Way OT - 5th edition of D&D on the way

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I'm on the list of playtesters and will hopefully get a crack at it.

I feel like Paul LeMat as John Milner in American Graffiti when Erin Moran wanted to listen to the Beach Boys in his car. He angrily turns the radio off and growls "Rock and Roll has been goin' downhill since Buddy Holly died!" - I feel the same about D&D - it's been goin' downhill since AD&D 1e died.

Still, Wizards of the Coast is winning at least some of my dollars back by reprinting - for a limited time, anyway - the three big AD&D books (Dungeon Masters Guide, Monster Manual, Players Handbook) and donating some of the money to Gail Gygax for a memorial for Gary. Hey! There's my on-topicness; he worked with GDW for a while

I'd love to see some crazy billionaire buy up the GDW IP and reprint Twilight:2000 1.0 boxed sets and supplements, but it isn't gonna happen.

Inasmuch as I'll probably never get to play a proper T2k game, though, one of the things I do love about this place is the relative lack of any sort of forum drama at all. 1.0? 2.0? 2.2? T2k13? Whatevs, it's all good.

Okay except for Twilight:2013 that one is just junk.

[weswood]

I didn't even know there was a 4th ed out. Pretty much lost interest in AD&D after 2nd ed.

Good luck!

[pmulcahy11b]

The last version I played was AD&D...

[Cdnwolf]

3.5 was the last one I tried... and went with the Pathfinder versions...

I just found a bunch of PDF for Dungeon Crawls and they have in one spot taking a character from Level 1 to 15 in one setting.

I also have the link to the Worlds Largest Dungeon

[Raellus]

The concept of D&D is so universal now, it's cliche. That's not to say that it's not any good, though.

The whole version thing confounds and frustrates me. Obviously, unless new editions come out, the licence-holder doesn't make any money. I get that part. But it seems like they keep releasing deliberately problematic material so that in a few years they'll have a reason to debut a "new-and-improved" version.

I've read up a little of WotC's vision of v5 as a universal, completely customizable edition that will simultaneously appeal to all styles of fantasy RPG players and DMs and, although I'm rooting for this to be the case, I am highly skeptical. If this is possible, why didn't it happed decades ago? If it's not possible, then this ploy is an all-time low.

I also think it's interesting how invested folks get in their favorite editions. From the little I've read in Amazon reviews of various editions, there's some seriously passionate, partisan folks out there when it comes to defending a particular edition (and attacking most others). I've only ever played 4e, and that started only very recently. Seems like a lot of folks hate it. I've enjoyed it so far (but then I don't have any experience playing any other editions, unless you count the old Gold Box computer games and the Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale series where the mechanics are mostly behind the scenes).

In my mind, I think the quality of the DM and the playing group is much, much more important that the version being used (unless the system is so slow and clunky that it takes forever to resolve a single turn). If the DM's really good and the players enjoy one another's company, the experience can transcend nearly any limitations or shortcomings inherent in whatever rules-set is being used.

Anyway, thus end my ramblings on the matter.

[Odie]

3.5 was my favorite. AD&D would be a close second. I bought the players handbook for 4. Never bought another thing of that version. The only reason I bought it was because I pre ordered it. That was a mistake. So unless version 5 goes back to 3.5 rules. I am going to be very skepticle. Pathfinder is basically the 3.5 rules. Pathfinder is a fantastic game. I do have a few complaints with it but they are minor enough not to even mention. lol.

T2K 2.2 and Traveller TNE are my all time favorite RPG games. TNE has FF&S rule book for designing your own equipment (guns, vehicles aircraft and spacecraft). What makes it even more awesome is T2k 2.2 and TNE rules are the same. So your equipment and characters can play in either game if you want.

[Webstral]

Anyone know what the powers of a paladin are?

[Odie]

Originally Posted by Webstral

Anyone know what the powers of a paladin are?

Are you talking about in the new version or just in general?

[kota1342000]

I got turned off from D&D due to some crap DMs. Not an excuse I know, but Ive run itno a lot more terrible GMs from the Dungeons and dragons side than I usually do with most other games Ive played like T2K, Traveller, Paranoia, Rifts, Gurps, 3-16, Savage Worlds....the list goes on. Ive noticed that most of the same GMs who stuck to D&D so much also seemed to flock to Pathfinder. Generally I look to see what that crowd is doing and go the other way.

...And T2013 isnt all that bad. In fact Im getting rather attached to Reflex

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Webstral

Anyone know what the powers of a paladin are?

Take it we're not talking about the M109 SP Howitzer here?

Originally Posted by kota1342000

I got turned off from D&D due to some crap DMs. Not an excuse I know, but Ive run itno a lot more terrible GMs from the Dungeons and dragons side than I usually do with most other games Ive played like T2K, Traveller, Paranoia, Rifts, Gurps, 3-16, Savage Worlds....

I had much the same problems when I first started playing D & D in the mid 80's...it took a while to actually get a group together that "clicked"...

I'm the same as Paul - last version I played ftf was AD & D although I did play both Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale on my PC (and enjoyed them both).

[Adm.Lee]

I've played all 4 editions (plus Basic and Pathfinder), and DM'ed all but 4th. I have no interest in 4th, and about as much in 5th. I'd like to go back to 1st or 2nd edition for playing, but the majority of my playgroup wants to stick to 3.5/PF. So be it, I guess.

The good news is that I've gotten my 13-year old son and a rising number of his buddies to play D&D. It's funny that he's adopted my attitude against 4th.

I'm also working patiently to get them into some other games, but the Cold War (and WW3) don't resonate to them at all.

And in "their" Star Wars, the guys in white armor are the good guys.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Odie

Are you talking about in the new version or just in general?

Any version will do. No, I'm not asking about a self-propelled field piece.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Webstral

Any version will do. No, I'm not asking about a self-propelled field piece.

The AD&D paladin:

can lay on hands for 2 HP/level, 1x daily (every 24 hours)

is immune to any disease

Can detect evil at a range of 60'

can cure any disease 1 time per week for every 5 levels

has a permanent protection from evil circle 10' surrounding him

at 4th level can call for a special, intelligent warhorse which will serve him unless he breaks his paladin oath. If the beast dies it is a set amount of time before he can call it again

at 3rd level can begin turning undead/evil as a cleric 2x levels below (so starting at 3rd, as a 1st level cleric, at 4th a 2nd level, etc.)

at 9th level can begin to cast clerical spells, starting as a 1st level cleric, going through 20th level, casting up to 4th level cleric spells.

MUST tithe 10% of treasure to a lawful good church/cause (cannot be another PC)

CANNOT have more than 10 magic items

If they act in an unlawful way, they must perform a special quest for their God to regain paladin status, otherwise they are a fighter of the appropriate level. If they continue to commit chaotic acts and change alignment they will forever be a "mere" fighter.

They cannot adventure with evil alignments.

They cannot adventure with true neutral types, except on a single adventure (e.g., a lone jaunt to the dungeon).

Their hit dice and to-hit chart is that of a fighter.

They must have a minimum 12 strength, 9 intelligence, 13 wisdom, 9 constitution and 17 charisma

If a Paladin has a Holy Sword, they project a circle of power 10' in diameter through which all magic is dispelled. They have to draw and hold the sword.

Paladins make ALL saving throws at +2

They have a range of 23 kilometers and can fire all conventional munitions as well as binary nerve and biological agents. Wait, shit, wrong Paladin. Otherwise, as written

[Targan]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

If they act in an unlawful way, they must perform a special quest for their God to regain paladin status, otherwise they are a fighter of the appropriate level. If they continue to commit chaotic acts and change alignment they will forever be a "mere" fighter.

[snip]

Their hit dice and to-hit chart is that of a fighter.

IIRC once Unearthed Arcana came out Paladins were treated as a type of Cavalier rather than a fighter. So if they lost their Paladin status they became a Cavalier of equal level.

Dammit, and I'd promised myself that I wouldn't buy into this thread!

[Medic]

I've played both AD&D and the 3.x edition (and have books for both in my shelves). I've made a decission of not even considering touching the 4th edition due to the vastly altered mechanics. Might also have to do with my wife not wanting to see another shelf full of RPG books (my library is a rather good one, inthat department and otherwise).

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Targan

IIRC once Unearthed Arcana came out Paladins were treated as a type of Cavalier rather than a fighter. So if they lost their Paladin status they became a Cavalier of equal level.

Dammit, and I'd promised myself that I wouldn't buy into this thread!

Yeah; it also let half-elves become paladins (since 1/2e could be Cavaliers, too).

Never much used UA.

[Cdnwolf]

I have the pdf of most of the pathfinder and ver 4 of the game.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

The AD&D paladin:

can lay on hands for 2 HP/level, 1x daily (every 24 hours)

is immune to any disease

Can detect evil at a range of 60'

can cure any disease 1 time per week for every 5 levels

has a permanent protection from evil circle 10' surrounding him

at 4th level can call for a special, intelligent warhorse which will serve him unless he breaks his paladin oath. If the beast dies it is a set amount of time before he can call it again

at 3rd level can begin turning undead/evil as a cleric 2x levels below (so starting at 3rd, as a 1st level cleric, at 4th a 2nd level, etc.)

at 9th level can begin to cast clerical spells, starting as a 1st level cleric, going through 20th level, casting up to 4th level cleric spells.

MUST tithe 10% of treasure to a lawful good church/cause (cannot be another PC)

CANNOT have more than 10 magic items

If they act in an unlawful way, they must perform a special quest for their God to regain paladin status, otherwise they are a fighter of the appropriate level. If they continue to commit chaotic acts and change alignment they will forever be a "mere" fighter.

They cannot adventure with evil alignments.

They cannot adventure with true neutral types, except on a single adventure (e.g., a lone jaunt to the dungeon).

Their hit dice and to-hit chart is that of a fighter.

They must have a minimum 12 strength, 9 intelligence, 13 wisdom, 9 constitution and 17 charisma

If a Paladin has a Holy Sword, they project a circle of power 10' in diameter through which all magic is dispelled. They have to draw and hold the sword.

Paladins make ALL saving throws at +2

They have a range of 23 kilometers and can fire all conventional munitions as well as binary nerve and biological agents. Wait, shit, wrong Paladin. Otherwise, as written

Thanks for this. A while ago I had an idea that would land me in hot water with some Christians. Surely there are/could be Muslim paladins. For that matter, Jewish paladins, Hindu paladins, animist paladins, etc. Okay, maybe the animist paladin idea is stretching things, pending more thinking about whether any shamanic faith lends itself to a lawful good deity. But surely all of the Abrahamic faiths can have paladins.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Webstral

Thanks for this. A while ago I had an idea that would land me in hot water with some Christians. Surely there are/could be Muslim paladins. For that matter, Jewish paladins, Hindu paladins, animist paladins, etc. Okay, maybe the animist paladin idea is stretching things, pending more thinking about whether any shamanic faith lends itself to a lawful good deity. But surely all of the Abrahamic faiths can have paladins.

Gary lifted the Paladin almost wholly from Three Hearts and Three Lions by Poul Anderson*. It's a fantasy story (duh) but sandwiched in a delicious cookie of WWII fightin'. In the story, the main character (Holger du Danske) meets up with a Saracen paladin. Can't think for a moment that it'd be "wrong" to have a paladin of a nonchristian faith. For that matter, no AD&D deities are "our" God, so by default they're not Christian.

...

*=who wrote some ripping post-apocalypse sci-fi, including a novella where the forces of Denver conquer a race of psionics hell-bent on using the civilians of the west coast to reestablish a hegemonic one-state government in the post-bomb US... so there's your On-Topicness for this post

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

Can't think for a moment that it'd be "wrong" to have a paladin of a nonchristian faith. For that matter, no AD&D deities are "our" God, so by default they're not Christian.

I agree that the D&D dieties aren't the Christian God, but somehow the idea of paladin seems to have drifted over time.

[ArmySGT.]

Man,

No I want to play an Anti-Paladin again. Something cool about playing a guy masquerading as a mere lowly fighter. With a habit for using multi part poisons. So your "hero" can eat and drink with the mayor, but everyone drops dead after the "hero" goes home and the candles are lit.



Muh ha ha ha haha

[copeab]

I think it's safe to say that the real competition for D&D is not Pathfinder, Hero, GURPS, World of Darkness, etc., but World of Warcraft, Angry Birds, the Wii, Call of Duty, etc.

Pen and paper games are losing to electronic games and, frankly, I'm not sure how the trend can be reversed.

(much how paper books are losing ground to audio and electronic books).

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by copeab

I think it's safe to say that the real competition for D&D is not Pathfinder, Hero, GURPS, World of Darkness, etc., but World of Warcraft, Angry Birds, the Wii, Call of Duty, etc.

Pen and paper games are losing to electronic games and, frankly, I'm not sure how the trend can be reversed.

(much how paper books are losing ground to audio and electronic books).

Yeah, you're essentially right. WotC has bungled in its attempts to stem the tide by merging the hobbies with it's "electronic table-top" (DDE? DDI?) and 4e had no computer titles release for it at all, the first time a D&D ruleset hasn't had a corresponding CRPG since 1988. Think about that one for a second...!

Honestly I think we (as RPers) are at this point where chit-and-hex and Napoleonics were in 1973 when rumors started to abound about this thing coming out of G&K/Tactical Studies Rules ...

[Cdnwolf]

I find that the electronics help because the good old gang are all married, with kids and scattered around the country and skype and online games are the only way we keep in touch. (Thank God for shows like The Bachelor and American Idol .... keeps the wife out of my hair when I game.)

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Cdnwolf

I find that the electronics help because the good old gang are all married, with kids and scattered around the country and skype and online games are the only way we keep in touch. (Thank God for shows like The Bachelor and American Idol .... keeps the wife out of my hair when I game.)

One of the guys in my Friday night AD&D game lives like 10 minutes from me. His daughter normally comes over and spends the night with mine while we play and she fell ill this past game-day, so he just Skype'd in to the game. All went very well.

[Odie]

Just used Windows Live Messenger this last saturday to play Pathfinder.

[weswood]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

For that matter, no AD&D deities are "our" God, so by default they're not Christian.

I once had a player who played a Christian cleric. Only one in the world until he made some converts....

BTW what is Pathfinder? Several posts have mentioned it but I've never heard of it.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by weswood

I once had a player who played a Christian cleric. Only one in the world until he made some converts....

BTW what is Pathfinder? Several posts have mentioned it but I've never heard of it.

It is a continuation of D&D 3rd edition made by Paizo Press. They add enough of their own unique "stuff" to constitute a whole new d20 based game. It has actually outsold D&D 4e a few business quarters (which considering the general suckyness of D&D4 is is probably why 5e was announced only 4 years after 4e debuted).

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

Yeah, you're essentially right. WotC has bungled in its attempts to stem the tide by merging the hobbies with it's "electronic table-top" (DDE? DDI?) and 4e had no computer titles release for it at all, the first time a D&D ruleset hasn't had a corresponding CRPG since 1988. Think about that one for a second...!

Honestly I think we (as RPers) are at this point where chit-and-hex and Napoleonics were in 1973 when rumors started to abound about this thing coming out of G&K/Tactical Studies Rules ...

Napoleonics - I think I read about it in a brief history of Avalon Hill games or some such..that was in a boxed set I bought in the 80s..

Well - pencil and paper might be limping along the stragglers straggler among electronic devices etc-

sort of like the sabre at the advent of the repeating rifle. Today automatic weapons are of such capacity that the designers of the original repeaters probably wouldnt believet it. But swordfighting is still an art - and the sword is still carried in some respects..Meaning an iconic thing will not disappear that quickly.

I think I will be able to rustle up a few players 30 years from now when I retire..loads of FtFs up ahead