Composition of TF34

[Legbreaker]

My guess is the Hancock was already in Europe and had participated in the summer offensive. It would have been needed to escort the ships carrying the US marines.

I'm not sure off the top of my head about a one way trip. All I can recall is that burning crude oil causes "issues" with the diesel engines. If they were able to reliably cross the Atlantic westward, my guess is they may have been able to return again too.

Now I think about it, the use of German ships with German crews makes more sense of the fuel issue. Logistical control stays fully in the hands of the Germans thereby guarenteeing they get the promised equipment, and keep the ships. Not sure if the value of those ships outweighs the value of the oil they burn coming back though...

[Tegyrius]

There is another potential source for the ships: American vessels that had brought troops and heavy equipment across the Atlantic in the 1996-98 period and then stayed in England or Germany for lack of fuel, convoy escorts, or reasons to make the crossing again.

- C.

[Legbreaker]

This is true, however going Home does specifically state the German Merchant Marine and not US shipping.
Perhaps the US ships were needed elsewhere while the fuel lasted and ended up stranded in other parts of the world? Maybe the few left were used by the Marines for their landings across the Vistula delta and were stranded/sunk there?

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

If that is the case and we agree that with the exeption of the USS John Hancock the majority (if not all) of the TF34 Fleet is made up of German merchant ships, I'm thinking there might be a problem finding crews for these ships? How many German sailors are going to be happy to sign up for a one way ticket to North America? Or do we assume that there are enough US and Canadian sailors stuck in Germany to form skeleton crews? Or are we back with the theory that TF34 includes a number of US ships that have been stuck in Bremerhaven since the reinforcements arrived in 1999?

There could well be sufficient fuel for one or a few ships to make the trip back to Germany from Norfolk. The German sailors could return as passengers on those couple of ships. I don't think this is completely out of the question because there might be a few high-value ships the Germans insisted on retaining control of and having returned to them at the end of the operation.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Targan

There could well be sufficient fuel for one or a few ships to make the trip back to Germany from Norfolk. The German sailors could return as passengers on those couple of ships. I don't think this is completely out of the question because there might be a few high-value ships the Germans insisted on retaining control of and having returned to them at the end of the operation.

Ok, that makes sense to me...I guess only one ship needs to be able to make it back - the rest of the fleet could be abandoned at Norfolk.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Now I think about it, the use of German ships with German crews makes more sense of the fuel issue. Logistical control stays fully in the hands of the Germans thereby guarenteeing they get the promised equipment, and keep the ships. Not sure if the value of those ships outweighs the value of the oil they burn coming back though...

I suppose if they don't come back the Germans have neither the ships nor the oil...

For those who favour conspiracy theories, the arrival at Norfolk could also be an opportunity for a double cross. Maybe all the ships are supposed to come back (with their German crews) but the Americans decide they're too valuable to send back to Germany (especially if they all have enough fuel for an Atlantic crossing) so commandeer them (maybe allowing one to return with all of the crews). At that point I don't think there's much that the Germans (either the German Military Government or the crews of the ships themselves) could effectively do about it.

I'm not suggesting the US would carry out a double cross, but if they planned to it would be a lot easier to do in Norfolk than Bremerhaven.

If you wanted to put a really black twist on it the Americans could "disappear" the crews (they don't need to kill them, just lock them up for a while) then claim that the ships sailed as planned and must have been sunk en route back to Germany, giving them plausable deniability over the whole affair.

[Legbreaker]

On the other hand you've still got roughly 25,000 US servicemen and women still in Europe at the time. Approximately half that number is over in Poland (XI Corps) but the rest are right smack in the middle of German forces with all their lovely "new" tanks and heavy equipment.
Now I'm not saying the Germans would see those Americans as hostages against the good behaviour of TF34, but it is post nuke and certain actions which before the war may have seemed abhorrent.....