The War of 1812

[rcaf_777]

To celebrate the British and Canadian victory over the imperialist US forces during the War of 1812. The Canadian Government has released a Pin for all member of the CF to wear on there dress uniform from 19 Jul 12-26 Feb 15, also selected units will awarded an 1812 War Commemorative Banner. It is consider a water shed movement in Canada – US relations. It war was also the last time a foreign army invaded Canada and only time Washington D.C. was captured and burned. Here is the Infomation on the banner and picture of it and the Pin.

Badge

Gules on a Canadian pale Argent two swords in saltire proper, hilts and pommels Gules, surmounted by an anchor Or fouled Gules and flanked by two tomahawks addorsed, the whole ensigned by the Royal Crown proper and above two scrolls Or edged Gules and inscribed 1812-1815 and DEFENCE OF CANADA - DÉFENSE DU CANADA in letters Sable;

Symbolism

The banner honours those who defended British North America during the War of 1812; the Royal Navy and Provincial Marine, the British Army and colonial militias, and their First Nations allies. The three fighting elements are represented by the anchor, the swords and the tomahawks respectively

Awarding of the banner

Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II has approved the design of a war of 1812 commemorative banner. The banner is for, and will be presented to, Canadian forces units, formations and establishments whose heritage embraces service in the defence of Canada during the period 1812-1815. The banner will also be available, through the department of aboriginal affairs and northern development, to those first nations wishing to recognize and commemorate the contribution of their people to the conflict.

Once presented, the banner may be carried, flown, or displayed throughout the 2012-2015 commemorative period (18 Jun 12 to 16 Feb 15). Thereafter it may be paraded on anniversaries of events of the war of 1812 that specific units, formations and establishments consider important within their own heritage. However, as the banner is not a colour, guidon or standard, it shall not be paraded with any other flag nor shall compliments be paid to it. Banners will not be replaced. Once they become worn through age and use, they are to be deposited in an appropriate commemorative location

[Raellus]

I heard an interesting piece on NPR in mid-June about how the War of 1812 is viewed in Canada vs. how it is viewed in the U.S. There's two sides to every story and the truth is often somewhere in between.

According to the piece, in which both American and Canadian history teachers were interviewed, in American public school U.S. history classes, most teachers can't/don't spend more than a couple of days on the War of 1812. In Canada, teachers often spend two weeks or more teaching about the war. In the U.S., the war is considered to have resulted in more or less a draw. In Canada, it is considered a British/Canadian victory. Apparently, in Canada, the war is considered a consequence of early American imperialism. In the U.S., Britain is considered responsible for starting the war by its impressment of American sailors, and by selling guns to frontier tribes hostile to American expansion. In the U.S., the war is considered a minor speedbump in the path to becoming a American continental power- we faced off against a global superpower and fought them to a strategic draw. In Canada, it is considered a fight for survival. The U.S. tried to take Canadian territory by force and were beaten back. So, in Canadian eyes, the war ended in a strategic victory. The piece didn't speak to how the War of 1812 is viewed/taught in British schools.

I can't speak for Canadian schools/teachers, but as an American high school history teacher, I can vouch for the report's accuracy regarding how the War of 1812 is viewed/taught here in the states. I would hazard to guess that the majority of adult Americans remember little to nothing about the War of 1812.

I'd love one of our British posters to explain how the War of 1812 is viewed/taught in British schools and/or seen by the British public at large.

[simonmark6]

The what?

It was only in the mid-nineties when the statement on the back of the BYB was explained to me:

How could we forget that in 1812 the two greatest democracies in the world made war on each other.

I'd always assumed that it referred to Russia and France but couldn't work it out because Russia obviously wasn't a democracy in 1812.

The war is barely a footnote and certainly not covered in the curriculum. From my experience of teaching secondary history, British schools cover:
The Romans
The Black Death
The Tudors
The English Civil War and Restoration
Industrial Revolution and Civil Rights movement
The Victorians
World War One
World War Two

When you get up to 15-16 and choose GCSEs the options include:
Medicine through History
Nazi Germany
The American West
World War Two
Post War UK

As an aside, when I was teaching the American West, I had one of the best answers ever.

The question was: Sum up Custer's position at the Little Big Horn
The answer was: Custer left his gatling guns at camp to move faster. He split a small group of men into three and sent them to places they couldn't support each other. Then he charged a couple of hundred men into thousands of Souix, some of who had repeating rifles when his men had single shot guns and crappy ammunition that jammed. Once he realised the situation he dismounted and waited for help instead of running away. Basically, Custer was fucked.

A concise if fairly inaccurate assessment.

[Cdnwolf]

http://www.royal-scots.com/id5.html


Every year I go and watch this event.

************************************************** ******
As to what they teach in high school....


Canadian history classes in high school teach a little bit of everything. We usually start with the Viking explorers from 980AD, move on to the French explorers looking for the northwest passage, the arrival of the British, conflicts between the aboriginal tribes and the French and English settlers, the war with the Americans, and so on and so on.

In Ontario, for example, high-school students do not learn about the 50 years following Confederation, skipping everything it seems from John A. Macdonald to the settlement of the West.

Recent history grads may be forgiven for not knowing the significance of the 1st Baron of Dorchester, or that his 1774 Quebec Act was once known as Canada’s Magna Carta. They don’t teach much pre-Confederation history in school. “In high school, you had to take one history course and all learned about was World War One, World War Two—maybe touched on the Depression

The really important things happened after John A. MacDonald, that World War One was Canada’s war of independence, that we didn’t really become a country until we had our own flag and that our rights and freedoms began in 1982 with the Charter.

[simonmark6]

Ah, starting history at 980AD! When I was at Uni studying English the Medievalists thought that nothing worthwhile was achieved after 1400. Some grudgingly went up to 1600 to include Shakespeare but most thought he was a worthless parvenu.

[Raellus]

It's a bit humbling to see that the time period that British students study for British history is majority of the span of what we in the U.S. teach as "world history". The U.S.A. is still a comparitively young nation.

[simonmark6]

That's not what my Lakota friends say...

Still, history was much easier to teach when you could take the kids to the playground and show them a Sarsen stone that is believed to mark the route the stones took to get to Stonehenge from the quarry in Wales.

In Wales, history hangs heavy on us and darkness holds the thrum of arrows and the cry of death from ambush. As R.S. Thomas said, we are a people gnawing on the carcass of an old song. Where I taught history, my own school when I was a kid, the population was very static and I could hook the kids in to their history, histories that I could trace back to the 1700s for some of them.

We had the grandchildren of men who fought in Korea, the great-grandchildren of men that fell in Flanders and one girl was related to Dic Penderryn, a man executed for rioting to demand suffrage for all adult males in the Merthyr riots.

Once you've hooked the kids with their stories, it's easy to delve deeper. Like one kid said, "It's not HIS story is it, Sir, it's our story."

Damn, I miss teaching history.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by simonmark6

That's not what my Lakota friends say...

Ouch! Nice burn.

Something else you said struck me. I did a little project last year during the second semester where the students had to track back through their family tree to find an immigrant new to America (and do a brief report on said family member). They really got into it because it was about them and their family, and their classmates' families.

This year, maybe I should start them off with this project to draw them in more quickly and emphasize that the story of America is part of their own story.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by simonmark6

How could we forget that in 1812 the two greatest democracies in the world made war on each other.

"Greatest democracies"? I acknowledge they are 2 great nations but in the modern era which nation was the first to give all adult male and female citizens the vote? The USA? No. Great Britain? No again.

It was New Zealand. The same place you go to find someone capable of being the first to climb to the top of the world's highest mountain .

Thanks for creating this thread, Rcaff 777. My knowledge of the War of 1812 is woefully inadequate and reading this thread has made me want to learn more about it.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by Targan

"Greatest democracies"? I acknowledge they are 2 great nations but in the modern era which nation was the first to give all adult male and female citizens the vote? The USA? No. Great Britain? No again.

It was New Zealand. The same place you go to find someone capable of being the first to climb to the top of the world's highest mountain .

Thanks for creating this thread, Rcaff 777. My knowledge of the War of 1812 is woefully inadequate and reading this thread has made me want to learn more about it.

And not to mention creating Pavlova, the worlds finest desert creation.

[LAW0306]

I find myself in an interesting place as I have a canadian company 2nd Bn PPCLI, A Coy, a Aussie Company 1st Bn RAR, A Coy and a New Zealand Platoon In my SPMAGTF for the last month and a half. I went to my first Canada day and had a good time. The big thing I see is that we as nations study and celebrate the good things we have done and our victorys. The Canadian company commander and me have had good talks about Lundys lane and it has been a great learning experiance for all. I have grown to like these men and only wish them the best. We have only a week left and all of our final attacks are coming up. It should be a good time. I came out of the field on the big island last night and now go to the field here tomorrow to finish. Quite funny to see AAV's land with Aussies getting out and Canadians assault from LCAC's and CH-53's.

[simonmark6]

The greatest democracies bit was a quote from the BYB, I had problems thinking of any real democracies in 1812: I suppose they were thinking about it from a C20th point of view.

Rae: Absolutely, I think anything that makes History real for the pupils is worthwhile and makes the lessons much better. If you're lucky, some of the reports will give you pegs to hang your teaching off. When I went to the school to teach history (I was a substitute), only 16 people a year chose history to study for GCSE (the qualifications students opt for between 15 and 16), the summer I finished 98 people opted for it.

[Adm.Lee]

This week, I'm reading an issue of Naval History magazine, which is the 1812 anniversary issue. As you might guess, the US Navy is quite proud of its record in the War of 1812. As far as I know, the US Army is less so, with a few exceptions (Scott and Jackson, primarily).

Nearly everything I've read speaks of the tensions rising over sailors' rights, hardly anyone talks about imperialism vs. Canada. The exceptions have been works talking about the Federalist-Republican conflicts, pointing out that Jefferson's party spoke eagerly of easily routing the British and increasing the size of the country again. When that didn't happen, it seems the bellicosity got swept under the rug. Since the war (really, the defeat of Napoleon) ended the maritime harassment, that's what gets addressed in the histories written afterwards.

Here in Ohio, there is required state history in 4th and 7th grades. We spend a little more time on the fighting between settlers and natives before the War of 1812. By that time, the tribes had been driven out, and the War seems an aftermath. The big exception, of course, is the Battle of Lake Erie; there's a tall victory column on the nearest island. US history tends to zip through it on the way to the Civil War. Everything after WW1 tends to get squeezed in before final exams, IMO.

So, the Canadians wish to celebrate their victories, the US Navy wants to celebrate its victories; go for it, I say.

Simon and Raellus; those are great ideas to get the kids to work their own families into history, I know it's helped my interest. (Now, if only I could get my sons to pay attention....) On one of my family lines, I've found a Pennsylvania family that sent 4 sons to the war, one of them named his sons for war heros: O.H. Perry, Andrew Jackson, W.H. Harrison, etc.

[RN7]

Here in Ireland we don't even cover the American Revolution or the Civil War in school history, and America only appears on the horizon during the world wars. I never even heard of the war of 1812 until years after I left school. There is as a lot of coverage about British history, but its all based around Ireland struggle for independence from Britain, particulary in the 19th and early 20th centuries. I emerged from school with an oppinion that nothing of any consequence ever happened beyond Britain and Ireland until the 20th centuries, and that Ireland's independence was the most important event in world history. Canada as a country had no history as far as I was thought and I only knew this was untrue due to the fact that I was born there.

[dragoon500ly]

Flipping through my son's history book, one is left with the impression that, insofar as concerning military history, the atitude of the Victorian-era Brits is best..."if no one discusses the horrid thing, it will go away!"

[Cdnwolf]

Whats really sad is that my step kids don't know what the Berlin Wall was! Or even think the 9-11 attacks if ancient history!

[Cdnwolf]

From Starship Troop by Robert Heinlein

“Very well. It was one of those bush wars that flared up on the edges of the Napoleonic wars. This young officer was the most junior in a naval vessel—wet navy, of course—wind-powered, in fact. This youngster was about the age of most of your class and was not commissioned. He carried the title of temporary third lieutenant’—note that this is the title you are about to carry. He had no combat experience; there were four officers in the chain of command above him. When the battle started his commanding officer was wounded. The kid picked him up and carried him out of the line of fire. That’s all—make pickup on a comrade. But he did it without being ordered to leave his post. The other officers all bought it while he was doing this and he was tried for `deserting his post of duty as commanding officer in the presence of the enemy.’ Convicted. Cashiered.”

I gasped. “For that? Sir.”

“Why not? True, we make pickup. But we do it under different circumstances from a wet-navy battle, and by orders to the man making pickup. But pickup is never an excuse for breaking off battle in the presence of the enemy. This boy’s family tried for a century and a half to get his conviction reversed. No luck, of course. There was doubt about some circumstances but no doubt that he had left his post during battle without orders. True, he was green as grass—but he was lucky not to be hanged.” Colonel Nielssen fixed me with a cold eye. “Mr. Rico—could this happen to you?” …

[Later in that same scene…]

He turned to me, looked at my face and said sharply, “Something on your mind, son? Speak up!”

“Uh—” I blurted it out. “Sir, that temporary third lieutenant—the one that got cashiered. How could I find out what happened?”

“Oh. Young man, I didn’t mean to scare the daylights out of you; I simply intended to wake you up. The battle was on one June 1813 old style between USF Chesapeake and HMF Shannon. Try the Naval Encyclopedia; your ship will have it.”

[Targan]

Sir Isaac Brock rocked!

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/brock.html

[dragoon500ly]

I was watching 'Zulu' last night after the kids were in bed and my wife dropped this one..."I didn't know the Zulus fought in the Old West."

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Note: Kate Beeton, the artist/author of the following comic strip is entirely Canadian and is probably has more historical smarts than any 3 of us combined

[rcaf_777]

WOW

I don't know where to begin with this, so many mistakes

frist it was'nt Canadian Troops that burn the Whitehouse it was the British, and then did'nt rebuild it they painted it white to cover up the marks, thats how it got it's name

Next the war is commonly though off as a stalemate but look the aims of both sides

US - Invade and conqure Canada while the British are fighting the French, it is also in response the pressing of US persons in the Royal Navy and blockcade of trading with french, and the stiring up on Indians along the frountier.

British/Canadians - Repel US invasion

So looking at the end state in 1818 who won? will we ar'nt flying no Star and Stripes up here!

[Graebarde]

What I most recall from the history of the war of 1812.
1. British forces landed in Maryland, marched on Washington, US forces routed, Dolly Madison (presiden't wife) did more to save the 'important things' from the white house with Red Coats at the doors. (Portrait of Washington that still, or did until BO, hangs in the White House.

2. Battle of New Orleans. Which while a victory for the US, was a waste of life, since the war had been over for a month and some when the fight took place. 7th Infantry got their nickname 'Cottonbalers' from that battle, having put up revetments of cotton bales. NO we didn't march onto the field to face the Red Coats, we used defense works and cut the poor bastards down. So many good men.. for what?

[Graebarde]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

WOW

So looking at the end state in 1818 who won? will we ar'nt flying no Star and Stripes up here!

You know the BEST thing that came from the war of 1812? It was the LAST war between the US and Commonwealth countries that I know of. (Oh yeah there were skirmishs in the PNW I guess) While there was no formalization until thirty years later, 1848 or something, we have been 'friends' for over 160 years, with the longest nonmilitarized boundry in the world.

Yes we have our differences, but we are so much alike it stinks sometimes eh? I grew up 60 miles from the Canadian line. Had I joined the closest active duty army unit, I would have been in the Canadian army.

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Graebarde

You know the BEST thing that came from the war of 1812? It was the LAST war between the US and Commonwealth countries that I know of. (Oh yeah there were skirmishs in the PNW I guess) While there was no formalization until thirty years later, 1848 or something, we have been 'friends' for over 160 years, with the longest nonmilitarized boundry in the world.

Yes we have our differences, but we are so much alike it stinks sometimes eh? I grew up 60 miles from the Canadian line. Had I joined the closest active duty army unit, I would have been in the Canadian army.

Seems a bit of tension lingered on up until the Civil War period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aroostook_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Affair

Its also interesting to note that America developed a war strategy to fight a war against the British Empire centred on an invasion of Canada after WW1 which was active until the late 1930's. Britain didn't have a counter plan at the time as they didn't think such a war was winneable. Canada did formulate a defensive plan of its own but didn't think they could have realy stopped America at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by Graebarde

What I most recall from the history of the war of 1812.
1. British forces landed in Maryland, marched on Washington, US forces routed, Dolly Madison (presiden't wife) did more to save the 'important things' from the white house with Red Coats at the doors. (Portrait of Washington that still, or did until BO, hangs in the White House.

This, IIRC, is the only time a US President has attempted to attend a battle. (Lincoln visited the front, but not during active campaigning). The loss is also known as "The Bladensburg Races," as the US militia and some regulars mostly got spooked and ran for it. Some units fought hard (ran out of shot), and the Marines and sailors from the Washington Navy Yard covered the retreat very well.

I remember in 10th grade US history, an actual strategic analysis by my favorite history teacher. He pointed out that the British position in Canada resembled a tree, with its roots in the mouth of the St. Lawrence, and the branches in the Great Lakes. If the Americans wanted to conquer British Canada, the thing to do was to cut down the tree near the roots, not start at the top and work down. Of course, this was politically impossible, as the states north of Pennsylvania weren't really willing participants in the war (some even had some meetings about secession!). East of Lake Ontario, there was no military action to speak of. I've read of a New York militia colonel who sold cattle to the British forces, while in uniform!