What to do with the 43,000 troops and dependents from Going Home?

[Graebarde]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

While Amtrak is a craptastic .gov entity it rents time on the rails as those are private property. Even though a large rail hub may be nuked out of existence, there are all sorts of side lines that branch around a service small communities especially farm.

Alot of Rail road equipment and infrastructure will survive too as it is based in small towns too.

Rail would jump at the chance to become a people hauling entity again. There is something like 40 passenger cars in Puelbo sitting on a siding as it is not lucrative enough to run them.

The is even an operating Steam Locomotive that runs just for fans, the Toltec - Cumbres line.

Don't think most railroads would JUMP at the chance since they pushed to abolish passenger service in the first place when the started loosing money on it at the end of WW2. Took them twenty years to do it, but MOST of them wanted out of it. Now in the twilight era, I could see passenger service coming back, IF they have rail service at all.

Rail recovery would be one of the primary goals in rebuilding America. It is the most effecient means of moving tonnage of all modes. Two persons move 5000 tons hundreds of miles.. vs 250 plus semi trailers on the interstate?

While I love the steam operations, I think the emphasis would be getting the d-e engines working again. Steam is dead from lack of sufficient infastructure to readily support it, as well as the limited number of operational engines. Yes on area basis, they will be used, IF they have the perosnnel to operate and maintain them.. a whole new skill set that is a hobby now..

Fuel is still the critical point with any of the modes.. and for steam WATER is needed more often than fuel.. it takes at least six pounds of water per pound of fuel for a steam engine.. somewhere I have data on the consumption factor of steam engines, but they guzzled the water and fuel. Yes the coal and wood, or heavy oil, can and has been used, but that is intensive use of resources for other things too.

Railroading is a whole game unto itself...

BTW I was in the transportation corps as a traffic manager for the last five years of service. I was an instructor at the trans school during the end of steam in the military. They had a Consolidated (2-8-0) they fired up monthly and moved around post. Ft Eusits had a massive amount of trackage for it's size since the at one time trained military railroaders. I took a course and was awarded a 'war-time' mos as rail movements coordinator (fancy name for dispatcher, station agent, car clerk.. not the man that run the train, but told the train when it could run.. and interacted between the railroad and customers.

About the time of T2K there were still two rail operations battalions in the reserves.. still are I think. During WW2 there were a score or more battalions, each sponsored by a civilian railroad actually. It's what I think would be the picture of American railroads in T2000.

Done ramblin
Grae

[Panther Al]

Indeed- the railroads made a strong effort to make it profitable till the early 60's but they couldn't do it. The late 40's and early 50's was the best it got. the only reason passenger rail works in Europe is because the distances are much shorter and that the gov subsidizes rail massively. But it must be admitted that nothing moves people and freight like rail does.

But it's not the most efficient: that title belongs to barges. And to give them it's due, most barges are running on powerplants built inthe 60's. EMD at one time was trying to convince barge tug owners to upgrade to more modern fuel efficient powerplants, which will stretch the lead they have even more.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Alot of Rail road equipment and infrastructure will survive too as it is based in small towns too.

The short lines might still have stuff, but the Class I roads have been shucking those lines for decades. The trunk lines still run in and through major cities, and if bridges are down, then that's a big problem.

Rail would jump at the chance to become a people hauling entity again. There is something like 40 passenger cars in Puelbo sitting on a siding as it is not lucrative enough to run them.

The railroads had been trying to get rid of passenger rail as fast as they could since the '60s. Having said that, I think MilGov's going to be nationalizing things de facto, and pressing commuter coaches into use as people-haulers if they can. Freight hauling is going to be more important, anyway, as they need to knit the economy back together.

The is even an operating Steam Locomotive that runs just for fans, the Toltec - Cumbres line.

There's at least a dozen steam locomotives operating about the US in the '90s, but they take a lot of man-hours to maintain, and the specialized skills are pretty rare.

The two places MilGov will want to head to try to recover any steam locomotives are the Norfolk & Western's shops at Roanoke, VA and the museum at Strasburg PA. I can't recall if there was anything running from Roanoke in the late '90s, or if they had shut down by then. Sugar Creek in Ohio was running 4 steam locomotives in the last decade, but they've shut down in the last 5 years.

As for the rest of the railnet, diesel-electric locomotives need fuel to run, I presume some shop modifications can be made to run them on alcohol? The all-electric Northeast Corridor will need a lot of juice and wire work-- if there's a power plant running, it can be fixed.

Repairing any damaged rails is a bigger problem. I presume the railroads may have exhausted their stocks of replacement rails by 1999-2000, so you'll really want to get a steel mill working again.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

Repairing any damaged rails is a bigger problem. I presume the railroads may have exhausted their stocks of replacement rails by 1999-2000, so you'll really want to get a steel mill working again.

Not at first. So much rail that could be torn up and re-laid where needed. Think of all those rail routes that have 4, 6, 8 or more lines running into and out of major transport hubs and population centres. No need for that level of capacity for many years to come. Work crews would be tasked with ripping up excess parallel lines and re-laying the rails as required. IMHO of course.

[Webstral]

Security of the routes is the chief obstacle, I believe. A train attracts attention. The hungry locals and marauders alike will conclude that the train probably has things they need--things worth transporting. Track is vulnerable, and trains are restricted to track. Long-distance transportation by rail is going to be very difficult if it moves through areas that are not secure--which is to say very large swaths of the country in 2000 and 2001.

Barge traffic, on the other hand, has a somewhat more secure line of traffic. For this reason, I think one of the main efforts of Milgov in 2001 will be securing the coastal waterways of the Atlantic and Gulf Coasts, plus the navigable portions of the Mississippi watershed and the rivers east of the Appalachians. Knocking out or co-opting the Sea Lord of Jacksonville will be an important step. Controlling marauders along the principal river routes will be another.

The French maintained a riverine force in Indochina during their war, and the US 9th Infantry was a riverine force operating in the Mekong Delta. I wonder if a large portion of the Omegamen might not be turned into brown water Marines.

The GDW folks already thought of the powerful potential of the inland navigation system. (See attachment) An armored brigade holds the hub in southern Illinois, while strenuous efforts have been made to ensure that "the Father of Waters flows unvexed to the sea" (Abraham Lincoln). So long as traffic can move along the waterways unimpeded, the hinterland beyond the banks can wait. By the same token, a riverine force can move large tonnages of men and equipment in a very fuel-efficient fashion. Such a force can land anywhere their ships can reach. Imagine the effect on local marauders and warlords if a properly-equipped and supplied infantry brigade is brought ashore with little warning. Throw in a couple of assault guns and some folks to train the locals to form their own militia, and you've got yourself a brick in the edifice of Operation Manifest Destiny.

[Adm.Lee]

I agree that river traffic would be quicker to revive. "Pirates of the Mississippi," anyone?

Seeing as how the ships of TF34 will be arriving in November, I don't think there will be a lot of movement from the Norfolk area over the winter? Maybe spreading out a bit, south and west inland. Walking over the mountains doesn't sound like a lot of fun in winter, Interstate highways or not.

Come spring, I can see one group staying put, one heading northeast where Milgov has an outpost, one to New Orleans to help control the Mississippi and expand from there. That Sea Lord in Jacksonville will be a sticking point, and the Civgov enclave in Georgia is in the way. I think those would be my major directions for MilGov East.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

I agree that river traffic would be quicker to revive. "Pirates of the Mississippi," anyone?

More fun than you could shake a stick at.

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

That Sea Lord in Jacksonville will be a sticking point, and the Civgov enclave in Georgia is in the way. I think those would be my major directions for MilGov East.

Civgov will be a concern, to be sure. However, unless they actively interdict sea traffic I don’t believe Milgov will want to enter into conflict with them. I wonder, though, how the Sea Lord will behave. Who is he, really? What are his real motivations? Where does he see himself going? If he messes with coastal shipping, how does that play out? Lots of interesting possibilities there.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Graebarde

Don't think most railroads would JUMP at the chance since they pushed to abolish passenger service in the first place when the started loosing money on it at the end of WW2. Took them twenty years to do it, but MOST of them wanted out of it. Now in the twilight era, I could see passenger service coming back, IF they have rail service at all.

However the competition that was taking the profit out of transporting people. Namely got nuked out of business. Those Bus lines are harbored in, and operate out of cities.
Secondly, fuel is no longer cheap to burn for the profit of moving people. Refined fuel is not cheap, rationed, and mostly for Govt purposes.

Originally Posted by Graebarde

Rail recovery would be one of the primary goals in rebuilding America. It is the most effecient means of moving tonnage of all modes. Two persons move 5000 tons hundreds of miles.. vs 250 plus semi trailers on the interstate?

Exactly why I think it will be prime movement in TW2k. Also the first choice to move many people for acceptable cost in the resource poor period after the exchange of nuclear gifts.

Originally Posted by Graebarde

While I love the steam operations, I think the emphasis would be getting the d-e engines working again. Steam is dead from lack of sufficient infastructure to readily support it, as well as the limited number of operational engines. Yes on area basis, they will be used, IF they have the perosnnel to operate and maintain them.. a whole new skill set that is a hobby now..

Diesel fuel becomes the issue. I am sure they would love them but, if you can’t get fuel because there are no oil rigs, refineries, or holding tanks; alternatives have to be found.
As for the skill set. The damn machine is crawling in enthusiasts that will drown you in minutiae. Heck some will operate just because they always wanted to. A real rail mission with real freight, would be a wet dream.

Originally Posted by Graebarde

Fuel is still the critical point with any of the modes.. and for steam WATER is needed more often than fuel.. it takes at least six pounds of water per pound of fuel for a steam engine.. somewhere I have data on the consumption factor of steam engines, but they guzzled the water and fuel. Yes the coal and wood, or heavy oil, can and has been used, but that is intensive use of resources for other things too.

Doesn’t have to be drinking water just sediment free and mineral free if that can be helped. Water tanks can be improvised along the line. If it can be done in 1860 TW2k can find a way.

Originally Posted by Graebarde

About the time of T2K there were still two rail operations battalions in the reserves.. still are I think. During WW2 there were a score or more battalions, each sponsored by a civilian railroad actually. It's what I think would be the picture of American railroads in T2000.

Their still around and still recruiting for the Army Reserve.

[Legbreaker]

It all really comes down to the tracks. As has been mentioned in many places, including canon sources, tracks are often pulled up by locals after the steel. Fires can rip though a track causing untold damage to the wooden sleepers, or at least warping the tracks enough to potentially cause derailment.
Security as mentioned is also a big issue. If units are having trouble securing their fields, how are they expected to secure hundred of miles of track as well. Yes, a field of potatoes is more concentrated value than a steel track, but there's still value.

Given the vast distances tracks cover, and some rather remote locations it goes through, they're prime targets for ambushes. A train forced to stop because of a fallen log, missing section of rail, etc is a prime target for marauders bent on stealing whatever cargo is on board. Yes you can mount troops on the train with machineguns, mortars, artillery and so forth, but as has been illustrated in history, a determined attacker definately has the advantage as long as they've planned ahead and set up in a suitable location.

Rail in my view will be very important for the reconstruction of the country, but it's going to be near useless early on. Maybe by 2010 when some order has been restored, and infrastructure rebuilt, but certainly not in 2001.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

It all really comes down to the tracks. As has been mentioned in many places, including canon sources, tracks are often pulled up by locals after the steel. Fires can rip though a track causing untold damage to the wooden sleepers, or at least warping the tracks enough to potentially cause derailment.
Security as mentioned is also a big issue. If units are having trouble securing their fields, how are they expected to secure hundred of miles of track as well. Yes, a field of potatoes is more concentrated value than a steel track, but there's still value.

Given the vast distances tracks cover, and some rather remote locations it goes through, they're prime targets for ambushes. A train forced to stop because of a fallen log, missing section of rail, etc is a prime target for marauders bent on stealing whatever cargo is on board. Yes you can mount troops on the train with machineguns, mortars, artillery and so forth, but as has been illustrated in history, a determined attacker definately has the advantage as long as they've planned ahead and set up in a suitable location.

Rail in my view will be very important for the reconstruction of the country, but it's going to be near useless early on. Maybe by 2010 when some order has been restored, and infrastructure rebuilt, but certainly not in 2001.

Who is going to move what, where, and with what fuel? The trucks are being used on the fronts, the factories are nuked, the ability to pump oil and refine it gone.

During the U.S. Civil War Scout trains were used. I had a flat bed filled with stone to detonate torpedoes (mines), then flat cars with troops armed with cannon, gatlings, calliopes, and rifles, the locomotive, fuel car, water car, freight car with rations and such then a caboose. Sometime even another locomotive on the other end facing the other way to hasten a retreat.

These scout locomotives would run ahead of the troop or supply train to see that the rails were open and good. A company of Rifle infantry to secure and clean rails. Sometimes even gandydancers, rail, and ties to repair the track.

[Legbreaker]

True, 150 years ago give or take they were well organised, but they also had an intact rail system to start with plus the necessary supporting infrastructure.
When the troops arrive from Europe, they'll be faced with a rail system which has been nuked, torn up and otherwise damaged. They will not have the necessary engines, carriages, and supplies to organise trains on even the civil war level. They will also be seriously lacking heavier weapons than rifles and machineguns with the odd M203 given the restrictions placed on troop "luggage".

In my mind it will take some time to arrange the first "scout" train, and much longer before anything resembling a regular service canbe established. 10 years does not seem like an unreasonable time frame given the problems the US will face with reestablishing the necessary infrastructure and security.

Trains are not the answer to shift the Omegamen from Norfolk in 2000 or 2001. Maybe in 2002, but by then the drought will have really kicked in and movement by foot and whatever other transport can be scrounged is sure to have been used to relocate the bulk of the people (canon supports this movement, but does not specify how).

[ArmySGT.]

However, someone else arranged for the Troops from Europe to come to Norfolk. Someone with an organization planned for the arrival of these Troops. If the could not feed, move, and support them, then why bring them back at all?

There is an organization there. MilGov. MilGov has the legal authority to commandeer (US Statutes) as does FEMA (FEMA is CivGov yes?).

However they have the organizational skills, the training, and likely the manpower.

Adaption, use the assets you have to support the Commanders intent, Act on your own initiative to support the Mission. These are tenets in US Military Doctrine.

MilGov troops will strip rail from sidings, yards, and spurs to build a route around nuked areas. Rail does go through Major cities, however there are miles and miles of track just to support all the small communities and farms. At this point it is not about speed, it is about economy. Rail and who controls it will be in a position to move resources, equipment, and personnel to viable places while cannibalizing anything else.

MilGov will be preparing for those Troops to comeback because there will be a plan to use them somewhere.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I can think of nothing that would engender good will and gratitude to MilGov than by hiring contractors to get buses (bluebird school buses, mind you), trucks, vans, horsedrawn carts and whatever else up and working on behalf of troop resettlement. Pay with food and medical supplies, possibly gold and C16 ammo? Hell yeah. Net result: MilGov pays pretty good and getting on this reconstruction job is a good deal.

Also as to what to do with them (the troops) I can see a lot being employed to help start digging out DC.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

However, someone else arranged for the Troops from Europe to come to Norfolk. Someone with an organization planned for the arrival of these Troops. If the could not feed, move, and support them, then why bring them back at all?

Politics, as I have already indicated. Also, the military only needs to feed them until they are demobilised or otherwise moved on. Once they're cut loose, they're responsible for their own upkeep, just like many of the troops already were before leaving Poland.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

MilGov troops will strip rail from sidings, yards, and spurs to build a route around nuked areas. Rail does go through Major cities, however there are miles and miles of track just to support all the small communities and farms. At this point it is not about speed, it is about economy. Rail and who controls it will be in a position to move resources, equipment, and personnel to viable places while cannibalizing anything else.

Absolutely and I totally agree they will be doing those things, what I am saying is that it won't happen overnight. It's a long and slow process made longer and slower due to a crippling lack of heavy machinery and the trains will not be available for use for a substantial amount of time, time they will not have due to the drought.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

MilGov will be preparing for those Troops to comeback because there will be a plan to use them somewhere.

What units will be already onsite preparing for the arrival? How much work can they really get done in the relatively short time available and while they themselves are scrounging around for enough to eat? The US is beyond being on it's knees, it's laying face down on the canvas, barely hanging onto consciousness. There's almost nothing available to carry out any significant works to prepare for the coming influx of troops.

My guess is the organisers saw the operation as having more in common with an amphibious landing - very little useful infrastructure or immediately useful supplies available to hand and everything needed for at least the first month had to be shipped in. This may explain why everyone aboard was limited to just 100kgs of gear - the rest of the cargo space was taken up with tents, a few light vehicles, food, field kitchens, medical supplies, and the other necessities of life.

[agrikk]

Woah! When I posted this and received a "Amtrak" response, I though okay, cool. Amtrak. But then I came back to check and found 42 replies I was stoked! Thanks for the input, guys. It'll help a ton!

Originally Posted by Targan

If you don't have this excellent source of T2K material then I can't urge you strongly enough to obtain them.

I've been tempted to buy the CDs for a while, but never had a real reason since I own most of the modules in hardcopy. But now that I see there's a wealth of information in the Challenge articles, I bought them last night.

I'm kinda partial to the Amtrak idea, simply because my players didn't take the Last Train to Clarksville and I always felt they missed out. My players will probably stick around Norfolk for a while before being organized into some kinds of special operations unit and running a mission to NYC to recover some gold.

I think I am going to organize the returning troops into the reacivated and called up 77th Regional Support Command which has a mandate to support FEMA during "natural or manmade disasters", but in this case replace FEMA with MilGov under the soon to be lost 12th Corps. (Support insted of Readiness because it didn't get renamed to Readiness until 2003...). Of the 43,000, I'm going to say that around 15,000 make it to the shores of the US as combat effectives. The rest peel off to the Middle East or wherever and the rest are civilian staff, contrators and dependents.

My plan is to use the 77th as a marker of the dissolution of the United States: the characters will leave for NYC as the unit is being formed as a full division but every time they return to Norfolk after weeks away, they see the 77th reformed as a brigade, then a handful of battalions under 12th Corps, then finally dissolving altogether upon being ordered to reinforce the 78th at Fort Dix.

Originally Posted by Fusilier

Although it can't realistically handle a large fraction of all of those troops, there are military convoys between Norfolk and Muskogee (Oklahoma), by way of Greensboro, Nashville, Memphis and Little Rock.

I am going to use this as a factor that ultimately dooms the 77th. It will never make it off the Norfolk enclave as a fighting unit as it is pulled apart to reinforce other units, convoys to Muskogee and desertions take their toll.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Most, if not all Coast Guard vessels are painted white, is that correct? Would they have received a naval grey coat at some point?

Straight fom the Ships and Aircraft of the US Fleet...

"The US Coast Guard is a separate military service under the Department of Transportation. It is responsible for the enforcement of US laws in coastal waters and on the high seas subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. In addition, since 1985, the Coast Guard has had coastal defense responsibilities for the US Atlantic coast and, since 1986, for the US Pacific coast."

"At the direction of the president, the Coast Guard can become part of the Navy (as during both world wars) or it can operate in a war zone while remaining an independent service (as happened in Korea and Vietnam)."

So the answer to your question really depends on what action the president took. But once the naval war started heating up, I'd expect the coasties would have gone "haze grey" rather quickly.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Graebarde

Don't think most railroads would JUMP at the chance since they pushed to abolish passenger service in the first place when the started loosing money on it at the end of WW2. Took them twenty years to do it, but MOST of them wanted out of it. Now in the twilight era, I could see passenger service coming back, IF they have rail service at all.

Rail recovery would be one of the primary goals in rebuilding America. It is the most effecient means of moving tonnage of all modes. Two persons move 5000 tons hundreds of miles.. vs 250 plus semi trailers on the interstate?

While I love the steam operations, I think the emphasis would be getting the d-e engines working again. Steam is dead from lack of sufficient infastructure to readily support it, as well as the limited number of operational engines. Yes on area basis, they will be used, IF they have the perosnnel to operate and maintain them.. a whole new skill set that is a hobby now..

Fuel is still the critical point with any of the modes.. and for steam WATER is needed more often than fuel.. it takes at least six pounds of water per pound of fuel for a steam engine.. somewhere I have data on the consumption factor of steam engines, but they guzzled the water and fuel. Yes the coal and wood, or heavy oil, can and has been used, but that is intensive use of resources for other things too.

Railroading is a whole game unto itself...

BTW I was in the transportation corps as a traffic manager for the last five years of service. I was an instructor at the trans school during the end of steam in the military. They had a Consolidated (2-8-0) they fired up monthly and moved around post. Ft Eusits had a massive amount of trackage for it's size since the at one time trained military railroaders. I took a course and was awarded a 'war-time' mos as rail movements coordinator (fancy name for dispatcher, station agent, car clerk.. not the man that run the train, but told the train when it could run.. and interacted between the railroad and customers.

About the time of T2K there were still two rail operations battalions in the reserves.. still are I think. During WW2 there were a score or more battalions, each sponsored by a civilian railroad actually. It's what I think would be the picture of American railroads in T2000.

Done ramblin
Grae

Canadian Army has something about a portable railway system what was underdelvopment?

[agrikk]

Originally Posted by LAW0306

Check out chico's page. two years of work went into what he came up with.

Here's his site:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeedox4/


and by the way, the illustrated guide to Krakow on that site freaking OWNS.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

It is responsible for the enforcement of US laws in coastal waters and on the high seas subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. In addition, since 1985, the Coast Guard has had coastal defense responsibilities for the US Atlantic coast and, since 1986, for the US Pacific coast."

I'm only guessing here, but the coast guard vessels seem unlikely to carry missiles or much weaponry heavier than 76mm. Given the relatively light armament (compared to true warships), what roles might they be employed in during the war?

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I'm only guessing here, but the coast guard vessels seem unlikely to carry missiles or much weaponry heavier than 76mm. Given the relatively light armament (compared to true warships), what roles might they be employed in during the war?

Roles for a high endurance cutter will change from 1997 to 2000. With the destruction of so much of the world's tonnage and inability to put the remaining heavy ships to sea, lighter combatants that offer good fuel efficiency will have a place. For instance, while Gallatin does not carry her own missiles prior to the war, she is armed with a Phalanx CIWS and chaff launchers. Provided the electronics supporting the CIWS are working, Gallatin has a fair chance of surviving against a single inbound missile. During the fight I mentioned earlier, Gallatin is operating with other surface combatants against a squadron of light Soviet combatants. Missiles are in short supply. By sheer good fortune, the NATO group gets a targeting solution first and launch their available missiles. The Soviets reply, but the fast attack ships aren't carrying full complements of missiles. The exchange is unequal, and Gallatin is able to shoot down a single inbound SSM with her CIWS. Once the gunnery duel begins, the 76mm gun of Gallatin outranges the lighter autocannon of the Soviet corvettes. Gallatin takes some hits in the gunnery duel, but she is able to limp home with a kill-and-a-half to her credit.

Prior to the nuclear exchange, USCG vessels would be used for port security, search & rescue, and pretty much what they do today. They would be vulnerable to missile-armed Soviet warships and strike aircraft, so USCG vessels would have to be used for missions in which they either weren't exposed to these threats or operated as part of a larger group that could deal with these threats. After the nuclear exchange, all bets are off. This is why there are so few operational USCG vessels in 2001: they get used for everything and suffer high attrition as a result.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I'm only guessing here, but the coast guard vessels seem unlikely to carry missiles or much weaponry heavier than 76mm. Given the relatively light armament (compared to true warships), what roles might they be employed in during the war?

WHEC-717 "Mellon" had been fitted with Harpoons and Mk-46 (including ASW suits) and successfully fired them. USCG cutters are obviously designed to receive additional weaponries. It is also almost certain that medium range cutters would also receive at least an ASW suits.

What roles: convoy and commerce escort, ASW patrol, manning of older ships and civilian vessels taken over to perform more traditional coast guard duties.

Of course, all of this depends on the US president decision but the Twilight War has nothing in common with either Korea or Vietnam. Unlike these two conflicts (or the current ongoing one), it directly threaten US sea lanes in a very substantial manner and from the beginning. Actually, USCG would probably perform escort and ASW missions as early as 1995 as they were in WW2 and by January 1996, they would probably be already collaborating with the Chinese in order to loosen the Soviet Navy grip over China Sea.

US ambassador at Moscow on February 6, 1996 "Of course, Yuri, we have been informed of the loss of your cruiser, the Sebastopol, and I want you to know that we present you with our condolences to the families of your sailors. Really was one of our High Sea Coast Guard Cutter invloved? I'm sorry to hear that but this ship was performing regular high sea patrols in the area and it must have inadvertently informed the Chinese of that cruiser of yours position. All our appologies and I can already ensure you that we were not actively involved as we were for KMS Bismarck, 50 years ago. Your KGB officers are overwhelimingly paranoy as usual...".

[Matt W]

I have the "scout vehicle" for your Amtrak expedition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta4eTNw5wIg

[schnickelfritz]

Track/Right of Way/Facilities inspection and maintenance of US Railroads (ans I would assume Canadian as well--CN has a main a few miles away and I see a lot of the same equipment with "CN" on the side) is typically done by what is known as "Hi-Rail" or "Hy-Rail" equipment. These are civillian market vehicles from 3/4 ton on up that have rail equipment fore and aft that can be retracted to allow use on standard roads. These go all the way up to three axle 2 to 5 ton trucks.

I can only imagine that similar equipment would be used (after fuel conversion) to scout and inspect right of ways. The MilGov leadership would need to ID logical routes needed in the short, medium, and long term. From there armed manpower would be drawn from the Omega pool and used to protect individuals tasked with rebuilding the rail infrastructure and maintaining said along the routes identified. This includes salvage operations. While some unwanted salvage would have occurred, most mainline rail in the CONUS is 100 pounds or better per foot, and typically welded in large sections. Carting a measurable amount off would be most likely impossible. And to use for what?

Irregardless, there will be so much rail material in yards and branch lines that there will be plenty to use for repairs/reconstruction until industry can produce more.

The biggest issue I see with rail use is repairs or reconstruction of storm damage, particularly washouts.

Prior to the widespread use of heavy machinery, this work was all done with hand tools and some smaller machines...the manpower pool can come from refugees. You want a job with a paycheck and food for your family? Come joing the Civillian Recontruction Corps Battalion in your area. I just picked that name from thin air, but what I see is very similar to what was done here in the 1930's under The New Deal.

Most of the motive power used to get the US rail network will probably come from branch lines, small railroads, museums, and industrial sites that have smaller, older engines that are big enough to do what movement is needed, are largely emp-immune, are easier on track/roadbed than the huge modern mainline engines, and much easier on fuel and far more tolerant of fuel purity. A lot of these 1950's diesels will burn whatever will burn.

I cannot and will not accept that thousands of US service personnel will be tossed out into the cold after their return...that makes no sense to me at all. The logical thing to do would be to use them as a cadre and as skilled specialists (where applicable) to help restore order, power, and utilities. What has been done before about a US reconstruction timeline was fantastic.

Thanks-
Dave

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by schnickelfritz

I cannot and will not accept that thousands of US service personnel will be tossed out into the cold after their return...that makes no sense to me at all. The logical thing to do would be to use them as a cadre and as skilled specialists (where applicable) to help restore order, power, and utilities. What has been done before about a US reconstruction timeline was fantastic.

Exactly. Manpower and Training especially when replacements is all but impossible. I cannot believe that de-mobilization would be on either MilGov or CivGovs agendas.

There is a front in Alaska and the U.S. Southwest begging for combat experienced Troops.

Reconstruction takes people. Even if the Navy can't use them because the Fleets are sunk, there are Ports to repair, civilian shipping to refloat, and offshore oil rigs that need support crews. The Air Force with all of their technicians and support people would be critical getting civilian craft in the air, re-establishing a National level communication infrastructure, rebuilding power grids while the Navy fixes the reactors, etc.

The Army would be taking back the lower 48, training replacements, and lending in big construction projects with the Corps of Engineers. Dam Locks, High bridges, New rail depots, relocating factories, securing depots and ammunition plants.

Those 43,000 people are critical to the reconstruction effort. Doesn't matter if they are no longer combat effectives, as they are reliable, dependable, they can follow orders (very difficult learned trait), and will have a myriad of skills... Idiotic to through them out, a near guarantee they would become hostile and anti Government.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by schnickelfritz

Track/Right of Way/Facilities inspection and maintenance of US Railroads (ans I would assume Canadian as well--CN has a main a few miles away and I see a lot of the same equipment with "CN" on the side) is typically done by what is known as "Hi-Rail" or "Hy-Rail" equipment. These are civilian market vehicles from 3/4 ton on up that have rail equipment fore and aft that can be retracted to allow use on standard roads. These go all the way up to three axle 2 to 5 ton trucks.

That sort of hydraulically activated rail equipment has been extensively discussed in a previous thread (it was quite a while back though). We have vast stretches of rail line here in Australia, especially where the inland iron ore mines need to get their ores to the export ports along the coast. I've seen dozens of those sorts of hi-rail hybrid vehicles in the north-west of Western Australia. The Pilbara rail lines need very regular inspections because the extreme heat can warp the tracks and also some of the ore trains are literally several kilometers long so a derailment can be extremely expensive (it take a couple of kilometers to stop those big ore trains so when they derail it can be a nightmare to clean up).

[Legbreaker]

Nobody is saying they're ALL getting demobilised. Those who want to go are likely to be recognised as probable deserters after a relatively short period (possibly after the first thousand disappear over the nearest hill) and demobilisation on a voluntary basis instituted in an effort to prevent those people taking valuable military resources (ie weapons) with them.
Also, as has been pointed out, we're not actually talking about 43,000 military personnel here. 6,000 went to the middle east. Another substantial portion are civilians (lets call it 10% or 4,300), and then there's the permanently disabled from wounds, illness or radiation poisoning, say another 10% (which I judge very low given the length of the war and lack of evacuations and reinforcements).
This leaves us with just 28,400 military personnel.
Now lets take out those shipped to ports other than Norfolk. Shall we say another 10%?
Now we've got 24,100.
How about naval and air force personnel with little use on land, such as cooks, clerks, missile techs (like they're going to be needed post war on more than a reserve basis), navigators, helmsmen, airframe fitters and so forth. At most they'd be assigned a reserve status, subject to recall in the unlikely event they're needed again. I know, lets call that group a conservative 10%
So we're down to 19,800 useful troops.
Of that number, there's going to be some who head for the hills at the first opportunity, taking anything and everything that's not nailed down. Might only be a handful immediately, but as fears of a food shortage kick in around day 3, that trickle will likely turn to a flood.
Voluntary demobilisation, as previously stated, at least puts some sort of a control on what is walking out the door. Perhaps the sweetener is NOT facing a potential firing squad for desertion, AND Milgov provides a parting gift of a couple of weeks food and basic supplies.

Yes, troops could be retrained to cover needed skillsets, but that takes time. Time, which we all know, Milgov doesn't have. Reducing the military's food and support requirements are critical concerns and must be attended to if they have any hope of retaining control of even a cadre of useful personnel.

[Fusilier]

I can't see a significant number of them being let go as they step off the boat simply because of the food issue. Who is going to feed these people? They're basically a small city. Virginia is in effect a third world country now and I doubt they have a food surplus that can be just handed over in that kind of scale.

The brigade in North Carolina had to evacuate from a forest fire and drought and they're less than 2000 strong. 43,000 is a lot of mouths.

Dispersing them seems the most likely outcome to me. If the ships can cross the Atlantic, then they reach other places along the coast as well I'd imagine.

[Adm.Lee]

I went and peeked at Howling Wilderness again. When I suggested that steaming around Florida to get to the mouth of the Mississippi would be easier than walking over the Alleghenies to get to the headwaters of the Ohio, I had forgotten that 'Ole Man River' had broken the levees and was now routing south through the Atchafalaya. Meaning New Orleans is cut off and there is a new delta.

Unless someone (Army Corps of Engineers, Coast Guard's Eighth District, Navy's Caribbean elements) has mapped and charted those new channels, it's going to be a mite tougher to get upriver. Since we know that the Fifth Army is holding on to the upper and middle Mississippi, that suggests there is at least traffic up there. I'd be hopeful that someone has already done that.

[Legbreaker]

My guess is only the locals really know where the new channels are. Could be fun for a group of PCs to convince the "good ole boys" down south to act as pilots, guides, what-have-you, especially if the PC group includes "furiners".

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I'm only guessing here, but the coast guard vessels seem unlikely to carry missiles or much weaponry heavier than 76mm. Given the relatively light armament (compared to true warships), what roles might they be employed in during the war?

The Coasties use 5-inch/38s, 76mm/62 Compacts and 3-inch/50s for heavy armament, they also use Mark 19 40mm, Mark 67 20mm, .50-caliber and 7.62mm as well as a 81mm mortar/.50-caliber combo.

The high- and medium-endurance cutters are fitted with hull-mounted sonars and have space to have Mk32 324mm ASW torpedo tubes with Mark46 torpedoes. While their helos are normally unarmed, they have operated
SH-2F ASW helos.

Their defensive role is mostly as patrol craft with limited ASW capability (pretty much "Periscope to Starboard!" sort of thing; their sonars are Korean War vintage). Some of the Congressional Records mention the coasties having a convoy escort role, but flipping through some of the various books, I'm afraid that their role would be either as rescue ships or as targets for incoming missiles.

The vast majority of the USCG Fleet is harbor patrol/inland waterway patrol craft, better suited to chasing off enemy divers and explosive-laden speed boats.