)
Bovington Composite Rgt (RAC)
Composite Rgt (RAC)

[Rainbow Six]

Cheers James.

As it happens I eventually ended up just sticking with RAC Training Regiment. After some thought I discounted Battlegroup as I thought it sounded a little too "aggressive" as long as the Regiment was in cantonment at Bovington and I thought something like 1st Regiment, RAC might open up a can of worms from a lineage point of view.

Still intend to have the rest of the Army call it the Bovington Light Horse though...

[rcaf_777]

Just wondering what dose Bovington have that is in running condition?

[simonmark6]

A long as the armoured Rolls Royce is still going, I don't give a monkey's chuff. I've loved that car since I had a ride in it during my first visit to Bovington in the late seventies. I go there now and look at the museum and say, "I remember when all this was fields..."

My school used to do Geography Fieldwork in Swanage in the early '90s and we used to do a day looking at how the army preserved the environment in the grounds. If I remember correctly, the vehicles being used at that time included:

FV 432
Cargo version of the M113
Fox armoured car
Rolls Royce Armoured car
Centurion
Chieftan
Early Chally

Those were what came out regularly, I also heard they had a couple of Panzers (Mk I and MK IV) and later they were receiving Soviet gear from Desert Storm and some of those worked, barely. The ones above are those that are likely to be working with maybe some of the other armoured cars being made to work, mostly variants of the Fox and Ferret as well as a Humber Pig and a Saladin.

There would have been a couple of dozen able to be used as pill boxes with guns running from 155mm to about 76.2mm.

There would also be a fair number of recovery vehicles around and a decent number of old timers that knew a lot about kit bashing: it was the time where the volunteers were basically rebuilding a Tiger Tank from scratch.

How many survived the war? Age would be against them but location would be a plus, good farmland, access to coastal fishing, some excellent defensive positions and yo can't spit without hitting a squaddie (not that I ever tried).

[Olefin]

An excellent work Rainbow Six - love the modifications you have made, ones that turn what was to me a very unsatisfactory Survivors Guide into one that is much more realistic and playable.

And having at least one operable SSN for the RN is not only very believeable but also supports what I will be posting as to an alternate timeline after Omega - that having only one surviving SSN in the whole world and one surviving boomer is just not realistic.

And having Ark Royal damaged and tied up at her berth isnt a huge deviation from canon as it sounds - for one even if you have her fixed up you still need to find fuel for her planes and for her.

One question - are the American forces you have here pre or post Omega?

[Rainbow Six]

Thanks Olefin, glad you like it.

My version is based on a 01 June 2000 date, so all the US forces listed are pre Omega.

if you read the section on the Soviets, I did think it might make for quite an interesting storyline if Major Ivanova of the GRU finds out about Omega in advance from her source at HQUSNAVEUR and has to try and find a way of communicating the information to her superiors in Russia.

[Rainbow Six]

I finally made a deadline...sort of. I know I'd originally hoped to have this done by Christmas, but I have managed to make my revised deadline of the end of May with a few days to spare!

Attached a selection of marauder groups. It's obviously impossible to list every marauder group in the UK, so I've tried to present a selection that can be used as "templates" so to speak and can be relocated to other areas should a GM wish ...so for example whilst I have placed the Beasts of the Moor on Ilkley Moor, they could be just at home on Dartmoor, Glencoe, etc, etc.

As the work evolved a few groups didn't make the final cut, most notably the North Preston Front, for whom I have six different drafts saved, none of which I was happy with, so when I figured that after two weeks I didn't have something that I thought was workable, perhaps I needed to reconsider (as a comparison, Bloody Mary took me two days to write, so sometimes something just feels "right" while something else feels as though it will never get there - the NPF fell into the latter category).

A few groups also changed their names from that put forward in the Regional Guide, most noticeably the Outlaws, which became Bandito Yankee (which is in keeping wih the original material). I will at some point post an updated timeline / Regional Guide (and timeline) which will correct these changes.

A few other general comments...the Border Reivers was a joint piece with RN7, who did at least half the work, if not more. Thanks mate for your help with that. The Duke of Cornwall and Konev's Wolves have both been posted before, but putting them here keeps everything in one thread (there are a few very, very minor changes to the Duke of Cornwall).

The gang of football hooligans in Birmingham is still in progress...I have the main group done, but I think I need to develop it slightly by doing some work on the other gangs in the City, so am holding back on that one for now.

Finally, some of the material, particularly Bloody Mary and the Beasts of the Moor are probably rated as a 15 (UK) / PG13 (US) at least.

As ever, comments / feedback etc most welcome.

[Rainbow Six]

And the others...

[James Langham]

Rainbow - great articles thanks for posting. Would you object if I took elements from them and incorporated them into my own UK Guide (which is more canon based).

If it would help, I lived in Birmingham from 1987-1992 and may be able to provide any help you need. I also did a two week camp at Oakhampton so might be able to provide the odd detail there too.

Please keep writing.

[Rainbow Six]

Thanks James. I don't mind at all if you want to take parts of it for your own piece - be my guest. I will get back to you on Birmingham - I'd be most grateful for any local insights you can offer.

I've been spending a fair amount of time on this recently so plan to follow my usual practice of taking a break for a couple of weeks (which goes a long way towards maintaining my domestic harmony!) then I'll continue work on the Birmingham piece and lawful groups (East Anglians, Highland Coalition, Free City of Carlisle, plus probably a few others). Also in the pipeline are short pieces on the Dutch Government in exile (long overdue) and the Secret Intelligence Service (I originally left the SIS out delibarately as I figured it didn't really fit in to a guide to the UK, but in hindsight I think it probably warrants a short piece).

[RN7]

Great work here Rainbow Six. I think I see a few things from films here as well.

28 Days Later, Essex Boys, Bonded by Blood, Rise of the Footsoldier, The Road, The Hills have Eyes and something of Def Con 4 perhaps!

[Rainbow Six]

Thanks RN7. You're right about some of the films, although believe it or not, I've never seen the Road. Bad Company was very definitely inspired by the soldiers in 28 Days Later (to the extent I included the pic of Chris Ecclestone as Sergeant Barrett). I had originally intended to make Barrett an officer (I do have a draft where he is a Major), but I didn't want him to turn int a clone of the Duke of Cornwall and I was happy with the backstory I came up with to have him as an NCO.

The Essex Boys are definitely an amalgamation of a number of influences, including aforementioned films, but there's also meant to be a hint of Saddam Hussein and (especially) his son, Uday in there as well.

The Beasts of the Moor are basically my interpretation of the Sawney Bean legend, which I believe was indeed the inspiration for the Hills Have Eyes (amongst others).

Another couple of films that have infuenced me are Doomsday, starring Rhona Mitra and a Paul Verhoeven film from the 80's called Flesh and Blood which stareed Rutger Hauer and was set in the Middle Ages - there are probably a couple of references to both of those dotted around here and there as well.

[James Langham]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Thanks RN7. You're right about some of the films, although believe it or not, I've never seen the Road. Bad Company was very definitely inspired by the soldiers in 28 Days Later (to the extent I included the pic of Chris Ecclestone as Sergeant Barrett). I had originally intended to make Barrett an officer (I do have a draft where he is a Major), but I didn't want him to turn int a clone of the Duke of Cornwall and I was happy with the backstory I came up with to have him as an NCO.

The Essex Boys are definitely an amalgamation of a number of influences, including aforementioned films, but there's also meant to be a hint of Saddam Hussein and (especially) his son, Uday in there as well.

The Beasts of the Moor are basically my interpretation of the Sawney Bean legend, which I believe was indeed the inspiration for the Hills Have Eyes (amongst others).

Another couple of films that have infuenced me are Doomsday, starring Rhona Mitra and a Paul Verhoeven film from the 80's called Flesh and Blood which stareed Rutger Hauer and was set in the Middle Ages - there are probably a couple of references to both of those dotted around here and there as well.

I thought Beasts of the Moor was very reminiscent of a Torchwood episode from series 1 although I can't remember the name.

[Matt W]

http://www.heritagerailways.com/Visits_Map.php


I had no idea there were so many of these