Red Dawn Official Trailer

[HorseSoldier]

Agreed. The original movie worked because it touched on a cultural meme that resonated with audiences. I think this remake won't do very well because a North Korean invasion isn't a concern for anyone in America. Chinese invasion, maybe, though I think a movie where American debt becomes so bad we're invaded by Chinese repo men instead of the military would resonate with more Americans these days.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Now, if the writers/directors/producers didn't cop out by casting NK as the baddy, and instead made the PRC the enemy, the new Red Dawn would be saying something.

That's what they were going to do. Our ChiCom masters forbade it.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

That's what they were going to do. Our ChiCom masters forbade it.

That wasn't hard to predict.

[Cdnwolf]

Soooo we are all intelligent (and in some cases extremely good-looking) people...

Logistically (and FOR GAMING PURPOSE ONLY) ... how would you go about invading the USA?

I like the beginning concept of World in Conflict and sneaking the initial attack force in super freighters carrying ordinary cargo containers...

[HorseSoldier]

Without US nuclear disarmament (or US nuclear inventory being neutralized by some technobabble handwavium or something) I don't know if there is a really functional plan for invasion of the US. There were a lot of world leaders and pundits who were seriously afraid of a possible US nuclear response to the 9/11 attacks in the days immediately following them, and it's hard to think of a scenario where an enemy putting an invasion force on US soil not being considered grounds for popping some nukes on opponent's homeland. (Not to mention the possibility of using nukes to destroy convoys and fleets bringing in the main invasion force.)

Even the possibility of a nuke response is a limiter -- we can debate whether the current or previous or hypothetical future presidents have the willingness to escalate things to the nuclear level, but it's always a card in the deck.

So, I'd say the first issue would be that the US would have to voluntarily divest itself of nuclear weapons. Then you'd probably also need the USN and USAF gutted to the point where they can't conventionally contest control of the seas. (Alternately, I suppose you could look at Mexico or Canada being a staging base for an invading force, but there would still be a logistical support coming in from across the Atlantic or Pacific and still the issue of interdiction to address.)

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Soften up the east and west coasts with EMP strikes, hit port facilities up and down the Mississippi with low-yield ground bursts, same for dams along the TVA waterways, paste DC/Maryland with a high-low strike from subs like just offshore. Just blow Cheyenne mountain off the face of the earth.

Day 2, (assuming I'm the Russians) come in airborne and seaborne from Venezuela and Cuba, Sea/land down the PCH through Alaska and Canada, Feint the north sea fleet off Newf. and Maine to try and draw out the North Atlantic fleet, then hit them with nuc-tipped ASMs and torpedos.

Out west, hit Midway and Guam (oh and while I'm thinking about it, pretty much erase Diego Garcia with a tight 10mt pattern, maybe 2 or 3). Leave Hawaii untouched, but on the same day I'm doing the trick in the North Atlantic have an equal weight force moving strongly towards Hawaii and the West Coast again to sucker out the fleet(s) and smash them.

D+3 heavy conventional bombardment (yes) of transportation hubs across the CONUS while troops are moving down. Well prior to this I'd have compiled extremely detailed maps of alternate routes (like, for Central Florida, plans to move up 17/92 rather than I-4; smash I-4 out of existence in downtown Orlando, at Daytona and Tampa), rely HEAVILY on Airdrop.

Offer the Mexicans big hunks of the Southwest in exchange for basing options, play on the whole "the US hates brown people" angle, maybe use the Cubans and Venezuelans as intermediaries to secure that, for the big land push.

Despite a desire to take the nation intact, there's places that'd just have to get glassed. Ft. Hood, to prevent an armored counterattack, for example. Key West and Homestead would each get small stuff, like maybe a trio of 25kts each, to keep them from meddling with Cuba and Venezuela's movements through the Caribbean.

England at this point is going ape-shit, so they of course are getting a few "warning shots" (SSBN presence in the Channel and off Ireland, etc.) USAREUR will require some resources, too, since that's right in the back yard...

LOTS of sleeper teams. Lots of sabotage. If I'm looking at this 10-15 years out, even try and turn (or infiltrate!) local politics. Small towns are always the hitch...but suddenly if the mayor of Calumet (ha) wants to surrender peacefully, that makes a huge difference.

I'd play heavily on the strong leftist element in the US: tell Occupy you're here to make the 1% "pay their fair share". At gunpoint make hospitals provide free healthcare. Just hand out food from the "capitalist oppressors' " stores and shops, etc. There's plenty upon plenty of people in this country now that'd willingly collaborate upon such an event.

[Sith]

I think this invasion scenario makes sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortres...ca_(board_game)

[stg58fal]

Originally Posted by Cdnwolf

Soooo we are all intelligent (and in some cases extremely good-looking) people...

Logistically (and FOR GAMING PURPOSE ONLY) ... how would you go about invading the USA?

Exactly how the Chinese have been doing it for the last 15 years, and the Mexicans even longer than that (though the Mexicans aren't nearly as organized about it as the chinese, and their invasion is more of a population pressure-release valve and their country's 2nd biggest source of income):

- send millions of "illegal aliens", consisting almost entirely of military-age males (who are, of course, actually *in* the military;
- supply these 'gangs of criminals' with military grade weaponry, explosives, and anti-tank weapons;
- ensure the right palms get greased so my "illegals" don't get deported or locked up, and are allowed to take jobs with the highway department, utility companies, airports, sea ports, refineries, etc.
- "illegals" begin s campaign of gang warfare that make Kosovo look positively tame. Add in some sabotage to cripple or at least delay the .gov's response.
- protest loudly in the UN about how my citizens, who only want a better life, are being treated by the US .gov, and are basically slaves. Have a lot of pictures and video of 'innocent' illegals being beaten or killed by "government death squads".
- send even more soldiers, as well as heavy equipment, in container ships as has already been mentioned. While they're en route:
- sabotage the fuel distribution, transportation, and communication networks in this country.
- once my people are in the cities, there's almost no chance of nuclear, bio, or chem weapons being used by the US .gov, since they'd kill millions of Americans (and of course Washington, District of Corruption, would be one of the cities I occupied and shut down. The politicos aren't going to do anything that might risk their own safety and comfort).
-make absolutely certain that no matter what else gets destroyed or interrupted, there are no interruptions in evening tv, sporting events, or deliveries of beer. So long as American Idol and other garbage and 'the ball game' are on, and there's beer in the fridge, the sheep of this country will remain fat, happy, and complacent.

I'm sure I can think of more, but that will do for now.

[HorseSoldier]

Originally Posted by Sith

I think this invasion scenario makes sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortres...ca_(board_game)

I remember that game and playing it a few times with friends in middle or high school. Seemed like it always boiled down to the US holding out long enough to ion cannon the bad guys off the map.

[weswood]

Originally Posted by stg58fal

Exactly how the Chinese have been doing it for the last 15 years, and the Mexicans even longer than that (though the Mexicans aren't nearly as organized about it as the chinese, and their invasion is more of a population pressure-release valve and their country's 2nd biggest source of income):

- send millions of "illegal aliens", consisting almost entirely of military-age males (who are, of course, actually *in* the military;
- supply these 'gangs of criminals' with military grade weaponry, explosives, and anti-tank weapons;
- ensure the right palms get greased so my "illegals" don't get deported or locked up, and are allowed to take jobs with the highway department, utility companies, airports, sea ports, refineries, etc.
- "illegals" begin s campaign of gang warfare that make Kosovo look positively tame. Add in some sabotage to cripple or at least delay the .gov's response.
- protest loudly in the UN about how my citizens, who only want a better life, are being treated by the US .gov, and are basically slaves. Have a lot of pictures and video of 'innocent' illegals being beaten or killed by "government death squads".
- send even more soldiers, as well as heavy equipment, in container ships as has already been mentioned. While they're en route:
- sabotage the fuel distribution, transportation, and communication networks in this country.
- once my people are in the cities, there's almost no chance of nuclear, bio, or chem weapons being used by the US .gov, since they'd kill millions of Americans (and of course Washington, District of Corruption, would be one of the cities I occupied and shut down. The politicos aren't going to do anything that might risk their own safety and comfort).
-make absolutely certain that no matter what else gets destroyed or interrupted, there are no interruptions in evening tv, sporting events, or deliveries of beer. So long as American Idol and other garbage and 'the ball game' are on, and there's beer in the fridge, the sheep of this country will remain fat, happy, and complacent.

I'm sure I can think of more, but that will do for now.

Oh crap. OHHH CRAAPPPP! Uhhh talk to ya'll later, got to go buy more ammo, you're scaring me.

[TrailerParkJawa]

I saw the trailer a few days ago. The only thing I thought was cool was the first shoot down of the transport. Otherwise this is a movie that I won't see. It should NOT have been remade. Different world, different times.

An invasion of the USA has always been been fiction but at least during the Cold War we were paranoid and I was in 9th grade and thought that shit was soooo real!

Even if you swap the NKs for China it don't matter they can't do it and even if they could their economy collapses instantly buy invading the their export markets.

[Olefin]

The NK's basically only export to China, Iran and Cuba - so invading the US wont hurt their export markets at all. Cant wait to see it - hopefully this time they have enough of a budget to show that an RPG exploding inside a helicopter makes it go BOOM and fall to the ground - not just turn off smoking.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I don’t understand why the airborne troops were dropped in Colorado in the first place. What purpose are they supposed to be serving there? Why aren’t they crushed by 4th ID, which is just down the road in Colorado Springs?

Honestly, once I was grown up and could think it through, it does make a sort of sense. There is only 3 relatively easy ways to go from the east to the west once you get past the plains. The southern route in Red Dawn got shot when the mexicans went north: there is no way they don't get the literally 3 miles past the Mexican border to cut that route in southern California. Up north, you have the old Great Northern/Milwaukee Road route through montana, as well a *just* to the south you have the UP. All three routes get necked down hard on the Columbia River. That leaves just the middle route, which is the DRG&W and the UP shooting through towards Salt Lake city. Both of those are part of the Colorado Joint Line. Its also where the southern route comes up against the middle road as well, so its a huge transportation choke point. I assumed what the Reds was doing was cutting the middle road, forcing the US to depend on the northern route to go east to west, and what with the push from Alaska, the question is how far down into BC or even Washington State they get: at any rate, the Columbia River Choke point is in *very* easy range of Tac Air. So basically, in the Red Dawn Scenario, there is *no* rail traffic from the Eastern US to the Pacific Coast, which means it will eventually wither on the Vine.

Not a bad plan as it goes.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I guess the first thing I'd do is surreptitiously bankroll the election of a president who had no interest in seeing the US maintain military and economic superiority and indeed actively disdained it going so far as to deeming that the US would "lead from behind" in any activities it did undertake.

I'd make sure he was a charming ideologue, a darling to the youth yet with enough heft and gravitas that the baby-boomer generation would be drawn to him as well. I'd make sure it was someone who would fiddle while a fiscal crisis burned assuring that if his administration wasn't the one directly responsible for castrating any ability for the U.S. to maintain a global response (and domestic response) capability, his successors would be in such a deep financial hole that there'd be absolutely no way they could fix both the economy and a domestic defense budget. I'd make sure he was someone who would convince our allies we were no longer worth assisting, by way of subtle insults (small, cultural ones), direct refusal to assist with defense (like denying an ABM shield), and insistence on ignoring regional crises regarding other nations' manufacture of WMDs and vows to use them on our allies. Thus, whether he was in office or his successor was in office, by the time we called for help there'd be no-one left willing to lift a finger when someone "kicked the door in" on us and the "whole rotten structure" came falling down.

That's how I'd start.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Thinking about Red Dawn (the original, not the remake our ChiCom masters permitted), Powers Booth makes the comment "They know we won't use nukes on our own soil."

Maybe it's just me, but isn't that just a little bit fishy?

I mean...if ever there's a do-or-die type situation when you've gotta use everything you have, isn't that it?

Or maybe he meant strategic nukes: maybe there's been a use of tac nukes along the front lines already?

Of course, leaving a glowing crater where scenic Denver used to be is also an easy way to help the commies prove their whole "AMERICA IS A WHOREHOUSE WHERE THE REVOLUTIONARY IDEALS OF YOUR FOREFATHERS HAVE BEEN FORGOTTEN." (if I remember the mandatory reeducation slideshow from the scene at the drive-in)

[weswood]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

I guess the first thing I'd do is surreptitiously bankroll the election of a president who had no interest in seeing the US maintain military and economic superiority and indeed actively disdained it going so far as to deeming that the US would "lead from behind" in any activities it did undertake.

I'd make sure he was a charming ideologue, a darling to the youth yet with enough heft and gravitas that the baby-boomer generation would be drawn to him as well. I'd make sure it was someone who would fiddle while a fiscal crisis burned assuring that if his administration wasn't the one directly responsible for castrating any ability for the U.S. to maintain a global response (and domestic response) capability, his successors would be in such a deep financial hole that there'd be absolutely no way they could fix both the economy and a domestic defense budget. I'd make sure he was someone who would convince our allies we were no longer worth assisting, by way of subtle insults (small, cultural ones), direct refusal to assist with defense (like denying an ABM shield), and insistence on ignoring regional crises regarding other nations' manufacture of WMDs and vows to use them on our allies. Thus, whether he was in office or his successor was in office, by the time we called for help there'd be no-one left willing to lift a finger when someone "kicked the door in" on us and the "whole rotten structure" came falling down.

That's how I'd start.

Would this hypothetical President also be considering a treaty with the UN that would affect private ownership of weapons? And maybe have a mainstream media obviously biased towards him?

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by weswood

Would this hypothetical President also be considering a treaty with the UN that would affect private ownership of weapons? And maybe have a mainstream media obviously biased towards him?

That treaty would have to be couched in such obfuscating language that the subjects...erm, citizens of this hypothetical United States as described in this scenario would be entirely unsuspecting of the abrogation of 2nd Amendment rights such a treaty would in fact incur.

[Snake Eyes]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

That treaty would have to be couched in such obfuscating language that the subjects...erm, citizens of this hypothetical United States as described in this scenario would be entirely unsuspecting of the abrogation of 2nd Amendment rights such a treaty would in fact incur.

That's what internet experts are for.

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes

That's what internet experts are for.

Thank goodness we're here!

- C.

[TrailerParkJawa]

Originally Posted by Olefin

The NK's basically only export to China, Iran and Cuba - so invading the US wont hurt their export markets at all. Cant wait to see it - hopefully this time they have enough of a budget to show that an RPG exploding inside a helicopter makes it go BOOM and fall to the ground - not just turn off smoking.

I was referring to China would kill its own export markets buy invading the USA.
Probably could have worded that better.


You know I always kinda like the smoking RPG hit on the Hind. Just thought it looked cool even it should have killed the crew or crashed the bird. I managed to see the original red dawn a few weeks ago. Still classic camp still unrealistic still kind a cool.

[Rockwolf66]

Originally Posted by TrailerParkJawa

I was referring to China would kill its own export markets buy invading the USA.
Probably could have worded that better.


You know I always kinda like the smoking RPG hit on the Hind. Just thought it looked cool even it should have killed the crew or crashed the bird. I managed to see the original red dawn a few weeks ago. Still classic camp still unrealistic still kind a cool.

According to a friend who flys for the US Army that RPG-7 should have blown that hind in two. Think about how powerful that RPG is. it hit inside the crew compartment at and upwards, outwards and rearwards angle. At the very least that Hind should have been spinning out of control from a busted tail rotor.

[Snake Eyes]

I just had a chat with the 13 year old me who saw the original on opening day when it was released in the theaters in 1984 and he confirms that it was 114 minutes of pure awesome then and still is now. Reserving judgment on the remake.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Rockwolf66

According to a friend who flys for the US Army that RPG-7 should have blown that hind in two. Think about how powerful that RPG is. it hit inside the crew compartment at and upwards, outwards and rearwards angle. At the very least that Hind should have been spinning out of control from a busted tail rotor.

Dud round?

[Rockwolf66]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

Dud round?

Most likely way the hind could have survived even then it would have immediatly returned to base. Very few pilots are willing to fly an aircraft that just took that sort of hit and not head to the nearest friend'y mechanic.

[Legbreaker]

Even just a "near miss" might be cause for an "unscheduled oil change".
In times of stress, the laundryman is your friend...

[Olefin]

similarly I hope if they show tank battles that they will have the US tanks actually be able to hit the enemy ones on either the first or second round! That US tank gunner in the movie was pretty bad - and having that tank just sit there like that should have ended its day pretty quickly.

I remember seeing that movie myself when it first came out. Loved seeing kids my age kick Soviet butt.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Olefin

similarly I hope if they show tank battles that they will have the US tanks actually be able to hit the enemy ones on either the first or second round! That US tank gunner in the movie was pretty bad - and having that tank just sit there like that should have ended its day pretty quickly.

I remember seeing that movie myself when it first came out. Loved seeing kids my age kick Soviet butt.

In honesty the Soviet tankers were pretty awful too.