Red Dawn Official Trailer

[Marc]

I'm not sure if this has been post previously, but here you have:

Red Dawn Official Trailer

Be ready. Everything is possible…

[Targan]

Nice to see some Aussies in there, helping to defend freedom and the American way!

[WallShadow]

Thanksgiving Day opening? Nice touch, both on the public consciousness and in the T2K timeline.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I'll wind up seeing it but them making the villains NK instead of Chinese really grinds my gears something awful.

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

I'll wind up seeing it but them making the villains NK instead of Chinese really grinds my gears something awful.

It wouldn't be politically correct to p### off the ChiCOms. THey hold a good CHUNK of our national debt. AND they make all of our electronic toys and gizmos.

No one cares if you make fun of/p### off the Norks.

My $0.02

Mike

[Cdnwolf]

Hmmmm looks familiar....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuCcZnVPDpc

[LAW0306]

movie is pure shit.

[HorseSoldier]

That makes my brain hurt.

[kato13]

When I saw those all those aircraft my first (joking) thought was that such an aerial raid would use a measurable percentage of North Korea's daily fuel allotment.

I then had to look it up.

North Korea uses 15,070 barrels of oil daily (ranked 146th in the world)
http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=KN

15 070 oil barrels = 2,395,938.53 liters (Google)
(1 oil barrels = 158.987295 liters)

I am assuming those aircraft are similar to An-12s and there were a dozen on them.

12 aircraft x 18,100 liters per plane = 217,200 liters
http://www.worldwide-aviation.net/ai...d=46&Itemid=55

So that flight alone would take over 9% of North Korea's average daily heavy fuel consumption.

2,395,938.53 liters/217,200 liters = 9.065%

[ArmySGT.]

Couldn't afford to upset the campaign donors, now could they.

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by kato13

When I saw those all those aircraft my first (joking) thought was that such an aerial raid would use a measurable percentage of North Korea's daily fuel allotment.

I then had to look it up.

North Korea uses 15,070 barrels of oil daily (ranked 146th in the world)
http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=KN

15 070 oil barrels = 2,395,938.53 liters (Google)
(1 oil barrels = 158.987295 liters)

I am assuming those aircraft are similar to An-12s and there were a dozen on them.

12 aircraft x 18,100 liters per plane = 217,200 liters
http://www.worldwide-aviation.net/ai...d=46&Itemid=55

So that flight alone would take over 9% of North Korea's average daily heavy fuel consumption.

2,395,938.53 liters/217,200 liters = 9.065%

Nice work on this, Kato....

But you are encroaching on Paul's specialty...

He IS the stat guy.....

Just pulling your leg.

My $0.02

Mike

[Cdnwolf]

Originally Posted by kato13

When I saw those all those aircraft my first (joking) thought was that such an aerial raid would use a measurable percentage of North Korea's daily fuel allotment.

I then had to look it up.

North Korea uses 15,070 barrels of oil daily (ranked 146th in the world)
http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=KN

15 070 oil barrels = 2,395,938.53 liters (Google)
(1 oil barrels = 158.987295 liters)

I am assuming those aircraft are similar to An-12s and there were a dozen on them.

12 aircraft x 18,100 liters per plane = 217,200 liters
http://www.worldwide-aviation.net/ai...d=46&Itemid=55

So that flight alone would take over 9% of North Korea's average daily heavy fuel consumption.

2,395,938.53 liters/217,200 liters = 9.065%

Where did you get the figure of 18,100 liters per plane? Where are they starting from and how many times do they need to refuel?

[kato13]

It was the maximum fuel capacity. That was a guess, but seemed reasonable that they would at least fill their planes if they were going to try to assault a country 6000 miles away (over 3 times their loaded range IIRC).

My thought is that the Airborne troops are expected to flap their arms for the entire flight

[LVI]

wow movie does look like junk, but i will still spend x$ to see it.

LOL N.Koreans... Good lord.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Hey, Jericho had a pair of MiG 19's (Shenyang J7s) accompanying a Chinese cargo plane dropping "humanitarian aid" all over the US. Yeah, not sure what the refuel capability on the ol' MiG 19 is but I'm pretty sure it's ferry radius is a tad smaller than 6000 miles...

[pmulcahy11b]

I'll probably watch it when it comes on cable.

The premise, however, is ridiculous. The DPRK does not have the troops, firepower, transport capability, and combat power in general to invade the US. I may be wrong due to the intervening years, but in the late 1980s-early 1990s (back when I was in the loop), their air-to-air refueling capability was almost nonexistent, and the training of DPRK pilots for air-to-air refueling even more nonexistent. And that's assuming that the aircraft is set up for air-to-air refueling (the DPRK tended to remove this equipment if the aircraft had any onboard to lighten the aircraft, giving it slightly less wing loading and a touch more speed).

And the DPRK would never reduce their combat power enough to invade the US. The DPRK leadership keeps their people in line by keeping them paranoid about a South Korean/UN invasion of the DPRK. Even now, the South Koreans could defeat the DPRK by themselves.

Like I said, ridiculous premise. But what the hell, I'll watch it.

[stg58fal]

I hadn't planned on seeing it, but now I think I will. Since North Korea invading this country on its own requires far too much suspension of disbelief, I'll probably just pretend the the NoKors are part of a much larger UN force, and they (NoKor) are responsible for the area where the movie takes place. I'm sure I can come up with SOME kind of plausible reason for how the movie goes. If I can't, I should retire from GMing immediately.

[weswood]

Wasn't it the Cubans in the original? With some Soviet advisors? I find that less believable than North Korea. On the other hand, if the plot was China invades becuase of the US's inabilty to repay it's debt, I could see that.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by weswood

Wasn't it the Cubans in the original? With some Soviet advisors? I find that less believable than North Korea. On the other hand, if the plot was China invades becuase of the US's inabilty to repay it's debt, I could see that.

Why? Cuba is right there. At the time ('84 or so) they had battle-hardened troops that'd spent a decade in Angola (this is referenced by the sympathetic Cuban regional commander once, too). Nicaragua had gone commie and it looked like the entire Central American isthmus was headed that way, so Cubans jumping at the chance to slaughter a few hundred thousand Yanqui Dogs is entirely believable for the time.

Hell, it's entirely believable for today.

The "Red Canada" comment by Powers Boothe's major is less so, though. Given that the UK was still fighting alongside the US ("They won't be in it too much longer.") I just don't see them letting Canada go hard-USSR supporting.

[stg58fal]

Originally Posted by weswood

Wasn't it the Cubans in the original? With some Soviet advisors? I find that less believable than North Korea. On the other hand, if the plot was China invades becuase of the US's inabilty to repay it's debt, I could see that.

Yes, it was Cubans and Soviets in the original. Once the Cubans figured out that they couldn't do the job themselves, the Soviet presence increased.

Again, I just figure the Cubans were responsible for that area as part of a larger overall invasion/occupation. Which, IIRC, is pretty much what the pilot says after the kids recover him after him being shot down.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I'll probably watch it when it comes on cable.

The premise, however, is ridiculous. The DPRK does not have the troops, firepower, transport capability, and combat power in general to invade the US. I may be wrong due to the intervening years, but in the late 1980s-early 1990s (back when I was in the loop), their air-to-air refueling capability was almost nonexistent, and the training of DPRK pilots for air-to-air refueling even more nonexistent. And that's assuming that the aircraft is set up for air-to-air refueling (the DPRK tended to remove this equipment if the aircraft had any onboard to lighten the aircraft, giving it slightly less wing loading and a touch more speed).

And the DPRK would never reduce their combat power enough to invade the US. The DPRK leadership keeps their people in line by keeping them paranoid about a South Korean/UN invasion of the DPRK. Even now, the South Koreans could defeat the DPRK by themselves.

Like I said, ridiculous premise. But what the hell, I'll watch it.

Yes, but my nation is going to have to suck chinese cock for the next century or so as we spiral downwards so of course we can't offend our Red masters.

Fuck why are we even making this movie, IT'S ALREADY HAPPENED. Just digitally slap best buy logos on the "North Korean" troops and be done with it.

[HorseSoldier]

One of the background events in the original was that communist Cuba and Nicaragua basically overran Central America (and Mexico? don't recall) before the actual invasion of the US. Even then they were an adjunct to the Soviets -- I don't really remember any Cuban troops in the movie beyond the speaking-role character that seemed to be sort of an advisor to the Soviet troops (been a while since I watched it, though). All the guys they were actually fighting seem to have looked pretty European and/or been speaking Russian.

[weswood]

My reasonong about Cuba is that it's not very big. Maybe as an ally of USSR, being responsible for that local area, yeah I can see that.

[Sith]

I'll see it one of these days, maybe in the theater, maybe not.

The only way I could see North Korea invading the US is if (and that's a big if):

A) It's many years from now.

B) They have built their military up using this:

http://www.raremetalblog.com/2012/08...rump-card.html

"South Korea estimates the total value of the North’s mineral deposits at more than $6 trillion."

This hit the news circut a few days ago, some are calling it a "game changer." Right now both the South Koreans and the Chinese are fighting to take advantage of the situation. Either way you look at it though, NK wins big. They don't have to sell weapons anymore, they can make tons of money legally.

[Webstral]

In the original film, Cuba and Nicaragua [each] reach troop strength goals of 500k. Mexico is plunged into revolution. The Latino colonel who appears several times in the film mentions having fought in Mexico. I take this to mean that the Cubans and Nicaraguans are able to preposition men and materiel in Mexico under the guise of helping one side. Why the US would permit such a thing is beyond me, but we’re dealing with an example of right-wing propaganda (albeit hugely enjoyable propaganda).

Anyway, the Hispanic Reds roll up through Texas and get as far north as Kansas. Apparently, they don’t do much further west because US forces stop the southern invaders at Kansas, the Rockies, and the Mississippi. California is part of Free America. The Soviets reinforce with 60 divisions, cross the Bering Strait, cut the Alaska Pipeline, and attack across Canada. US-Canadian forces stop them “butt cold”.

I don’t understand why the airborne troops were dropped in Colorado in the first place. What purpose are they supposed to be serving there? Why aren’t they crushed by 4th ID, which is just down the road in Colorado Springs?

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I don’t understand why the airborne troops were dropped in Colorado in the first place. What purpose are they supposed to be serving there?

Cutting major east-west transportation routes across the Rockies? Ground assault on Cheyenne Mountain? Soviet High Command wanted to secure a strategic supply of elk steak?

- C.

[weswood]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

Cutting major east-west transportation routes across the Rockies? Ground assault on Cheyenne Mountain? Soviet High Command wanted to secure a strategic supply of elk steak?

- C.

Yummmm. Elk. Pack the guns, we're invading Colorado! Might even do some skiing!

[Cdnwolf]

The Pueblo Chemical Depot is a chemical weapons storage site located in Pueblo County, Colorado, United States.

The depot houses 2,611 tons (2,369 metric tons) of mustard agent in approximately 780,000 munitions, equivalent to about seven percent of the original chemical material stockpile of the United States

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Webstral

The Soviets reinforce with 60 divisions, cross the Bering Strait, cut the Alaska Pipeline, and attack across Canada. US-Canadian forces stop them “butt cold”.

US-Canadian? Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...c8jJ0TjSY&NR=1

Nothing about the Canadians, and they got deep into the US before they were stopped, so they got through Canada.

Note that's not a dig at real Canadians, certainly not anyone here, just that in the movie our only remaining allies are "England...and they won't last much longer," and "Six-hundred million screaming Chinamen."

Edit: also in that same clip he says they attacked Calumet because it was a major Rocky Mountain pass.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I don’t understand why the airborne troops were dropped in Colorado in the first place. What purpose are they supposed to be serving there? Why aren’t they crushed by 4th ID, which is just down the road in Colorado Springs?

I'm not defending the film- it only seemed plausible when I was a kid, scared of impending nuclear annihilation- but maybe the 4th ID was already elsewhere. I don't know the chronology in the film's backstory, but presumably the Reds had struck first in another state[s] and the 4th was deployed there to meet/defeat the threat.

Obviously, the film's premise was pretty ridiculous. As a war flick, Red Dawn doesn't hold up under close scrutiny- not then, not now. It "worked" because many Americans felt a very real fear of the Soviet menace at the time. If anything, the film was/is a valid social commentary on late Cold War America.

As far as the new film goes, I don't think many Americans are scared of the NKs. I don't think it's going to have the visceral emotional appeal that the original did back in the '80s; it's just going to be another '80s remake action film flop that relies on bad CGI to make up for a terrible story/script/acting/etc.

Now, if the writers/directors/producers didn't cop out by casting NK as the baddy, and instead made the PRC the enemy, the new Red Dawn would be saying something.