Better living through chemistry

[General Pain]

Anyone developed rules for battle stimulants?

- stimulants etc etc

I read somewhere that the US army was conducting experiments on soldiers in the gulf, where the soldiers were given a pill that made them unable to sleep for long periods of time with no sideeffects, reducing the amount of soldiers needed etc....

[Webstral]

Given the Army's nearly pathological hatred of sleep, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that they are ready to believe a pill to prevent sleeping that has no side effects could exist. I'm sure the contractor is Halliburton & Tooth Fairy, Ltd.


Webstral

[Targan]

When I converted Cyberpunk 2020 to Gunmaster I had to do a full conversion of the drugs rules (a major part of Cyberpunk). It was very easy therefore to use that conversion as the basis for my Gunmaster:2000 drugs rules.

Major Po has a wide variety of pharmaceutical and illicit drugs. He uses them for a variety of purposes (including interrogation/torture, personal and group recreation, warding off the need to sleep on difficult missions etc).

[General Pain]

I was looking for a decent list of sorts

(chekc out the big book of psyonics here: http://thebigbookofwar.50megs.com/DOX/0-House%20rules/)

name,type,bonus,penalty,cost-merc,cost-t2k,production

example
amphetamine,stimulant,+1-+3(con),-1--3(ag/cha/int),x$,x$,small chem lab

notes on how clean the drug is also welcome

something like this,but more t2k-merc.....

http://www.pillreports.com/

[MW Turnage]

The USAF has been was using combinations of the insomnia hypnotics (like Ambien, etc) and amphetamines extensively for awhile in both Iraq and Afghanistan. There's been no small amount of controversy about this; while official policy is that usage is voluntary...well, I think we all know how that would work in practice. There's also been some questioning of its impact in several of the notorious friendly fire incidents. There's been some controversy about that too with several doctors from the services and VA saying there's been official pressure against studies of long-term affects on decision-making.

How to put all this into game terms is a good question. My gut instinct is to let one dosage eliminate all fatigue accumulated over a 48 hour period if followed by an 8-hour period of sleep. I'd consider instituting a general 1-2 point penalty (depending on whether or not you're using d10 or d20) for continued use of more than a week or more.

[Targan]

If you have access to the Cyberpunk 2020 rules it has some stuff for the use of drugs.

[Legbreaker]

http://www.phoenixcommand.com/Toxins.htm
That could be useful too. Focuses mainly on toxins, but there's a list of drugs towards the end with the various effects listed.

[jester]

Back in the 80s and early 90s I had a common drug avialable. It was nothing more than some number and letters and a slang name even. I had several NPCs addicted to it.

It was highly addictive but it also increased a soldiers ability to withstand pain, fatigue, and made them able to accomblish near impossible physical tasks, and of course they never tired under its effects.

Of course as I said, the down side was it was highly addictive, and after a while troops taking it ended up with a phsycosis, as well as acute paranoia, agression and rage.

Needless to say, this was found often in elite high speed units and some officers more so than regular units. And command turned a blind eye to its use since it enhanced preformance. In some cases it was made easily available in some areas although not officialy issued mind you, but its use nor its presence discouraged.

[kcdusk]

Someone help me out ... what were the Somalians on in Black Hawk Down? It seemed to do the trick re being battle ready. And if a 3rd world place like Somalia can get hold of it or even make it themselves, it should be readily available T2K wise.

Or, salt tablets (or vitamen C or B). Just have a Doctor type tell the PCs or NPCs the tablet is an advanced form of battle field multiplyer and "trick" the PCs/NPCs into believing the tablets have an effect. And see if they behave any differently.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by kcdusk

Someone help me out ... what were the Somalians on in Black Hawk Down?

Khat, the narcotic leaves and twigs of the miraa tree.

[kcdusk]

Even simple things like alcohol, flyspray, petrol ...
anything that affects the brain.

[Rupert Willies]

Once during the late 90s I met an English gentleman who was a DJ in Ibiza. He was visiting a friend in Norway, and hadn't really given the drug laws here much thought; He hadn't slept in nearly 6 months, constantly fuelling up with more (meth-)amphetamines, extacy and cocain. When he realized that he couldn't get the drugs he needed to keep him going, he nearly went into a schizophrenic fit on the spot. I met him through my brother, who was dealing drugs at the time.
In the end he managed to get hold of enough speed to get him to the airport and back to Ibiza, where he presumably partied on..

[Marc]

Originally Posted by kcdusk

Even simple things like alcohol, flyspray, petrol ...
anything that affects the brain.

Or antifreeze, like (at least) the soviets during WWII.

[Graebarde]

caffeen and sugar anyone? take the instant coffee packet (or two or three) and one or more sugar packets. pop'em dry..

and 40 years ago there were little white pills dispensed for certain individuals on certain operations on a regular basis.

[Targan]

I found my cyberpunk drugs conversion doc. I could post it if anyone is interested. Its for Gunmaster though so it would require further conversion for use with any of the T2K rules.

[jester]

Originally Posted by Graebarde

caffeen and sugar anyone? take the instant coffee packet (or two or three) and one or more sugar packets. pop'em dry..

and 40 years ago there were little white pills dispensed for certain individuals on certain operations on a regular basis.

I have used that trick as well. Even better, the new MRE <well new in the late 80s and early 90s> came in a foil lined package. We'd just bite them and suck on the instant coffee, then put the foil and bite down on a tooth with a filling, ah yeah, nothing like that metal on a filling taste/feel to wake you up.

[Mohoender]

Chemistry has not only been used by modern army but it might have been the oldest way to try enhance fighting capacity. At Kolwezy in 1966, when the Kantangan mutinied, they were so drugged that they wouldn't feel wounds and it was fairly hard to stop them. On the down side, however, they were fighting like fools and they were more easy to shoot.

One could even say that these people eating the brain and heart of the ones they killed were also doing something similar.

Elsewhere, I think that several population around the world have done the same, using some kind of drugs to enhance fighting spirit. Even gangs may be doing so (not sure about that one).

[jester]

Ancienat Azetc and Toltecs and others used cocoa <not in the form we know today> and chewed on coca leaves both stimulants.

Arabs did the hashish and we now have modern term Asassin

Morrows in the Philipines had their stuff,

Tribes in Somalia had Kaht.

Germans issues amphetamines <as do we calling them "Go Pills.">

Germans pioneered phsycotrophic drugs.

US and British experimented with halucinegens.

The Royal Navy issued so much beer and rum and such most of its sailors could probably classify as drunk by todays standards. And liquor was a normal ration in fighting mens ration until fairly recently.

It is documented that in WWII in the Pacific, Korea and Vietnam many attacking troops were on opium, and I would venture to guess that is the case in A-stan as well.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by jester

And liquor was a normal ration in fighting mens ration until fairly recently.

Ah how I remember Anzac day and it's traditions so fondly!

I was picked as a Cenotaph Guard each year I was in the army which is a huge honour (and a pain in the arse for all the polishing and drill practise you've got to do).
We'd be woken up at around 4am by the Warrant Officer (aka Sergeant Major) with a coffee heavily laced with rum. An hour later we'd be on duty for the dawn service which usually only lasted about 20 minutes
From there it was off to secure our weapons and then across the road to the pub for a few drinks, then, up to the RSL (Returned Services League) club for breakfast at 8am, followed by more drinking.
By 10am we hadn't spent a cent but weren't exactly sober... (old soldiers tend to have deep pockets on Anzac day).

Back on guard for the 11am service which was invariably held in blazing sunshine on the blackest of bitumen - not necessarily a problem until you realise that our cerimonial dress was a woollen kilt with about five layers - designed more for the cool Scottish highlands rather than the Australian summer...

An hour of sweating all the alcohol consumed eariler in the morning out of our bodies and FINALLY we could relax. Off to the RSL club once more for lunch followed by an afternoon of drinking and playing "two-up" (gambling by throwing two coins into the air and betting on the result - illegal on any other day), so by the time we headed back to the barracks late in the afternoon we'd a) performed a valuable and honourable duty as cenotaph guard, b) gotten royally drunk without spending a cents and c) fended off countless female hands seeking to find out what's really worn under a kilt

I LOVE ANZAC DAY!

[jester]

Ah the traditions of the military. Some of them were really cool! And fun and strangly those traditions are the ones that are the fuzziest in our memories. Ah like the first week of November and then the dinner and ball. Swinging from the rafters a sword fight and the champagne flowed <we weren't drinking it we were shooting one another with the corks>

Damn, I need to reinlist

[General Pain]

Originally Posted by Targan

I found my cyberpunk drugs conversion doc. I could post it if anyone is interested. Its for Gunmaster though so it would require further conversion for use with any of the T2K rules.

go ahead and post it T.

[General Pain]

Originally Posted by jester

Ancienat Azetc and Toltecs and others used cocoa <not in the form we know today> and chewed on coca leaves both stimulants.

Arabs did the hashish and we now have modern term Asassin

Morrows in the Philipines had their stuff,

Tribes in Somalia had Kaht.

Germans issues amphetamines <as do we calling them "Go Pills.">

Germans pioneered phsycotrophic drugs.

US and British experimented with halucinegens.

The Royal Navy issued so much beer and rum and such most of its sailors could probably classify as drunk by todays standards. And liquor was a normal ration in fighting mens ration until fairly recently.

It is documented that in WWII in the Pacific, Korea and Vietnam many attacking troops were on opium, and I would venture to guess that is the case in A-stan as well.

Don't forget the Vikings -
they used to eat red-fly mushroom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_muscaria)
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybe

[Targan]

... as requested by General Pain