Dust off your books, Russia's going full-USSR rewind.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I wasn't aware until recently, but they've pretty much bullied the former USSR republics back in to line. Lithuania, Latvia, Belarus...of course Georgia and now Ukraine are about to feel the deep tissue massage of an ill-made yet entirely effective Soviet* hobnail on their necks.

...


*=like all things Russian it's surplus they've kept in storage for just such an occasion. Please to be ignoring hammer-and-sickle logo on sole, Tovarisch.

[stormlion1]

The Russians have that going for them, they have tons of equipment stocked away for a rainy day. It might be covered in packing grease or rust considering who stockpiled it away, but they got it. It just takes so much extra vodka to convince the troops to clean the rust up though.
I remember reading a report years back about a warehouse full of artillery pieces from the Second World War that had been in storage in the nowheresville of Siberia. I wonder how much there really is.

[Schone23666]

Now, feel the BOOT-HEEL OF MOTHER RUSSIA! MUWAHAHAHHAHA!

But in all seriousness...well, seems Russia's heading back to the old days once again. Not that this is surprising or anything.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

The Russians have that going for them, they have tons of equipment stocked away for a rainy day. It might be covered in packing grease or rust considering who stockpiled it away, but they got it. It just takes so much extra vodka to convince the troops to clean the rust up though.
I remember reading a report years back about a warehouse full of artillery pieces from the Second World War that had been in storage in the nowheresville of Siberia. I wonder how much there really is.

I've heard likewise about aircraft going all the way back to the MiG-15. Who knows.

Of course, one might argue that by the time they're reduced to flying MiG-15s it "won't matter" but if everything else on either side is atritted, then a MiG-15 is as good as an F22 as far as having something in the air goes.

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

...Of course, one might argue that by the time they're reduced to flying MiG-15s it "won't matter" but if everything else on either side is atritted, then a MiG-15 is as good as an F22 as far as having something in the air goes.

If the MiG has vacuum-tube technology that's survived numerous EMP-blasts, it's probably better than the F-22.

[stormlion1]

Comes down to how there stored. Russians are good for storing some gear but I've seen pictures of an airplane storage yard and it was covered in weeds higher than the planes were and a Tank Storage Depot where the paint had come off from the weather. Maybe there salvageable? I don't know. But they still have crates full of boots, uniforms, rifles, submachine guns, landmines, and other assorted weapons and stocks that will probably last forever. The question is will they need it? The Russian Military isn't the sad excuse it was a few years back. Putin if nothing else put them back on there feet and gave them there pride again.

[pmulcahy11b]

We (Meaning the US) can't intervene in Ukraine. That would put us head-to-head with the Russians, and that is fraught with danger that could conceivably lead down the path to WWIII. Real-life T2K scenario, anyone?

What we need to do is let our NATO allies deal with it. They do have the troops and firepower, as much as they would like everyone to believe they don't. It's time for the Europeans to stop being pussies.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

We (Meaning the US) can't intervene in Ukraine. That would put us head-to-head with the Russians, and that is fraught with danger that could conceivably lead down the path to WWIII. Real-life T2K scenario, anyone?

What we need to do is let our NATO allies deal with it. They do have the troops and firepower, as much as they would like everyone to believe they don't. It's time for the Europeans to stop being pussies.

But which NATO allies? Which ones have the kind of heavy armoured formations that would be required to stop Russia right on Russia's doorstep? Germany? Imagine that. Talk about letting the genie out of the bottle. I guess what I'm saying is, putting militaries like Germany's head-to-head with the Russians comes with some pretty serious historical baggage too.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Overheard late last night at the passport check at an airport in Eastern Europe...

Name?
-Matvey Romanovich Naumov.
Nationality?
-Russian.
Occupation?
-No no, we're just visiting.

[stormlion1]

I don't even think the US has tanks in Germany anymore. They were pulled out last year in April. So if it did come down to Armor Formations it will be the Germans and the French gear that would be the first to arrive and be used. Maybe followed up by what we have in the Middle East and the Brits sending gear through the Chunnel. It can handle armor on flatcars right?

[raketenjagdpanzer]

This is what we've waited for,
this is it boys, this is war,
the President is on the line -

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

I don't even think the US has tanks in Germany anymore. They were pulled out last year in April. So if it did come down to Armor Formations it will be the Germans and the French gear that would be the first to arrive and be used. Maybe followed up by what we have in the Middle East and the Brits sending gear through the Chunnel. It can handle armor on flatcars right?

We moved our heavy armor to Poland when we relocated our commands there, I thought. Or were they all just brought home?

Anyway, it's irrelevant. Russia is going to curbstomp Ukraine, the end.

[stormlion1]

The tanks that were in Germany got moved to South Carolina. If we have armor in Poland I would be surprised, mostly because I don't think we have any bases there. And yes, the Ruskies are back and the Ukraine is going get its ass handed to it.

[mikeo80]

So, is it time to raise the drawbridge, unleash the moat monsters, and put the archers on the wall?

My $0.02

Mike

[Raellus]

A 99 Luftballons reference? Nice, although I prefer it in its original German.

[Raellus]

Not only am I dusting off the old books, I picked this new one up prior to the Sochi Olympics.

http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Securi...ces+since+1991

At that time, I didn't quite foresee the current situation in the Ukraine.

[Cdnwolf]

The Ukrainian Armed Forces still have some firepower...

Ukrainian Ground Forces is located in Ukraine

Land Forces Command Western Operational Command, (former Soviet Carpathian Military District)

Southern Operational Command, Odessa (former Soviet Odessa Military District)

Territorial Directorate "North", Chernihiv

79th Airmobile Brigade
19th Rocket Brigade

6th Army Corps, Dnipropetrovsk (Units based in the area of the Southern Operational Command)

17th Tank Brigade, Kryvyi Rih
25th Airborne Brigade, Cherkaske
28th Guards Mechanised Brigade, Chornomorske
92nd Guards Mechanised Brigade, Chuhuiv
93rd Guards Mechanised Brigade, Cherkaske
55th Artillery Brigade
Corps Units

8th Army Corps, Zhytomyr (Units based in the area of the Territorial Directorate "North")

1st Tank Brigade, Honcharivske
30th Mechanized Brigade, Novohrad-Volynskyi
72nd Mechanized Brigade, Bila Tserkva
95th Airmobile Brigade, Zhytomyr
26th Artillery Brigade, Berdychiv
3rd Army Aviation Regiment, Brody
Corps Units

13th Army Corps, Rivne (former Soviet 13th Army) (Units based in the area of the Western Operational Command)

24th Mechanized Brigade, Yavoriv
51st Mechanized Brigade, Volodymyr-Volynskyi
128th Guards Mechanized Brigade, Mukacheve
11th Artillery Brigade, Ternopil
7th Army Aviation Regiment, Novyi Kalyniv

Military University, Lviv
Hetman Petro Sahaidachny Land Forces Academy
Military Academy, Odessa

57,000 Personnel (+ 6,100 in air-mobile forces)
686 Tanks (+ 41 in Navy)
2,065 (+ 310 in air-mobile forces and 160 in Navy) Armoured Combat Vehicles
72 Combat Helicopters
716 (+ 47 in Navy) Artillery Systems

[pmulcahy11b]

Just some clarity I left out inadvertently: The pussies I'm referring to is NOT the European troops. They are rock hard. The pussies I refer to is the various European governments.

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Raellus

A 99 Luftballons reference? Nice, although I prefer it in its original German.

Sorry, I do not follow you, Raellus. 99 Luftballons?

As far as the Ukraine, It is going pretty much as we said it will. Every one is pointing at Mr. Putin and saying, "You are a VERY BAD BOY." And in reality, there is not a whole heck of a lot that anyone can do about the Crimea. I hope to HELL that the Prez is not contemplating "boots on the ground". That would cause so many problems, many of which we have stated here and in other posts. Especially since the first "boots" would be the troops here at Fort Bragg.

My $0.02

Mike

[kato13]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

Sorry, I do not follow you, Raellus. 99 Luftballons?

refers to this post

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

This is what we've waited for,
this is it boys, this is war,
the President is on the line -

99 Luftballons

Pretty much the anthem of the cold war. At least in the 80s.

English


German


In addition to being a great song I learned that the German phrase for "Captain Kirk" is "Captain Kirk"

[Targan]

I can't imagine Putin to be a passionate, volatile sort of personality. I think he's probably more the very controlled, ruthless type. Just imagine the confidence that Putin and his allies and his military commanders must have, to have calculated that even if they go in hard, flooding Crimea with troops, encircling Ukranian military bases and just annexing the whole damn thing, nobody's going to do a thing about it. Even the Ukrainian military, I mean what can they do? The Russians have absolutely supreme air superiority, they already have the entire Black Sea Fleet right there, the Russian Army is pouring in at the moment. It's done. A fait accompli. An absolute masterclass in realpolitik.

[Rapparee]

The Ukrainians called up their reserves right? Wonder how many they can actually arm.

Feel bad for the remnants of their military still trapped on the Crimea. There was a contingent of Ukrainian marines stuck there at least and they'd refused demands to disarm. Theres some tense stand-offs between Russian forces and holdouts.

[Olefin]

going to be a very interesting war - mainly because the Ukraine, if it really gets down and dirty, has the ultimate dirty bomb as I have stated before - and I really dont think that Putin wants to see eastern Russia and Belorussia basically get depopulated

hmm now where did I put that book about the mad Russian general in Lvov and his SCUD?

[Raellus]

The news has been saying that the images of Russian troops we keep seeing are from the Russian Black Sea bases. Does this mean that they're Naval Infantry? I haven't noticed any distinctive blue and white striped undershirts (also worn by Russian paratroopers and some special forces) and all the photos I've seen show sanitized uniforms with no visible insignia of any kind so I have no way of figuring it out.

Crimea is Russia's for the taking. Short of comprehensive economic sanctions, freezing of Russian assets abroad, and a full embargo on Russian goods, there's really nothing the rest of the world can do to stop them. I don't see this happening.

As for the rest of Ukraine, I don't think the Russians are going to invade and I doubt we'll see full-scale war. I can see, however, a brief Russian invasion/occupation of East Ukraine so that that territory can be used as a bargaining chip to win annexation of Crimea (i.e. we'll pull out of E.K. if you recognize our annexation of Crimea). If would also afford the Russians an opportunity to whittle down the Ukrainian military a bit. That said, I don't think Putin will go that far. Still, I don't see NATO or anyone else doing anything militarily to stop him. The only way this is going to turn into a proto-WWIII is if a full NATO member like Poland or the Baltic states is attacked and Putin would be mad to do that. I think he's far too canny for that sort of brinksmanship.

[stormlion1]

The troops were seeing have every insignia removed from those uniforms and even have there faces covered in most pics I've seen. Makes them look like mooks from a video game. I'm guessing this is to keep people guessing who they are or what units there from so as far as anyone can tell there Russian Specops or Naval Infantry or even troops pulled from boot camp.
Interesting thing is reports of four Russian Warships demanding two Ukrainian Warships stand down and be boarded. There keeping them bottled up in harbor.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by WallShadow

If the MiG has vacuum-tube technology that's survived numerous EMP-blasts, it's probably better than the F-22.

Heck, given the right circumstances, the F-22 might lose to the MiG-15 in a dogfight.

Chuck

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Nowhere Man 1966

Heck, given the right circumstances, the F-22 might lose to the MiG-15 in a dogfight.

Given the right circumstances an F-22 could be taken down by a goose.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by Targan

Given the right circumstances an F-22 could be taken down by a goose.

LOL!!! Yeah, it can happen.

Chuck

[Trooper]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

I'm guessing this is to keep people guessing who they are or what units there from so as far as anyone can tell there Russian Specops or Naval Infantry or even troops pulled from boot camp.

Russian VDV?

Crimea Invaded By High Readiness Forces Of The Russian Federation
Teksti: Arto Pulkki | Kuvat: Getty Images / EPA / Landov

According to Suomen Sotilas (Soldier of Finland) magazine's expert, the Crimean invasion was carried out by high readiness forces of the Russian Federation. The Russian media reported that the forces displaying no national or other insignia were pro-Russian volunteer militias defending Crimean autonomy.

During last weekend Western media was speculating to whom the troops actually belong.

Suomen Sotilas magazine's Arto Pulkki analyzed pictures taken from the so called volunteer militias.


Unknown soldiers - upper picture.

- New EMR camouflage combat uniforms used only by Russian Federation forces

- New 6sh112 tactical vest used only by Russian Federation forces

- New 6B27 composite helmet used only by Russian Federation forces

- New 7,62 mm PKP machine guns used only by Russian Federation forces

- Russian 5,45 mm AK74M assault rifles


As a conclusion it is evident that the troops in question are high readiness troops of the Russian Federation.

Unknonw soldiers - lower picture.

- 6B26 composite helmets used only by airborne troops of the Russian Federation

- Russian 5,45 mm AK74M assault rifles

Soldier on the left:

- New EMR-camouflage combat uniform used only by Russian Federation forces

- 6SH92-5 tactical vest used only by airborne troops of the Russian Federation

Soldier on the right:

- Russian special forces and mountain troops Gorka-3 combat uniform used only by Russian Federation forces

- Russian special forces Smersh AK/VOG tactical vest used only by Russian Federation forces

With a 99 % probability we argue that these troops are the 45th Guards Separate Reconnaissance Regiment of VDV (Russian: 45-й гвардейский отдельный разведывательный ордена Александра Невского полк ВДВ), Kubinka, Moscow.

http://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artik...ian-federation

[Panther Al]

For what its worth, we already are technically (The US that is) required by treaty to send in troops in support of the Ukraine.

Back when the old USSR broke up, they wound up with a lot of Nukes: In exchange for giving them up, we, along with 6 others - including Russia - agreed that should *anybodies* armed forces move in, the countries that signed on would come in and put a stop to it with all the force required.