Encounter Group #24 Snake Eaters

[ArmySGT.]

Name: Snake Eaters
Geographical Location: Anywhere
H&M Average:12
H&M Range 8-16
Number found : 2-12
Tech Level: A
Power / Resources : A smaller version of the Project backed by the U.S. Military.
Weapons: Any modern weapons including a possible laser.
Special Attributes: Especially interested in the Morrow Project.

Special Forces teams of American Green Berets and Canadian Commandos. Frozen before the war with the express purpose to find out what the Morrow Project is. They were triggered to wake up on the release of a Morrow wake up signal. Reasonable men but, fast and vicious when necessary. They can be fiercely loyal, talk fast or else. Experts in all forms of warfare.

[mikeo80]

We have been talking about the GB in other part of Morrow Forum.

But one thing to keep in mind, read what a single A Team did in the module "Ruins of Chicago". 12 men built and still maintain a working outpost near Chicago. Yes, they have had losses. But the survivors are still working, still surviving. AND they have a sense of humor. Fort Morrow indeed!!!

And there is also the other side of the GB. Their motto. They live it, they breath it. They will DIE for it.

So if you have that odd Morrow team who wants to take what is NOT theirs...

The Green Berets will make it right..... Count on it.

My $0.02

Mike

[Gelrir]

From TM 1-1:

"Frozen before the war with the express purpose to find out what the Morrow Project is. They were triggered to wake up on the release of a Morrow wake up signal."

From "The Ruins of Chicago", mostly around pg. 12-14:

" ... ordered only to find out about the Morrow Project."

" ... drawn from volunteers at the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center in June of 1985. The Federal Government was very curious about something going on known only as "The Morrow Project". Vague rumours were all they had to go on, but some SF A-teams, made up of volunteers with few family ties, were frozen in order to find out what they could. No one suspected the true nature and duration of The Morrow Project. So, as usual, the A-teams were "left hanging".

"(Captain Bauer) familiarized with his team for six months and they were frozen in 1985."

So freezing was presumably in December of 1985. Note the scenario was published in 1983.

Page 24 mentions a cache; pg. 25 lists some equipment that was presumably stashed with the frozen team.

They don't seem to have any anachronistic equipment in Chicago; their cryogenic capsules and power supply are presumably at Woodstock (about 50 miles from Chicago).

From "Damocles", pg11:

"Construction of Damocles began in 1980 and was scheduled to take 7 years to complete."

Note the scenario was published in 1982.

pg. 29:

"U.S. government research teams broke the fusion power deadlock in 1985. In this room one of the first fusion reactors furnished power for the Damocles complex."

The reactor is 18 cubic meters in volume, and "has sufficient fuel to operate until the year 2300."

So: deductions.

• Snake Eater teams have a bulky fusion reactor in their boltholes, along with a good supply of weaponry either in the bolthole, or in caches. Their reactors are too big to be used as a power supply for any reasonable "overland" vehicle.
• the 20 year fuel supply for Project reactors is a lot less than the 300 year supply for Army reactors; of course, most Project reactors have already been operating for 150+ years, the 'fuel supply' description might be just a simplification of the different amount of fuel remaining.
• The Rich Five and Frozen Chosen might have just as easily gotten their technical assistance from Federal programs. If the Department of Energy reactors are much bulkier than Project reactors, that might explain why no Rich Five/KFS or Frozen Chosen fusion-powered vehicles are described in the published material.
• given the late-Seventies date of the original game, it's possible that Dockery, Sadler and Tucholka expected fusion power to be available in a general way by 1989 -- not secret, just very expensive. Sort of like space travel, say, or supersonic aircraft.
• the Federal Government didn't know where many (any?) Morrow Project teams were located; the sample team in Ruins of Chicago certainly didn't.

If I ever have Snake Eaters meet up with MP characters, I'd really want to work up more about those "vague rumors", to make Snake Eater reactions more interesting.

I mean: if the rumor was "the Project is going to wake up after a nuclear war", would the Snake Eaters be the proper response? The rumors have to result in freezing Special Forces teams as (part of) the most rational response. The rumors should not be something that paints the Project as a James Bond villain group from the start (like "The Spy Who Loved Me" and "Moonraker", say).

We also don't know that "Operation Freeze-An-A-Team" was the only response by the Federal government ... just the part that's still around to make a difference in 2139.

Heh, TM 1-1 doesn't actually say that Morrow Industries didn't introduce fusion power publicly ... or that it remained a "secret known only to the Project". The secret nature of fusion power is a reasonable assumption from the published game, but it's not made an explicit condition.

Anyone had any good thoughts on what the United States government might have learned (or mistakenly assumed) about the Project?

--
Michael B.

[RandyT0001]

From "Ruins of Chicago":

The team was activated some four years ago, presumably by a Morrow signal meant for some other team.

IIRC, in the Prime Base module it stated that due to the (Krell) attack the computers were damaged. Instead of sending out scores of signals a day to activate teams only one activation signal per day (or week) is sent out. (I have not been able to find any of my old copies of the modules except RoC.) In another module (maybe in PB as well) there was a statement that the Feds knew some of the activation signals but not all. The Feds then used these few known signals to activate their frozen SF teams. The SF and MP teams were not always in close proximity to each other.

It is my impression that Feds didn't find out about MP until 1984-1985. Their response was to freeze a few SF teams per year, under secret CIA budgets, using newly discovered cyro tube technology (still somewhat "experimental"). The Feds knew that MP was involved in a upcoming nuclear world war within a few years time but didn't know exactly when, therefore, each year, a few SF teams were frozen using the latest advance in cyro tube tech.

I don't think that the SF or MP boltholes "officially" used fusion power for energy requirements. I think it was left unanswered because they were only supposed to be frozen five years and if MP fusion packs only last 20 years then how would you explain the survival of the MP teams after 150 years? Remember that alot of things are driven by plot necessities, somewhat independent to reality or "predicted reality" like Damocles 300+ year fusion power supply.

[Gelrir]

I think the best assumption about the Project reactors is that 20 years is how long they can continue to produce power at full power. Running a few hundred watts or so in the bolthole doesn't use up much of their nuclear fuel.

The question I'm really asking in my previous post is, "What does the Federal government think the Morrow Project is?" If the answer is only, "Involved in an upcoming nuclear war in a few years," I think that landing on Morrow Industries with both feet might be more appropriate.

Imagine this as a high-level government briefing circa 1984:

"Sir, it's backed by at least one of the major defense contractors. They fully expect that a nuclear war will occur within the next decade, and apparently they are preparing some sort of secure communications system, to be activated and operated within the United States after the war. Who would be communicating, about what, from where and to whom, we don't know. We do have a lot of samples of their encrypted broadcasts, probably test transmissions; we haven't been able to extract any useful intelligence out of them."

"So Morrow Industries is part of this ... project? And Bruce Morrow? If this outfit are using the name 'Morrow Project' he's got to be deep in it."

"Well, there are some odd gaps in our records on him, sir -- apparently he just vanished for several years before 1979. Even now, long periods of time -- months -- go by during which we have no clue about his location."

"Is there any chance he's a Soviet agent, preparing some sort of strategic network inside the U.S.? Or some kind of double, returned in 1979? Some kind of 'Manchurian Candidate' thing?"

"We can't rule it out, sir, although we haven't found any links to the Soviets or Chinese."

"What do you recommend? Should the FBI pick Morrow up for questioning?"

"He's fairly high-profile sir, and we haven't got anything solid on what he's up to. Plus, as I said, he's often in hiding; our guess is he may have some sort of bunker or shelter. But we can try, if that's what you want."

"Why do they expect a war to occur? Are they planning to cause a war?"

"We don't know, sir."

So: given that, what else would be appropriate for the U.S. government to know, so that freezing a bunch of Green Berets seems like the best way to investigate? Whatever it is, it can't have made the Government believe the Morrow Project was part of the cause of a war -- or the Government would have been pulling in everyone who ever worked for Morrow Industries for questioning. "Vague rumors" have to be more substantial than "I heard in a bar" ...

I've got the "Rogue 417" CD; the articles and stories on there depict the U.S. government finding out about the Project, though perhaps only as something Bruce Morrow was up to ("Morrow built some sort of fortress"), three months before the War. An FBI agent infiltrates a Morrow base in South Dakota, and the National Science Advisor got a report from the infiltrator literally on the day of the Atomic War. Clearly not enough time to set up a bunch of cryogenically frozen soldiers to investigate "The Morrow Project" -- well, not enough time to recruit the volunteers and give them special training. The information on that CD isn't canon, but it gives some idea of what Robert Sadler and Richard Tucholka had in mind. Copyright dates are 1973 to 1975.

A possible premise (though it contradicts the background in "Ruins of Chicago"): if the government had various secret bunkers in existence, with cryogenic berths and possibly fusion reactors -- intended as backups to Damocles, or for whatever other purpose -- and if the government only has hours, days or a week's warning about "Morrow is gonna shut himself away on X date" -- it might explain a relatively "quick and expedient" Snake Eater project. "We have some cryogenic berths prepared in the bunker at Greenbrier; get a team in there just in case, and tell them ... well, they'll know if Morrow's prediction is correct." This would require the Feds to only "catch on" about the Project just before the War, and would partly explain why they don't have much information, and didn't do anything during the 1980s.

--
Michael B.

[Gelrir]

After talking with some friends: the physical outcome (soldiers frozen by the Government, to investigate the Morrow Project), and the encounter text, are already determined canonically. What would be useful to know is what the Snake Eaters have been told about the Project. You get very different reactions from these briefings, for example:

"Idealistic scientists hoping to rebuild America after a nuclear war."

and

"Soviet agents preparing for a possible nuclear attack."

Or even:

"Bruce Morrow is one of half-a-dozen right-wing industrialists who are preparing shelters and bunkers, with cryogenic capsules and fusion reactors, to survive and re-emerge after a possible nuclear war. They are gathering hundreds or even thousands of followers, and have access to modern military equipment."

After all, to the Federal government in the Eighties, there might not have been any perceptible difference between the Morrow Project and the Rich Five. Depending on your view of where the Rich Five got their cryogenic equipment, there may not have been as much difference as the Project would hope.


--
Michael B.

[ArmySGT.]

The answer to these questions is located on this CD-ROM from Tri Tac Games.... One of the original stories to go with 1st edition Morrow Project.
Fringeworthy Classic

The supplemental games "Rogue 417" and "Invasion USA" were possible alternates for the disaster that crushes civilization instead of a nuclear showdown. There also there as Soviets you can reuse in Morrow Project or if you want to game as a team that does actually wake up 5 years after.

[ArmySGT.]

There is no reason subsidiaries of Morrow Industries or the Council of Tomorrow were not consultants to or subcontractors to National Labs like Sandia.

Therefore, technologies can have "breakthroughs". In this way the Project can leak fusion and cryogenics to the FedGov. So NASA has a cryogenics breakthrough for the manned mission to Mars. The Dept of Energy has a break through in fusion power at the facility sized scale or shipboard scale. Department of Health and Human services has many breakthroughs in treatments for infectious diseases, chelation of radioactive isotopes, burn unit care, etc.

[Gelrir]

But the information presented in the Very Old Timeline Stuff (on the 'Rogue 417' CD) don't lead to the Snake Eaters presented in TM 1-1.

In the story presented as "what the Feds know about the Project", they only know (at the Cabinet level) about the Project literally minutes before the Atomic War; AND all they know is that the Project are idealistic, good-guy scientists. If that's the case, then the Snake Eaters aren't going to be frozen to discover what the Project is up to -- the government knows what the Project is up to, but doesn't have much reason to freeze Green Berets to watch it; and not much time to do so.

They might freeze Green Berets -- or whoever else is on hand -- to re-emerge after the Atomic War; but there would be no reason to synchronize the wake-up to the Morrow Project's signals.

--
Michael B.

[stormlion1]

They could "know" there "idealistic, good-guy scientists" all they want, but in the end there NOT the US Government. Do you really think they would leave the rebuilding to a group that wasn't affiliated with the US Government no matter how good there intentions? They don't know who the teams are, there history or the Projects long term goals and plans. So putting some Green Berets under to keep an eye on the Morrow Teams would be a plan and probably one of several but the only one that got further than the planning stages.
As for using the Morrow Teams wake up signals it makes kind of sense, the US Government may not know when the Morrow Teams plan to wake up, just that they do so using the Teams signal solves two problems, the US Government doesn't have to come up with there own timetable, they just piggyback on the Morrow timetable and they don't have to develop a system to check to see if the Morrow Teams are awake or not.

[Gelrir]

Well, two issues with that:

• If we believe the Project is all about rebuilding ... why aren't we burying our own rebuildy-ness stuff? Though yes, if they only have a very short warning (not enough time to dig more bunkers) the government response might be just a few Special Forces guys. But canonically they have five years ...
  
• Why use (only) the Project wake-up signal? The government should be able to detect the apocalypse. If only there were some big computer, in a super-secret bunker, with super-hardened communication links, hidden deep in the wilds of Michigan!

As an aspect of strategic planning, you'd think Damocles would be told about the Morrow Project and the Snake Eaters. "Uh, yes, Damocles, we're pretty much convinced that an atomic war will occur within five years or so. Keep an eye on these types of transmissions, they'll probably get very busy just before or after the war. And once the war has happened, if you haven't heard otherwise, send out signals like this to wake up some teams of Special Forces soldiers."

Which actually fits with canon -- after all, plenty of Morrow teams are depicted as being activated by Damocles. Why not some Snake Eaters, as well, with perhaps a more informative stream of information from the big ol' computer? Although, it's stated in the "Damocles" scenario that his knowledge of the Morrow Project is erased if he's restarted ... apparently he has very volatile memory! Probably just as well for the members of the Morrow teams -- otherwise within a few weeks or months after "getting into" the Damocles complex, teams of Snake Eaters would be arriving to ( a ) grab them and ( b ) restore Damocles to Federal control.

If you believe "nuclear war is inevitable within as little as five years", plenty of other actions are possible -- most of which don't affect the published game. Reviving the Civil Defense shelter programs; arms treaties with the Soviet Union; strategic missile defense systems; big ol' supercomputer in Michigan ...

--
Michael B.

[Gelrir]

Pondering it a bit: Damocles may have considered the canonical "Snake Eaters" as the last reserve to investigate the Morrow Project. For all we know, hundreds or thousands of people were frozen by the government ... in much the same manner as the Rich Five ... and then woke up a year, or five years, or ten years after the War. Without Morrow Industries Magic, their efforts to rebuild America were doomed ... or they turned into warlords, or were suborned by the Rich Five (whose companies may well have been building the government's cryogenic capsules, for example).

Thus, Damocles may have been "saving" a last few Snake Eater teams for the Morrow Project. Their original orders (when they were awake) may not have mentioned much about the Project -- one among a multitude of important things to do after the apocalypse; but when they awaken, Damocles says "check out the MP".

Which all leads to: why aren't there Snake Eater teams looking into the Rich Five, or the Frozen Chosen? The Rich Five are, within an order of magnitude, about the same size as the Morrow Project. Of course, nothing says there weren't such Snake Eater teams; or that the Rich Five aren't on the general Snake Eater target list.

"Hmm, who to chase after: idealistic scientists dedicating to rebuilding America ... or, a bunch of neo-fascists who've built up a slave empire? Sergeant, plot us a route to Kentucky!"

--
Michael B

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

why aren't there Snake Eater teams looking into the Rich Five, or the Frozen Chosen? The Rich Five are, within an order of magnitude, about the same size as the Morrow Project.

There was a (one) Snake Eater mentioned in Fallback. He was working with TMP. Once the MARS team woke up to support the Ag team, the SE was a great way to throw monkey wrenches into the MARS smugness that too many players portray. He wants to know EXACTLY How, When, Where the MARS team is going to hit the KFS troops that are POURING into the area. He wants to know EXACTLY where the backup is, where are the supplies, where is the rally point, where do we go if SNAFU hits. Granted no plan survives first contact with the enemy. Murphy is ALIVE and well. but still you have to try and out plan or have an idea what the hell you are going to do when Murphy comes calling. And he will!!!!

In my mind a GREAT plot device. The Snake Eater should be run by the GM. OR by someone who was a SF person.

My $0.02

Mike

[stormlion1]

Its entirely possible the US Government started to create more in the way of a Fallback position for its own rebuilding, but priority's were made and certain projects went to the top of the list. Its entirely possible that the President, Congress, Joint Chiefs, and several other agency's also had Bolt Holes built for them. The difference is those people who would occupy them wouldn't go into the freeze until the end was nigh, while Snake Eaters (they would want the best), and maybe some other military personnel could be approached and volunteer and then enter cryo ahead of time. There might be bunkers empty except for supply's and unused Cryotubes all around the continental United States set up for so-called important government personnel that were never used because the people who were to use them got caught in the attacks and ended up living or dying in the aftermath.
It might be interesting to come up with a operational US Government Plan to deal with the aftermath of a known nuclear attack with the use of usable cryo tech. I could easily see the planners giving importance to getting people into safety who would be useless in a rebuilding period, storing equipment and tools in salt mines, and then putting in equipment for security after the fact. And then when the event happens nothing being ready but the stuff that was easiest to set up and the stuff that took the least amount of effort.

[ArmySGT.]

The Snake Eaters can be a minimalist effort by the DoD to follow orders but, not really follow orders. This is a period before SOCCOM and the 4 Stars in charge don't really like the SOF community.

The Civil Defense would of course be FEMA, which already has facilities at Raven Rock, Mt. Weather EOC and others........ So what they got was folded into their national facility or rolled into one of the regionals.

Not to mention Senators and Congressmen diverting funds or effort for themselves or to their constituencies.

The hubris of politicians and bureaucrats probably prevented alot of pre-war freeze. These people expected to be there leading and managing the situation. So they died along with everyone else.

If you want this can explain cryotubes and other assets in the hands of the "New Presidencies".

Snake Eaters makes for some highly trained and motivated people the big Army generals won't miss.

[stormlion1]

What I wonder is what kind of equipment were the Snake Eaters buried with, Bolt Holes like the Morrow team, permanent bases they can operate out of. Basements of buildings? That is the big question for me.

[Gelrir]

For all we know, 90% of the Snake Eater teams were destroyed in the War, or in the decades before 2139. The ones active in 2139 may just have been lucky enough to get a good, hardened, remote bunker.

• If the government expected a nuclear war, the Snake Eaters would be far from expected targets.
• If investigating or thwarting the Morrow Project is the core, critical purpose of the Snake Eater Project (or whatever actual name it had), then their placement might reflect whatever information the government had about the Project.
• If the government only had one fusion reactor (Damocles), the Snake Eaters might be using plutonium-fueled radioisotope thermoelectric generators. The half-life of plutonium is about 87 years; after two half-lives, the Snake Eaters' cryogenic system may be waking them up due to low remaining power levels.
• If the Morrow Project, backed by Morrow Industries, is seen as threat, part of that threat is a lot of armored cars, filled with people wearing armored coveralls. Anti-vehicle non-metallic land mines, simple anti-tank weapons (to deal with V150s), and armor-piercing small-arms ammunition might be a priority.
• If all the government knows about is the radio system used by the Project: a relatively sophisticated radio setup might be useful for the Snake Eaters. To investigate, and if necessary neutralize the Morrow Project, you first have to find them, after all. While the Snake Eaters can't expect to drive around with a radio truck, they may be equipped with stuff that can be hauled on one or two pack mules. Frozen pack mules? Seems a little odd ...

Again, the main reason I commented on this thread was to think of various versions of "what does the government know about the Project?" The more you answer that question, the easier the "how many Snake Eaters, where, and with how much stuff?" questions get.

Thought derived from the above: if Snake Eaters wake up when their RTGs are down to 20% power reserves, they look outside. No Morrow Project in sight; _but_ the Snake Eaters have (canonically) the radio signals needed to wake up Morrow Project teams (that's how the Snake Eaters expected to wake up at the same time, after all). Maybe the Snake Eaters activate the original few teams in the 2139-era?

"Broadcast code one seven alpha seven for a week, it can't hurt to see what turns up."

--
Michael B.

[stormlion1]

Remember the Snake Eaters are expecting to wake up only a few years after they went to sleep so there probably expecting to be able to fall back on surviving US Military support or surviving infrastructure. Things like transport would still be abundant enough that hauling equipment wouldn't be a problem. It might be that all they would have to plan for is to get to a vehicle, replace certain burned out parts and load up and go. Now after 150 years that option is gone so they will have to do things the hard way. Pack up and hump the gear out of the wilderness. They might have more stuff than they can reasonably carry out, or they might have a vehicle stored away to carry gear. I could see stuffing a Jeep or two into a oversized Bolt Hole.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

Remember the Snake Eaters are expecting to wake up only a few years after they went to sleep so there probably expecting to be able to fall back on surviving US Military support or surviving infrastructure. Things like transport would still be abundant enough that hauling equipment wouldn't be a problem. It might be that all they would have to plan for is to get to a vehicle, replace certain burned out parts and load up and go. Now after 150 years that option is gone so they will have to do things the hard way. Pack up and hump the gear out of the wilderness. They might have more stuff than they can reasonably carry out, or they might have a vehicle stored away to carry gear. I could see stuffing a Jeep or two into a oversized Bolt Hole.

I was planning on surplus from WW2 and Korea with M151 jeeps and M3 half tracks. Abundant M1 Garands and M1 Carbines to re-arm and for partisan groups to fight the Soviets. Then rebuilding gear at the village level from SF experiences in South east Asia. Plus abundant medical staff and engineers.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

I was planning on surplus from WW2 and Korea with M151 jeeps and M3 half tracks. Abundant M1 Garands and M1 Carbines to re-arm and for partisan groups to fight the Soviets. Then rebuilding gear at the village level from SF experiences in South east Asia. Plus abundant medical staff and engineers.

This is a
Civilian Kit, Developmental Militia I pilfered from somewhere on the web. My plan was for Morrow to use it but the snake eaters could as well. The equipment trends a little later but the weapon are similar (low power so as not to present a danger to the project).

http://games.juhlin.com/generate/kit...parent_id=1077

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by kato13

This is a
Civilian Kit, Developmental Militia I pilfered from somewhere on the web. My plan was for Morrow to use it but the snake eaters could as well. The equipment trends a little later but the weapon are similar (low power so as not to present a danger to the project).

http://games.juhlin.com/generate/kit...parent_id=1077

That is a pretty nice kit. I would separate the uniform stuff from the load bearing and life support kit. I will probably add more WW2 and Korea surplus along with some civvie back packing gear. Likely, a soldiers kit, and then a Squad support kit.

Squad kit would have a stove such as the Optimus back packing stove, folding or rollup solar panel, hand pump water filter. One large tarp that can make a cooking or meeting area.

I am going with the M1 carbine, M3 grease gun, M1918 BAR, and M1919A4, with the M1911A1 for sidearm.

The M1 and M3 are for troops, the BAR is issued at one per ten, and the M1919 at one per 40.

[ArmySGT.]

I am trying to line up some Q&A time with Sadler and Tucholka. I have spoken to Tucholka in reference to one of his other games (Fringeworthy). Neither would like to have anything to do with Kevin D. Mr. Sadler is the originator of the story so I hope to have something after 1 january.

[stormlion1]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

I was planning on surplus from WW2 and Korea with M151 jeeps and M3 half tracks. Abundant M1 Garands and M1 Carbines to re-arm and for partisan groups to fight the Soviets. Then rebuilding gear at the village level from SF experiences in South east Asia. Plus abundant medical staff and engineers.

M-1 Garand's and Carbines are good, and a plentiful stock of M-14's were still sitting in packing crates during the 80's so they could be stockpiled as well. There would even be plentiful ammunition stockpiled away in armory's that could be gathered up and stored away, much of that has probably sat for decades though. Vehicle wise, Korea and WW-2 vintage is a tad out of date, not with plentiful stocks of Vietnam era equipment floating about. There are even Humvee's in service that could be stored for a later date though they might be missed. I used Jeeps as a option as the 80's was when Jeeps were being phased out of service I think, not sure about that. But there would be plenty of old jeeps that could be stockpiled away for later use, and even spare parts that no one would miss. It really counts where Snake Eaters where being stored in cryo and how much room in comparison they were given in comparison to the Morrow Teams Bolt Holes.
An option is old Salt Mines or even old Government owned Mining Tunnels for storing vehicles and excess equipment with the Snake Eaters in cryo near by. I could even see Huey's being stored with Snake Eaters being qualified to fly them, of course the other issue of fuel then comes up. All good if they wake up five years after the nukes, but after a 150 years fuel will be very hard to get.

[Gelrir]

If you're gonna insist on "out of date" stuff for the Snake Eaters, the M151 "Mutt" was gradually being replaced by the HMMWV the mid-Eighties.

http://www.them151mutt.com/

If the US Government really, really believes there is going to be an atomic war with the Soviet Union within 5 years, 10 years at most ... are they going to make presumably-expensive cryoberths, staffed with some of the nation's best-trained soldiers ... and then allot them some left-over WW2 equipment? Especially if "possibly fighting the Morrow Project" is the Snake Eaters' purpose? The government has to have noticed the Project has modern armored cars and modern small arms.

--
Michael B

[stormlion1]

Its not that they were being given out of date equipment, its what's reasonable that can be made to disappear in the late 80's into a Snake Eater equipment cache. Jeeps are a dime a dozen, very easy to maintain, rugged, and usable by a specops team in a nuclear environment. The Gov't can make dozens of them disappear without raising suspicions while making a few Hummers go missing will raise eyebrows. The Snake Eaters are going to be armed with the best equipment they have, M-16's, CAR-15's, Colt Pistols, etc, etc but that's minor league stuff that can be written off as destroyed in a exercise. Old and still crated M-1's and M-14's can be written off as sold as surplus or destroyed, Writing off a new Hummer is a bigger issue as would writing off a newer helicopter.
In fact, too much new stuff goes missing could in fact lead to someone noticing and trying to find out where all that gear is going. Its better to use older outdated gear at that point.

Now if your using the new Morrow Project book/PDF, I could see Hummers and Strykers going into caches as well as more modern firepower without raising suspicions. Just write it all off as lost or sold in Afghanistan or Iraq.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

Its not that they were being given out of date equipment, its what's reasonable that can be made to disappear in the late 80's into a Snake Eater equipment cache. Jeeps are a dime a dozen, very easy to maintain, rugged, and usable by a specops team in a nuclear environment. The Gov't can make dozens of them disappear without raising suspicions while making a few Hummers go missing will raise eyebrows. The Snake Eaters are going to be armed with the best equipment they have, M-16's, CAR-15's, Colt Pistols, etc, etc but that's minor league stuff that can be written off as destroyed in a exercise. Old and still crated M-1's and M-14's can be written off as sold as surplus or destroyed, Writing off a new Hummer is a bigger issue as would writing off a newer helicopter.
In fact, too much new stuff goes missing could in fact lead to someone noticing and trying to find out where all that gear is going. Its better to use older outdated gear at that point.

Now if your using the new Morrow Project book/PDF, I could see Hummers and Strykers going into caches as well as more modern firepower without raising suspicions. Just write it all off as lost or sold in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Exactly.

The stuff going in, can't be missed. Therefore, it has to be surplus, purchased off books, confiscated/captured, purchased as one offs (urgent need or test subject), or some future system that advances past prototype but, then shut down.

The stuff discussed so far is what to arm a populace with, to form partisans or resistance groups.

Think about how SF operates....... not in tanks, helicopters, or large armed ships. The blend in, move clandestinely, operate within the local populace. Their missions are intelligence gathering and sabotage.

M151 jeeps with gasoline engines already refit to burn pure ethanol are fine. Civilian vehicles refit in the same manner, delivery vans, pickups, SUVs.....

Their weapons, body armor, medicine, and commo is going to be state of the art at the time they are frozen, or atleast of recent vintage. The Snake eaters of Ft. Morrow (Ruins of Chicago) have M-14s (because the authors didn't like the M-16). The snake eater in Lonestar is the last one from his team and has no gear. The snake eater from Fallback has little equipment but, there are 4-5 more of them.

Only in Ruins of Chicago is it hinted there are more caches for the GBs. However, there isn't anything about them stating size or number only that they lean heavily towards weapons and munitions.

So I intend to keep the GBs lean......... they don't have every nice gadget that could be desired. They do have what they need to jump start a resistance group against Soviet occupation or against rogue U.S. forces becoming warlords.

Now in Canon, the Canadians are part of the Snake eaters program..... So how do you integrate them and how much does Ottawa know about the Morrow Project?

[stormlion1]

Rule for equipping the Snake Eaters is the KISS Principle, Equipment that won't be missed, won't show up on the budget, and can go missing quickly and be easily hidden. I doubt that the US Gov't would bury caches like the Morrow Project did but would hide the excess equipment in hidden facility's like abandoned mineshafts, Cold War Bunkers, or beneath Government buildings in rural area's. Whatever isn't stockpiled would be gained when they emerged. Food? Enough for the team for six weeks, after that forage, clothes? Four pair of Uniforms, after that forage. Only ammunition and weapons would receive a excess needed.

Canada knowing is the tough one for me, just how do you even breach the subject? "Hello Mr Prime Minister, Yes, Yes, the wife's fine. I have a favor to ask you, you see where going to be in a nuclear war in six months and I want to borrow a few of your Special Forces for a rainy day."
My money is on the Canadian Commando's were donated for a unknown special mission and not told of what it was until they showed up for the briefing. Those that agreed went into cryo and those who refused were sent home none the wiser to what was going on, just that there buddys would be unavailable for the next several months. These Canadian Troops would be equipped the same as US units and be buried either just on the border or clandestinely within Canada. I could see Canada's intelligence arm being approached as well for some extra support but even that would be tricky as the more people approached the more the likelihood of news getting out.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

They might freeze Green Berets -- or whoever else is on hand -- to re-emerge after the Atomic War; but there would be no reason to synchronize the wake-up to the Morrow Project's signals.

It is an assumption that the DoD knows what the Morrow Project wake up signals are and plans to use those to wake up the Snake Eater teams.

More likely the scientists on the cryosleep program are or have been provided the codes or systems by the Morrow Project.

Then the Project has someone to do the War fighting if there is Soviets on the ground in the 3-5 year plans. This we know from "Final Watch" is safe to assume.

So it isn't the DoD catching the Morrow Project wake up signal; it is the Morrow Project sending the wakeup signal to the Snake Eater teams and MP personnel. The DoD just doesn't know it.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

What I wonder is what kind of equipment were the Snake Eaters buried with, Bolt Holes like the Morrow team, permanent bases they can operate out of. Basements of buildings? That is the big question for me.

In the real world A detachments are supported by B detachments, and then C detachments.

A is the operational Team.

B is a support element made of SF graduates who are extremely skilled (Veteran SF) who assist.

C is a largish element back in a controlled are that has non-SF personnel to assist as needed like additional medical personnel, veterinarians, mechanics, electronics repair, etc.

So I would expect A dets to have a bolt hole and a few caches, B dets to have a bolt hole that operates as a base with a secondary as back up. C dets should be near a military installation and might possibly be minimally staffed with an expectation to draw personnel from active duty non program troops.

[stormlion1]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

In the real world A detachments are supported by B detachments, and then C detachments.

A is the operational Team.

B is a support element made of SF graduates who are extremely skilled (Veteran SF) who assist.

C is a largish element back in a controlled are that has non-SF personnel to assist as needed like additional medical personnel, veterinarians, mechanics, electronics repair, etc.

So I would expect A dets to have a bolt hole and a few caches, B dets to have a bolt hole that operates as a base with a secondary as back up. C dets should be near a military installation and might possibly be minimally staffed with an expectation to draw personnel from active duty non program troops.

While this is how it should work, the disappearance of so many personnel would cause notice so I'm betting just a A-Team (heh, heh) were put in cryo and were expected to survive on there own. But on that note I'm also betting the bases that the Snake Eaters were given weren't expected to be abandoned like Project Bolt Holes but to act as a temporary base of operations. Operating like a very small fire base as it were in a nuclear environment. It really counts just how much time they were given to prepare but I could see the Gov't adapting Cold War era facilities for this, ones that had been built during the 50's and the 60's then abandoned and forgotten about soon after. In my area there are still remains of Nike Missile Bases scattered about, one of these could be adapted very easily for a Snake Eater base of operation.