AGIlity related question

[TiggerCCW UK]

That was an issue I'd had with the idea as well, although the Army Air Corps are apparently issuing SA-80 carbines to Apache pilots which makes of think that the AH-64 cockpit might be bigger than I thought!

[copeab]

If your campaign plays up ammo shortages, then carrying several weapons (of different calibers) makes some sense.

OTOH, if ammo grows on trees, then more than three guns of all types is hard to justify.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by FMDeCorba

It is indeed a game, and I apologize. I was just a little annoyed that a drunken misunderstanding was being held against me on a public forum like that, uncool. Unfortunately, I stooped to their level and fired back.

Munckinesque "biigest caliber and many of them " armed characters can be a drag and I shal try to smithe them down with the dreary dul of weapons maintenance and cleaning as well as the prolonged routine of getting ready every morning and night .In a pitch dark tent at minus 5 its enough hassel to find room for 1 gun in a safe spot let alone 5 when you are dead beat and wet and the others are aklready snoring blissfully .

as for the ass gun thing - its just funny is all and people in here are generous minded enough to chuckle and no more about the littl eepisode .For the record -all of the players inserted a firearm in a body cavity at that time .I guess it was a phase.

Get em back by retelling the stories of their many misdeeds.

[headquarters]

Will do my best .Promise.

Originally Posted by FMDeCorba

Nevertheless, it boils down to preferences of style.
All narrative entertainment relies on a certain level of what is called "suspension of disbelief", meaning that the zombie movie director(for instance) has to make a good effort at making the zombies seem "real", or it quickly becomes a really terrible movie. Or perhaps entertaining in a turkey sort of way.
I might be kinda picky, but i vastly prefer movies that are able to convince me that the portrayed firefights look and sound a bit like they do in reality to John Woo movies, for example.

If a character chooses to strap up with 6 different pistols and ammo, they should also be reminded that the rigs itch when they get sweaty, the pistols themselves will sometimes snag, sitting in a car with a revolver in your lower back will be pretty annoying etc. Being even slightly uncomfortable over several hours will lessen focus and performance for anyone, and hence should be reflected in some sort of fatigue penalty or otherwise.

Playing according to what is optimum "use" of the vanilla rules results in the protagonists being constantly clad in thick armor (rain or shine), always carrying an assortment of big bore rifles and shotguns and always carrying excactly the load allowed by the characters score without encumbrance, etc.-- Bad movie.

[FMDeCorba]

Thank you!
I am not in favour of swamping the game with various penalty tables based on number of weapons, skillets or ghettoblasters carried on person or levels of discomfort etc.(this, by the way shouldn´t be determined by a base score IMO, it´s uncomfortable wearing many metal objects whether you are very agile or not), or reducing the game exclusively to a question of "realism".
However, the overall determining factor of player behaviour in this respect is incentive . If it generally pays (XP-wise or character survivability)to carry a platoons worth of ammo, heavy armor etc., then that practice will continue. If professional (or at least matching our understanding of such) soldiering is rewarded, it´s highly probable you will see more of that.

Looking forward to the next session and impact of the new house damage rules BTW

[headquarters]

Will do that to .

The house damage rules basically means that proper first aid becomes more crucial to play right .Also ANY hit can result in a critical hit with a horrifying result .I particularily like the one where internal bleeding into the lung basically drown the character and he gets an ever increasing penalty to his con checks to keep alive.
Also horrible disfigurement with charisma score loss is a winner .

NOTE - gen Pain intends to use his old pussy rules for his campaign .Since he goes first dont be lulled into any sense of false security by his softy antics.

Originally Posted by FMDeCorba

Thank you!
I am not in favour of swamping the game with various penalty tables based on number of weapons, skillets or ghettoblasters carried on person or levels of discomfort etc.(this, by the way shouldn´t be determined by a base score IMO, it´s uncomfortable wearing many metal objects whether you are very agile or not), or reducing the game exclusively to a question of "realism".
However, the overall determining factor of player behaviour in this respect is incentive . If it generally pays (XP-wise or character survivability)to carry a platoons worth of ammo, heavy armor etc., then that practice will continue. If professional (or at least matching our understanding of such) soldiering is rewarded, it´s highly probable you will see more of that.

Looking forward to the next session and impact of the new house damage rules BTW

[FMDeCorba]

Horrible disfigurement and internal bleedings rule.
Pussy rules! I will refrain from making the obvious joke.

[theDevil]

having it all in one place: intrigue, "bitch-slapping", harsh words and even harder comebacks... and seriousness.

as i already pointed out, or maybe i just thought it out loud, it is a game, only a game and nothing but the greatest game...

seriously i can probarbly loose a few pieces, but as the character in the shitty movie Aliens VS Predator said "it is like a condom, its better to have one and dont need it, then to need it and dont have it". (Which by the way is my second most favorite comments of the movie as my favorite is "this is like finding Pharaos dvd collection")

as i said i can probarbly loose a few, and as i have read on the HQ reply, probarbly will. But plz stop the bashing of john woo`s hard work DeCorba, seriously (wink wink) what have he ever done you? (i am looking away from the fact that he directed MI:2, ofcourse, or maybe it is just because of this hehe)

in rl i would think we all (the players i play with at least) would have had trouble carying the packs and guns that we carry ingame.

personally i was stumped trying to "log" a backpack, ca30kg of weight, trough this swamp...with around 39degrees celsius(that is about 103 degres fahrenheit for you guys over the pond), to say i was sweating is an understatement... made me think though... ...then i forgot...



i can surely go for ag/2 rule no problem.

note to self: do not get killed next session...

hehe... tok me awhile, but suddenly i understood that bloody joke (pun intended)...

[pmulcahy11b]

Ahh, that picture brings back memories, Devil...large swaths of both Ft Benning and Ft Stewart look like that. At Benning, they even have a "Swamp Obstacle Course" and it's just what it sounds like!

[headquarters]

I just remembered The Boondock Saints - a movie about some guys shooting alot of people - there is this one guy with a custom vest that holds about 10guns or so .In addition he could also carry 2 more in thigh holsters ,a few in his coat pockets etc .

As long as you ar enot fussy about loosing guns,getting an occtional extra hp due to blunt trauma from said guns and -of course - willing to truly play out the many drawbacks with carrying so much gear you are good to go .Imagine how long it takes to get ready in the morning ,and if you have to go the toilet ..you better start early so that all the buckles and velcro dont make you a little too late if you know what I mean ..

It is a game as you say ,but I considered so : of all the unimportant things ,the game is the most important

Originally Posted by theDevil

having it all in one place: intrigue, "bitch-slapping", harsh words and even harder comebacks... and seriousness.

as i already pointed out, or maybe i just thought it out loud, it is a game, only a game and nothing but the greatest game...

seriously i can probarbly loose a few pieces, but as the character in the shitty movie Aliens VS Predator said "it is like a condom, its better to have one and dont need it, then to need it and dont have it". (Which by the way is my second most favorite comments of the movie as my favorite is "this is like finding Pharaos dvd collection")

as i said i can probarbly loose a few, and as i have read on the HQ reply, probarbly will. But plz stop the bashing of john woo`s hard work DeCorba, seriously (wink wink) what have he ever done you? (i am looking away from the fact that he directed MI:2, ofcourse, or maybe it is just because of this hehe)

in rl i would think we all (the players i play with at least) would have had trouble carying the packs and guns that we carry ingame.

personally i was stumped trying to "log" a backpack, ca30kg of weight, trough this swamp...with around 39degrees celsius(that is about 103 degres fahrenheit for you guys over the pond), to say i was sweating is an understatement... made me think though... ...then i forgot...



i can surely go for ag/2 rule no problem.

note to self: do not get killed next session...

hehe... tok me awhile, but suddenly i understood that bloody joke (pun intended)...

[jester]

Well your PCs can end up like the guy in the 80s classic,

"I'm gonna git you sucka!"

Where the guy loads up with all manner of weapons and then walks out and steps on a loose shotgun shell and goes down,

"Bang! BOMM POP! POW! CRACK! ZING" and the arseanal he loaded up goes off for several minutes.


As for me if I were playing me as who I am now, not as a burnt out infantry type, but a fat civilian slob with a medical skill plus some law enforcement background, first I'd expect to ride rather than walk otherwise watch my kit get ALOT lighter.

But, a carbine of some form would be the order of the day, with half a dozen or so magazines.

1 pistol on the thigh of my primary gun hand. full sized like a glock 17

1 pistol in a behind the back waistband holster glock 19

Another one in the medic case glock 19

As for a foot slogging rifleman, a glock 19 class or even a makarov would be nice to have but not essential.

It all depends on the mission and the character of course.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Ahh, that picture brings back memories, Devil...large swaths of both Ft Benning and Ft Stewart look like that. At Benning, they even have a "Swamp Obstacle Course" and it's just what it sounds like!

Piffle!
I've been through Canungra and survived...
I've also been married to a redhead. Not sure which was tougher.... :S

[jester]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Piffle!
I've been through Canungra and survived...
I've also been married to a redhead. Not sure which was tougher.... :S

Pauls terrain looked mighty flat, and thus not that challenging really


As for a redhead, they do have tempers but that also equates to something else as well at the oposite end of the spectrum

[Targan]

Originally Posted by headquarters

I just remembered The Boondock Saints - a movie about some guys shooting alot of people - there is this one guy with a custom vest that holds about 10guns or so .In addition he could also carry 2 more in thigh holsters ,a few in his coat pockets etc.

That was a great scene. The character with all the handguns was played by Billy Connolly. Willem Dafoe played the flamingly queer detective. I loved that film.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Originally Posted by jester

Well your PCs can end up like the guy in the 80s classic,

"I'm gonna git you sucka!"

Where the guy loads up with all manner of weapons and then walks out and steps on a loose shotgun shell and goes down,

"Bang! BOMM POP! POW! CRACK! ZING" and the arseanal he loaded up goes off for several minutes.

I'd just thought of using that as an example! Glad I'm not the only one who remembers the risks of over golding!

Regarding what you mentioned about the carbine, Ruger do a couple of carbines (PC-9 possibly?) that use the same mags as some of their pistols. Available in 9mm and .40 iirc, use the pistol mags with capacity in the region of 15 rounds, plus I think you can get extended 30 round mags. Always thought this might be handy in Twilight, but can't remember much about the weapons - think they might be on Paul's website though.

[jester]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

I'd just thought of using that as an example! Glad I'm not the only one who remembers the risks of over golding!

Regarding what you mentioned about the carbine, Ruger do a couple of carbines (PC-9 possibly?) that use the same mags as some of their pistols. Available in 9mm and .40 iirc, use the pistol mags with capacity in the region of 15 rounds, plus I think you can get extended 30 round mags. Always thought this might be handy in Twilight, but can't remember much about the weapons - think they might be on Paul's website though.

Yo yo yo nottin wrong wit being OG! G!


As for the Ruger, I kinda remember something like that, but I remember Marlins Camp Carbine more. It came in 2 calibers, the 9mm and the .45 ACP, the 9mm used Smith and Wesson double stack magazines which come in 10 to 30 round capacities. The .45 used 1911 magazines and those can be had in 30 round capacities as well, although the 20 rounders are more commonly available. And I did use one as a NPCs weapon in my South Western Campaign that was short lived back in 04.

[General Pain]

Originally Posted by FMDeCorba

Thank you!
I am not in favour of swamping the game with various penalty tables based on number of weapons, skillets or ghettoblasters carried on person or levels of discomfort etc.(this, by the way shouldn´t be determined by a base score IMO, it´s uncomfortable wearing many metal objects whether you are very agile or not), or reducing the game exclusively to a question of "realism".
However, the overall determining factor of player behaviour in this respect is incentive . If it generally pays (XP-wise or character survivability)to carry a platoons worth of ammo, heavy armor etc., then that practice will continue. If professional (or at least matching our understanding of such) soldiering is rewarded, it´s highly probable you will see more of that.

Looking forward to the next session and impact of the new house damage rules BTW

You would to carry loads of weapons,ammo and general distrust in heavy batlle armor if you played General Pain...take it from me...I know....My wall of assasin attempts in the Library Tower is now 2 located on 2 floors.

Ass for the ass "comment" it was a really funny SHITuation...it still makes me chuckle....just like the time Steinkopf (god rest his soul) was beeing executed for treason in HQs WW2 campagin , he survived the first shot(s) and asked for the priest ,the priest came and he headbutts the priest whereupon the soldiers start firing again not stopping before their clips ran out.

[FMDeCorba]

Originally Posted by General Pain

You would to carry loads of weapons,ammo and general distrust in heavy batlle armor if you played General Pain...take it from me...I know....My wall of assasin attempts in the Library Tower is now 2 located on 2 floors.
Ass for the ass "comment" it was a really funny SHITuation...it still makes me chuckle....just like the time Steinkopf (god rest his soul) was beeing executed for treason in HQs WW2 campagin , he survived the first shot(s) and asked for the priest ,the priest came and he headbutts the priest whereupon the soldiers start firing again not stopping before their clips ran out.

Yes I probably would do like General Pain if I was General Pain, thankfully, I´m not. Only a comic-book character like that would think it was really funny with some other characters ass-gun, and at the same time completely forget that he had one jammed up there himself throughout that session

[headquarters]

last FtF a player had something like 1 AK,1 Bizon SMG,2 pc. of 10 gage sawed off shotguns,1 .666 custom made Desert Eagle,and one antimaterial rifle in addition to body armour and ammo.(No names mentioned of course ).

Considering this over the top in all ways, I let the player skip a round now and then as his character got tangled in various straps and gun butts engulfing him .

For the munchkin who does not seem to grasp the nuances here I believe ingame penalties such as these can have educational effect .

Anyways - good session though .

[TiggerCCW UK]

I once had a player try to convince me that he could conceal a gimpy by tucking it down his trouser leg! I also played in a Cthulhu game where a player wanted to mount a .30 Browning M1919 mg on the roof of a model t ford for cultist hunting.....

[jester]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

I once had a player try to convince me that he could conceal a gimpy by tucking it down his trouser leg! I also played in a Cthulhu game where a player wanted to mount a .30 Browning M1919 mg on the roof of a model t ford for cultist hunting.....

The gimpy, was it down his leg while he was laying down in a bed with a blanket over him? Or was it just a simple trenchcoat?


As for the model T and a 1919, that sounds utterly plausible!

[Targan]

Originally Posted by jester

As for the model T and a 1919, that sounds utterly plausible!

Yeah, I've played a bit of 1920s-1930s CoC and I wish I'd thought of that! Sounds cool.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Originally Posted by jester

The gimpy, was it down his leg while he was laying down in a bed with a blanket over him? Or was it just a simple trenchcoat?


As for the model T and a 1919, that sounds utterly plausible!

Sadly nothing that sensible. It was to be tucked down a trouser leg while he walked through a check point. Even Rolf Harris wouldn't have got away with that as Jake The Peg!

I just mentioned Rolf Harris on a T2K board - not something you do every day?

One of the many issues I had with the MG armed Model T was that he wanted to mount it on the sun roof. I don't think he was very familiar with cars of the 1920's!

[jester]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

Sadly nothing that sensible. It was to be tucked down a trouser leg while he walked through a check point. Even Rolf Harris wouldn't have got away with that as Jake The Peg!

I just mentioned Rolf Harris on a T2K board - not something you do every day?

One of the many issues I had with the MG armed Model T was that he wanted to mount it on the sun roof. I don't think he was very familiar with cars of the 1920's!

Gimpy;

So the character was what? 7 foot four? And had arms and legs as thick as logs? <again if it were a duster or trenchcoat it could be done for short time with little scrutiny, although personaly I'd got with an M60E3 shorter and slimmer or a SAW idealy! I could pull it off with a SAW with a standard barrel, no drum of course!

As for the sunroof! I am sure they had them. Of course it would have been a custom job done by the local mechanic, or heck a modern mechanic would do it. If he were a mechanic with a SOUL he would cry as he defiled the anvcient vehidle though. Personaly, I'd mount a brace with the pintel mount since no one knows how old, well kept or the condition of the nearly 100 year old steel fared.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Sorry, should have clarified, it was a '20's CoC game, with a new build Model T. As I said, I don't think the player really got the grasp of the 1920's!