OT- Vietnam era question

[weswood]

I finally got motivated to build a diorama, or at least start, and I'm not sure of a detail I'd like to put in.

Basic concept is a 4 man LRRP getting split crossing a trail. One guy on one side and the other three on the other side. Along the trail is a group of Vietcong.

I'd like to have one of the VC leading a donkey loaded with goods, but did the VC use donkeys?

[Matt Wiser]

Charlie used whatever animals they could get, but more likely they'd be using a bicycle laden with supplies. Those didn't get tired, didn't need their own feed, and you didn't have the problems with an ornery critter. (Seems like in every John Wayne Western, he had trouble with ornery mules, horses, etc...)

[pmulcahy11b]

I don't know if there were/are donkeys in Vietnam, but if you really want to be realistic and can model it, give the VC a really loaded-down bicycle.

[kcdusk]

I dont know what a "diorama" is. Meh, i'll google it at work tomorrow.

I cant believe people are stereotyping the VC as having over loaded bicycles. They operated in the jungle for peats sake. :-)

I say use "encumbered children". Come to think of it, that might be closer to the truth, and in any case it may add to the problem you face in this encounter ...

Bottom line, i often play out small little scenarios on my own like the one you describe, and i'm happy to have found a thread to contribute to. Its been a while.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

Charlie used whatever animals they could get, but more likely they'd be using a bicycle laden with supplies. Those didn't get tired, didn't need their own feed, and you didn't have the problems with an ornery critter. (Seems like in every John Wayne Western, he had trouble with ornery mules, horses, etc...)

If the bicycle breaks down, you have a pile of metal.

If the donkey breaks down, you have dinner.

[jester]

Use a waterbuffalo or even an elephant, they use those on occassion.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by kcdusk

I cant believe people are stereotyping the VC as having over loaded bicycles. They operated in the jungle for peats sake. :-)

I know it sounds crazy KC but the VC really did use large numbers of bicycles to move huge amounts of weapons, ammo and other supplies all over Vietnam and across the border into Laos and Cambodia along the Ho Chi Minh Trail. They didn't usually ride the bicycles, they walked them with their cargoes tied and slung all over them.

[weswood]

I actually have a VC figure pushing a bicycle. I'm just having some probs lining up the handlebars with the hands. It's been years since I've built a model and I'm out of practice.

KC, a diorama is a scene with several figures and/or vehicles, depicting a story, such as you'd see in a museum.

[Marc]

Well, I have not a photo of a mule in the Ho Chi Minh route… But I have a photo of Ho Chi Minh with his mule.



Well, the note below the photograph was “Ho Chi Minh saddles a mule. Ho Chi Minh prepares a mission against the French, 1945�. For my part, the only mules I know are the mechanical ones.

[Legbreaker]

North Vietnamese or VC using bicycles.
Note the handlbar and seat extensions.

[weswood]

I like those handlebar extensions. That may be just what the doctor ordered!

[Graebarde]

Can't recall seeing any donkies, but shit load of buffs, and up in the hook area there were elephants, though I don't ever recall hearing any stories of Mr Charles using them for transport. Though I do recall stories of the damn things busting an ambush position.

Bicycles, with the extensions, would be the way, or even two men with pole and large bundle on trail. AND it does NOT have to be all men, as women were rather common amoungst them too.

Grae

[weswood]

Originally Posted by Graebarde

Can't recall seeing any donkies, but shit load of buffs, and up in the hook area there were elephants, though I don't ever recall hearing any stories of Mr Charles using them for transport. Though I do recall stories of the damn things busting an ambush position.

Bicycles, with the extensions, would be the way, or even two men with pole and large bundle on trail. AND it does NOT have to be all men, as women were rather common amoungst them too.

Grae

The model I have is a VC chick pushing a bicycle.

My father did 2 or 3 tours with 101st AB as a Platoon Sgt. He was running a patrol one time, he was in the middle of the platoon with the radio man. It was either thick jungle or elephant grass (I don't remember the details) when Pop hears the point man just let loose with his M16, then comes running back down the trail. Seconds later, the next man lets loose with his M16 and comes running back down the trail. Pop is curious as hell by now, so he goes up the trail...and comes face to face with an elephant. Pop ran back to the radioman and called in a fire mission.

[Matt Wiser]

The VC and NVA in Cambodia and some parts of Laos did use elephants as pack animals; I've read of pilots being called in, and these are fast-movers, mind you, to hit such elephants by airborne FACs. There was also a story of an elephant that was following a LRRP Team for several days, and then it charged. One of the guys did get stomped (broken back and clavicle) and the patrol leader had to call in a Dustoff....

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

There was also a story of an elephant that was following a LRRP Team for several days, and then it charged. One of the guys did get stomped (broken back and clavicle) and the patrol leader had to call in a Dustoff....

I think that incident is described in a book I once read about the SOG forces in the Vietnam War. I may be mistaken though.

[Raellus]

I've read so many books about Vietnam LRRPs, SOG, SEALS, and Marine Recon that I get the stories mixed up sometimes but I remember one about a recon team being charged by an elephant. They used an M79 blooper to fend it off. It took a 40mm HE round (can't remember if it detonated or not; it may have been so close that the grenade didn't arm) and took off back into the jungle.

I'll have to skim through my collection and find that story. I'm sure I got the gist of it right but I'm probably missing some important detail or another.

In that same collection, I've also read about a couple of tiger encounters. I guess that's why they call it the jungle, baby!

Hey, can any of our Australian contingent here recommend a good first hand account of ASAS ops in Nam? I have an Osprey book on their unis, gear, weapons, and such but I'd love to read some eyewitness stuff.

[Legbreaker]

The movie, "The Odd Angry Shot" is worth a look if you can find it. Really shows Australian soliders at their best.

"The Team in Vietnam ....The Lighter Side" by Vic Pennington is a damn fine read. Details many, many (mostly extremely humorous) incidents over the course of a decade + members of the Australian Army Training Team Vietnam (AATTV or The Team) experienced while serving throughout the country.

As for books on SAS operations in Vietnam - good luck with that. Unlike many nations, the SAS takes security seriously, even 30+ years later! There are certainly a few about though, but don't expect a lot of detail about events.