RL .243

[kcdusk]

My brother in law is a gun nut. Went down the range at Christmas time and his hunting rifle is a .243 (goat, rabbit, fox, deer).

I was shooing a basic .22 at 50 meters and then 100 meters. At 100 meters, it took me 6 shots to figure out i was falling a bit short. Adjusted, and then hit a twirler (about the same size as the bottom of a coke can) 4 out of 5 times.

Anyway. The .243 shot at the twirler which is 8mm steel. And punched right through it from 100m. So although only a .22 or close to it, this thing would put a person down in real life, yes? And a car door would not be something to hide behind!

[Sanjuro]

The .243 round is not only slightly larger calibre than the .22, but a considerably longer bullet with a hugely more powerful propellant. Compare the Wikipedia pages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.243_Winchester
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle

In muzzle energy terms, .243 delivers between 8 and 20 times the energy; the bullet is more aerodynamic so more stable at increased ranges, with a flatter trajectory. That doesn't mean the .22LR cannot be lethal- in fact it can kill at far longer distances than it is accurate- but it cannot be relied on.

[unkated]

The .243 was developed as a necked down .308 cartridge. So it's has quite a punch. Its bullet obver the years (since the original 1955) has become heavier (5.5 gm to 10+), balanced by slightly lower muzzle velocity.

Plugging its values (including those for a Ruger American in .243) into the T2K formula, it's seems comparable to a 5.56 NATO round.

I'd say the lighter rounds would be morelikely to wound than kill; the heavier end more likely to kill.

A simple way of looking at it is if it can bring down a medium sized deer, it will work on a man.

Uncle Ted

[unkated]

Originally Posted by unkated

The .243 was developed as a necked down .308 cartridge. So it's has quite a punch. Its bullet obver the years (since the original 1955) has become heavier (5.5 gm to 10+), balanced by slightly lower muzzle velocity.

Minor correction; the bullet weight doe snot vary quite that much:

55 grains to 105 grains (3.56 gm to 6.8gm). The lighter end are "good for varmints" - groundhog, rabbits, etc; the heavier ones for deer.

As a T2K weapon (first decimal added to show differences)

Ruger American Rifle (.243 Win) - 2.84 Kg (6.25 lbs) Bulk 5 Mag 4 internal
.243 Win (75gr/4.5 gm): Dmg: 2.8 Pen: 2-4-6 Rcl: SS: 5.4 Rng: 45
.243 Win (105gr/6.8 gm): Dmg: 2.7 Pen: 2-4-6 Rcl: SS: 5.2 Rng: 45
in either case, played as
.243 Win: Dmg: 3 Pen: 2-4-6 Rcl: SS: 5 Rng: 45

[pmulcahy11b]

I've long been thinking about treating the .243 (along with the .270) as a magnum for range, but the bullets are so light, I can't see any extreme or long-range accuracy -- the bullets would get blown around fairly easily.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by unkated

A simple way of looking at it is if it can bring down a medium sized deer, it will work on a man.

Quite so.

[jester]

Rule 1. Don't use high power rifle rounds on .22 twirler targets....it ruins them as you learned.

As the others have said, a .22 is a low velocity round, as are most straight walled cases.

A .243 is a pointed projectile, necked cartridge. So they do tend to have much greater chamber pressures and velocities.

[Brother in Arms]

of course it would kill a man. its more powerful than 5.56x45mm

[pmulcahy11b]

Going back to the original topic:

Should I give the .243 and .270 extra range?

[Brother in Arms]

Paul

what range do you have them at right now?

.270 should be comparable in range to 30-06 since it has flatter trajectory than .30 caliber.

As for .243 is based on the .308 case but has smaller bullet so it shoots flatter also at longer range.

I guess it depends on what "magnum" range is.....they shoot 5.56 (77 grain bullets) at Camp Perry 1000 yards

[swaghauler]

Both are very flat shooters. The .270 should also have a slight power bump. I used a combination of energy stats and ballistics tests to modify my damages. For instance, the 5.45B does the same amount of damage as the 5.56N in my game. The 5.45B uses a 60 grain bullet to the M855's 62 grain bullet. Therefore, I reduced the 5.56N to a DAM of 2 and made the 5.56N round's PEN 1/2 at Short Range (as penetration is a hallmark of SS109 rounds). I leave the 5.45mm Block's PEN alone as this round has a "void space" near the base of the bullet that collapses to induce tumbling. I give the 77 grain SMK 5.56mm Nato and the MK318 frangible loads the 3 DAM and normal Penetration ratings. I made the 7.62mm X 39mm a DAM of 3 and 7.62mmN a Dam of 5. The .30-.30 is a ballistic cousin to the 7.62mm X 39mm so it's Dam and range is identical. The .270 should be a Dam of 4 and have a penetration like the 7.62mmN. It would have a range bonus because it "shoots flatter" than the 7.62mmN. I'm not familiar enough with the .243 to give any input on that round right now. I'll see what my "shooting Circle" has to say.

[Brother in Arms]

just found this on .243



http://www.snipercentral.com/243-winchester-6-16x51mm/

[Brother in Arms]

apparently there aren't that many good bullet for long range shooting in the .277 diameter. Most people don't shoot them greater distances than 500 yards. But I don't see why you couldn't. I think because of its fame as a hunting cartridge it has never got much attention for long range target shooting.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Brother in Arms

apparently there aren't that many good bullet for long range shooting in the .277 diameter. Most people don't shoot them greater distances than 500 yards. But I don't see why you couldn't. I think because of its fame as a hunting cartridge it has never got much attention for long range target shooting.

A great many of those bullets are designed to fragment at the higher velocities needed for very long range shooting. This is due to it being primarily a hunting cartridge. If you compare it to the 7.62mm Nato round at identical ranges, the .270 will generally have a flatter trajectory. This flatter trajectory is also the reason that the 270 isn't used at longer ranges. To get the .270 out there would require a heavier [bullet] loading to prevent deflection. This would eliminate its flatter trajectory and make it little better than the .308/7.62N.

[swaghauler]

This does point out a "shortcoming" in the weapons rules. How do you take into account a round like the .270 (the 5.7mm also comes to mind). These rounds are VERY accurate within a LIMITED RANGE BAND. After leaving this range band their accuracy drops off RADICALLY. Another round that follows this pattern would be the .458 SOCCOM round. How do you showcase their accuracy within their range band but demonstrate their limited range in game?

[jester]

If I recall correctly, isn't the 270 a necked down 30-06? So the same damage as a 30-06 sounds about right.

[Brother in Arms]

.270 is a .30-06 catridge case necked own to .277

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Brother in Arms

.270 is a .30-06 catridge case necked own to .277

Shotgun News used to have ads for a .270 barrel for the M1 Garand.

[jester]

Those barrels can still be found. I have toyed with the idea of doing a build with .270.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Brother in Arms

Paul

what range do you have them at right now?

.270 should be comparable in range to 30-06 since it has flatter trajectory than .30 caliber.

As for .243 is based on the .308 case but has smaller bullet so it shoots flatter also at longer range.

I guess it depends on what "magnum" range is.....they shoot 5.56 (77 grain bullets) at Camp Perry 1000 yards

I have them at standard range by FFS. Magnum range is x1.2 (that's MY fudge, not GDWs).