The Royal Belgian Navy

[dragoon500ly]

The Royal Belgium Navy at the start of the Twilight War (1996)

Personnel: 4,418 personnel.
Naval Aviation: 3 Alouette III B helos. The Belgian Air Force operates 5 Sea King Mk48 helos for SAR duties.

4 Wielingen-class Type E71 Frigates
F 910 Wielingen; F 911 Westdiep; F 912 Wandelaar; F 913 Westhinder
Displacement of 2,283 tons. Speed of 25kts. Crew of 160.
Armament consists of two twin MM38 Exocet SSM launchers, one eight-cell NATO Sea Sparrow SAM launcher, one single 100mm Model 1968 Gun, one six barreled 375mm ASW Mortar, two single torpedo tubes. Extensive modernization has lowered the ships speed from their original 28kts. Intended to add Goalkeeper CIWS, but shortage of funds prevents this.

0 + 10 deep-sea minehunter/sweepers
Displacement of 610 tons. Speed of 15kts. Crew of 30. Armament consists of one single 20mm, two single 12.7mm HMGs. A joint project with Norway, Holland and Portugal. Has seen extensive delays and cost overruns.

10 Tripartite-class mine hunters
M 915 Aster; M 916 Bellis; M 917 Crocus; M 918 Dianthus; M 919 Fuchsia; M 920 Iris; M 921 Lobelia; M 922 Myosotis; M 923; Narcis; M 924 Primula
Displacement of 595 tons. Speed of 15kts. Crew of 49. Armament consists of one single 20mm AA Gun, two single 12.7mm HMGs. Class of mine hunters built in cooperation with the French and Dutch. Glass-reinforced plastic hull. Uses two remote controlled mine locators. Built with a decompression chamber to support mine clearance divers.

6 ex US Dash-class oceangoing minesweepers/mine hunters
M 902 J.E. van Haverbeke; M 903 A.F. Dufour; D 904 De Brouwer; M 906 Breydel; M 908 Georges Truffaut; M 909 Francois Bovesse
Displacement of 780 tons. Speed of 14kts. Crew of 72. Armament consists of one twin 12.7mm HMG. Fitted with remote-controlled mine hunting submersibles. Wooden hull. M 907 Artevelde stricken in 1985.

4 ex US Adjutant-class coastal minesweepers
M 929 Heist; M 930 Rochefort; M 932 Nieuwpoort; M 933 Koksijde
Displacement of 390 tons. Speed of 13.5kts. Crew of 48. Armament consists of one single 40mm Bofors. All slated for retirement in 1992.

1 Zinnia-class command & logistic support ship for mine countermeasures
A 961 Zinnia
Displacement of 2,685 tons. Speed of 18kts. Crew of 123. Armament consists of three single 40mm Bofors, one Alouette IIIB helo.

1 Godetia-class command & logistic support ship for mine countermeasures
A 960 Godetia
Displacement of 2,500 tons. Speed of 18kts. Crew of 95.
Armament consists of one single 40mm Bofors, two twin and two single 12.7mm HMGs. Can also act as oceanographic research ship. Formerly served as the Royal Yacht.

Source is the “Combat Fleets of the World: 1993”

[Olefin]

Considering how closely the Belgian Navy worked with its other NATO counterparts I could see at least a couple of their ships refusing to just sit there and not join the war on the Russians. Also remember that a significant part of Belguim is not French in nature but actually more Dutch.

Thus the chance of ships defecting with crews or command personnel who dont have French ethnic backgrounds is a distinct possiblity.

[Webstral]

It's fascinating how the Belgian Navy appears purpose-built for mine warfare. There's good sense to it, of course. Keeping the sea lanes to the ports of northwestern Europe open would have been of paramount importance.

[TrailerParkJawa]

Originally Posted by Webstral

It's fascinating how the Belgian Navy appears purpose-built for mine warfare. There's good sense to it, of course. Keeping the sea lanes to the ports of northwestern Europe open would have been of paramount importance.

I noticed the same thing. It's like they are NATOs minesweeper force. From an economic point of view it probably makes sense. They aren't a big country and they can make the most of their budgets using less expensive ships.

[Olefin]

Keep in mind how far inland Antwerp - its not a typical coastal port. It location makes it very very easy to mine the channel leading to it. In many ways its similar to Narvik - i.e. you can hold the port but cant use it because you mine the approach channels effectively and thus its useless.

Plus Belguim really has no need for a blue water navy with no colonies or overseas dependencies so it takes a much more brown water navy approach.

[Olefin]

To the list you want to add the following MSI class inshore minesweepers - they had been decommissioned by 1993 but held in storage for war emergency (similar to the British Ham or Ley class)

M471 Hasselt - transferred to Belgian Sea Cadet Corps in 1993 and brought back into service with the beginning of the war
M474 Turnhout
M475 Tongeren
M476 Merksem
M477 Oudenaarde - decommissioned 1989 & stored on dry land - brought back into service with the war start
M478 Herstal
M482 Visé
M483 Ougrée
M484 Dinant
M485 Andenne

You also have the old river patrol boat P902 still in commission

[RN7]

In wartime in Europe the Soviet Army would have driven straight for the Rhine River and then the Channel ports in Belgium and the Netherlands. Keeping the English Channel and the ports of Rotterdam, Antwerp, Zeebrugge and others clear of mines was a defence priority for NATO as reinforcement from Britain and America would have largely come through them. Belgium would also have been fairly conscious of the importance of keeping the English Channel open as it was overrun fairly rapidly by the Germans in both world wars, and the Soviets threat had replace the German one and wasn't that far away either in East Germany. Belgium was never much of a naval power so building a fleet of mainly cheap minesweepers made sense to them as it was useful to NATO, and Belgium could spend more on their army and air force.

[Olefin]

In game terms those old minesweepers are very important to France and Belguim as both Soviet and NATO laid mines would need to be cleared to keep their ports operational. And the Netherlands, which is at war with both countries, would most likely be using mines as a way to hit back against the French and Belgians.

Also ships like that dont have the fuel requirements of larger ships and as such are the kinds of ships that parties would encounter, either in the open sea, in the hands of a marauder or pirate or possibly as part of an adventure to grab one for their own use.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Olefin

To the list you want to add the following MSI class inshore minesweepers - they had been decommissioned by 1993 but held in storage for war emergency (similar to the British Ham or Ley class)

M471 Hasselt - transferred to Belgian Sea Cadet Corps in 1993 and brought back into service with the beginning of the war
M474 Turnhout
M475 Tongeren
M476 Merksem
M477 Oudenaarde - decommissioned 1989 & stored on dry land - brought back into service with the war start
M478 Herstal
M482 Visé
M483 Ougrée
M484 Dinant
M485 Andenne

You also have the old river patrol boat P902 still in commission

when I was doing the research for this I kept coming across notations that this class had been docked for poor material condition that was supposed to have been repaired in the 1990-1993 time frame, Belgium was also having problems with military funding and the rebuilds kept getting pushed back, thus I did not include the class. My own thoughts on this are if the condition of this class was so bad that that they had to be pulled from service, AND the possibility of war time damage to active units tying up existing facilities, what are the likely hood of such a class being pulled back into service? And don't forget that NATO did have a plan to attach minesweeping gear to fishing boats for inshore use.

[Olefin]

i would think they would have been put back into service - but you notice I didnt include (with a couple of exceptions based on individual boats being treated differently) anything that had been out of commission too long - thus only the most recently decommissioned boats

also considering the loss rates on boats even if they thought they could only get a few months of service out of them that would be enough if you look at how many ships were lost in a very short time during the war

[unkated]

Originally Posted by Webstral

It's fascinating how the Belgian Navy appears purpose-built for mine warfare. There's good sense to it, of course. Keeping the sea lanes to the ports of northwestern Europe open would have been of paramount importance.

That was a purposeful choice by NATO and Belgium made in the 1970s. As post-WW2 ships were retired, and left without a need to support overseas colonies, Belgium held down her costs and concentrated on (smaller) anti-mine vessels and technologies that would be deployed close to home - the North Sea and English Channel and left ocean wandering to France, Britain and the United States, and coastal missile boats and submarines to Germany and Norway who would be a front line against Warsaw Pact navies.

Uncle Ted

[James Langham2]

In our history, I see the fleet being mainly used to protect Belgian waters with the threat of attacking anything found there.

[Olefin]

I agree with you there James - with it possibly being in action against Netherlands and German ships as well as Soviet and marauders. From reading the canon those NATO navies would have had engagements with the Belgians and French and are still at war with them.

And considering the state of the German and Dutch navies one of the few ways they would have to hit back against both Belgium and France would be naval mines - which can be emplaced by anything the size of a small fishing boat and up which there are still a lot of afloat.

You could also see a renegade Belgian ship or ships that refused to join in the attacks on fellow NATO members either in exile in the UK or joining to fight their fellow countrymen - especially those crewed mainly by Flemish crewmembers

[lordroel]

My guess is that the Belgian navy will be split in two, one side which is manned by French speaking Wallonia crew will side with the French and the other who crew come from the dutch speaking Flanders will join the Netherlands where they will most likely operate from Naval base Den Helder as part of the Admiral Benelux (ABNL) which is the combined military staff of the Royal Netherlands Navy and the Royal Belgian navy.

[RN7]

Originally Posted by lordroel

My guess is that the Belgian navy will be split in two, one side which is manned by French speaking Wallonia crew will side with the French and the other who crew come from the dutch speaking Flanders will join the Netherlands where they will most likely operate from Naval base Den Helder as part of the Admiral Benelux (ABNL) which is the combined military staff of the Royal Netherlands Navy and the Royal Belgian navy.

I think by the time the French decide to invade the Netherlands any Flemish officers in the Belgian Navy would be assigned to shore duties. Belgian ships used in action along the Dutch coast would also likely be operating under French control and accompanied by French ships.

[Olefin]

You have to wonder how much the Belgians will allow themselves to be put under the French thumb. Belguim freely unified itself with France, not under the threat of invasion.

There is a very good chance that any defections may have occurred at the time of the union itself and even before the French and Belgian forces entered the Netherlands.

[lordroel]

Originally Posted by Olefin

You have to wonder how much the Belgians will allow themselves to be put under the French thumb. Belguim freely unified itself with France, not under the threat of invasion.

There is a very good chance that any defections may have occurred at the time of the union itself and even before the French and Belgian forces entered the Netherlands.

There will be Flemish revolt if the French occupy Belgium and the Netherlands will support that revolt with the limit resources its has available. The french/Wallonia invasion of the Netherlands will bring the Flemish and Netherlands closer together.

Originally Posted by RN7

I think by the time the French decide to invade the Netherlands any Flemish officers in the Belgian Navy would be assigned to shore duties. Belgian ships used in action along the Dutch coast would also likely be operating under French control and accompanied by French ships.

If that happens then it will be one of many sparks that will start a Flemish revolt as it will show the Flemish people that they are second rate citizens not worthy to be in command of a navy ship or to serve on board them.

[RN7]

Originally Posted by lordroel

There will be Flemish revolt if the French occupy Belgium and the Netherlands will support that revolt with the limit resources its has available. The french/Wallonia invasion of the Netherlands will bring the Flemish and Netherlands closer together.

The French don't occupy Belgium in T2K. Belgium and France form the Franco-Belgian Union when they leave NATO after other NATO members decide to support Germany against the Warsaw Pact in East Germany during the Reunification of Germany. Franco-Belgian forces then advance to the Rhine River and cross into German and Dutch territory after the nuclear exchanges to secure the borders against hoards of refugees and military units. The Dutch are still resisting north of the Rhine in the Netherlands, but the Germans are more preoccupied with fighting the Soviets and haven't done very much to confront the French.

Originally Posted by lordroel

If that happens then it will be one of many sparks that will start a Flemish revolt as it will show the Flemish people that they are second rate citizens not worthy to be in command of a navy ship or to serve on board them.

There are plenty of Belgian units in the French II and III Corps that are tasked with securing the Dead Zone in Germany and the Netherlands. Many of these Belgian troops will be Flemish.

[lordroel]

thanks for explaining it to me RN7.

[Olefin]

The question really is would the Flemish go along so willingly with a war against the Netherlands? Its one thing to go after the Germans since the Germans havent exactly been lilly white as far as treatment of Belguim in the 20th century - you could even see them seeing what they are doing as payback for all the "fun" they had from 1914-1918 and 1940-45 - but the Netherlands is another thing. Basically they are fighting their own people there - the Walloons are another story entirely.

[James Langham2]

Originally Posted by Olefin

The question really is would the Flemish go along so willingly with a war against the Netherlands? Its one thing to go after the Germans since the Germans havent exactly been lilly white as far as treatment of Belguim in the 20th century - you could even see them seeing what they are doing as payback for all the "fun" they had from 1914-1918 and 1940-45 - but the Netherlands is another thing. Basically they are fighting their own people there - the Walloons are another story entirely.

Alternatively you could see it as an attempt to reunite the people of the south with their own kind in the manner of the former Yugoslavia. Taking this anology further could create all sorts of local alliances and tensions.