if you could have any vehicle

[unkated]

I have also always liked the Hetzer. Something... compactly competent about it.

Hetzers were built Post WW2 by Czechoslovakia and sold to Austria as the G-13, which fielded them to the early 1970s. Some could be unearthed in a warehouse and revived in 1996/7 as reserves for the Austrian Army...

Uncle Ted

[LT. Ox]

Originally Posted by unkated

I have also always liked the Hetzer. Something... compactly competent about it.

Hetzers were built Post WW2 by Czechoslovakia and sold to Austria as the G-13, which fielded them to the early 1970s. Some could be unearthed in a warehouse and revived in 1996/7 as reserves for the Austrian Army...

Uncle Ted

What weapons system would that have? Same as developed or would I look else where for change info?

[Legbreaker]

The Swiss also bought 158 of them which served into the 1970's, renaming them as the G-13 (any designated G-13 definitely served with the Swiss).
The Soviets regunned them with their 76.2mm but otherwise kept them basically the same.
The Czechs converted some of theirs by replacing the gun with a flame thrower, although Hitler had ordered this conversion in November 1944 so it's unknown if the Czechs did it themselves, or just picked up a few which had already been done.
From what I can see though, it doesn't look like too many other alterations were made to the armament.
There is no indication I can find of Austria having any after the war (I suspect unkated confused them with Switzerland).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetzer
http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Hetzers_G13.pdf

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Hey Leg, don't forget the British A39 Tortoise heavy assault tank - it only weighed 79ton... only!


I too am a fan for the Hetzer, like unkated mentioned, there seems to be something about it. Competent is a good word, it's no too fussy in its design, uncluttered and still compact. Unsurprisingly it was a very good ambush weapon even though the troops didn't particularly like it - too cramped.

Hey unkated, did you mean Switzerland instead of Austria?
LT. Ox, the G13 was armed with a 75mm KwK 40 main gun, the same gun as mounted on the Panzer IV late model G and H & J models as well as on the StuG III F & G models and the StuG IV. AKA the 7.5cm KwK 40. The Swiss also removed the remote MG installation from the roof and placed the commander opposite to the German Hetzer (i.e. Swiss placed commander on the left, gunner & loader on the right). The Swiss also had a field telephone installed on the rear for external comms.
They got 158 G13 assault guns as well as some recovery vehicle models.
They also modernized some of the assault guns to G13D standard which included replacing the petrol engine with a diesel model.

However the interesting item is that the Czechoslovaks fielded a large number under the designation ST-I. They were either repaired or new build Hetzers and carried the original 7.5cm KwK39 main gun or were unarmed and used as training vehicles (called the ST-III). Some of the ST-IIIs had a superstructure built on while others retained the basic lines of the Hetzer. They built/rebuilt 50 to the ST-III spec for a total of 299 vehicles (249 ST-I & 50 ST-III). The Czechoslovaks used them till the mid 1950s and not much is known about them afterwards although they are believed to have been scrapped.
For game purposes however, there's no reason why they couldn't have kept them in their war reserve.

Apparently Israel was interested in buying 60 or 70 ST-I vehicles but they were too pricey, about twice the price of a Sherman tank, so they never bothered and got Shermans instead.

Crappy photo but the only one I could find...
ST-III


Although this drawing makes it clearer. ST-III


What's intriguing though, is that apparently the Czechoslovaks exported eleven ST-I vehicles & spares to Guinea, West Africa between 1959 & 1961.

The other interesting thing about the Hetzer, it formed the basis for for the WW2 Germans' first purpose made, fully tracked, APC, the Vollkettenaufklarer 38(t) "Kätzchen" AKA full-tracked reconnaissance vehicle 38(t) "Kitten". It would carry up to 8 troops and act in a similar role as the White Scout Car (or in modern terms, an M3 Bradley CFV without the 25mm and TOW).

Kätzchen wooden mock-up showing general height.

One of the working prototypes


As it probably would have looked in service

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Well it looks like I dawdled too long getting my reply posted!
Beaten to the punch by Legbreaker - curse you!

[Legbreaker]

I may have beaten you to the punch, but yours has more info - you missed the flame throwers though!

[unkated]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

The Swiss also bought 158 of them which served into the 1970's, renaming them as the G-13 (any designated G-13 definitely served with the Swiss).
The Soviets regunned them with their 76.2mm but otherwise kept them basically the same.

Swiss (yes, I misremembered it; not Austrian; I got enthused by the Austrian 2001 Sourcebook posted in this forum) G-13s were armed with StuK 40, which is the German 7.5cm KwK40 Tank gun in a slightly different mount (same gun as that Panther discovered earlier this year).

As a T2K vehicle, it would be something like this: (hmmm should be attached)

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by unkated

Swiss (yes, I misremembered it; not Austrian; I got enthused by the Austrian 2001 Sourcebook posted in this forum) G-13s were armed with StuK 40, which is the German 7.5cm KwK40 Tank gun in a slightly different mount (same gun as that Panther discovered earlier this year).

As a T2K vehicle, it would be something like this: (hmmm should be attached)

That machinegun can be fired from under cover via a periscope and swivels 360 degrees. A smart commander doesn't let the gun go empty and clips a fresh belt onto the first before it runs out. This way the commander does not expose himself to enemy fire.

[ArmySGT.]

Anyone doing a WW2 campaign with T2k rulesets?

Twilight1939 or Twilight1941?

[unkated]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

The other interesting thing about the Hetzer, it formed the basis for for the WW2 Germans' first purpose made, fully tracked, APC, the Vollkettenaufklarer 38(t) "Kätzchen" AKA full-tracked reconnaissance vehicle 38(t) "Kitten". It would carry up to 8 troops and act in a similar role as the White Scout Car (or in modern terms, an M3 Bradley CFV without the 25mm and TOW).

To be fair, the Hetzer was derived itself from the Czech Pz-38t (t = Tzech in German), developed just before Czechoslovakia was overrun and dismembered by Germany (with help from Hungary and Russia). The Germans used the Pzr 38 light tank early in the war (better armor and weapons than a Panzer 2), and kept the chassis in production and development through the war - the factories were churning them out and they worked fine.

In addition to the Hetzer, the chassis carried SP AA guns, SP artillery and SPAT (some versions of Marder). Katzchen was another derivation.

Uncle Ted

[unkated]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Anyone doing a WW2 campaign with T2k rulesets?

Twilight1939 or Twilight1941?

There was someone related to the Yahoo T2K group that was doing a Pacific WW2 campaign a while ago. I remember reading an AAR. You could probably find a link to the person there.

Uncle Ted

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by unkated

To be fair, the Hetzer was derived itself from the Czech Pz-38t (t = Tzech in German), developed just before Czechoslovakia was overrun and dismembered by Germany (with help from Hungary and Russia). The Germans used the Pzr 38 light tank early in the war (better armor and weapons than a Panzer 2), and kept the chassis in production and development through the war - the factories were churning them out and they worked fine.

In addition to the Hetzer, the chassis carried SP AA guns, SP artillery and SPAT (some versions of Marder). Katzchen was another derivation.

Uncle Ted

Very similar story for the earlier LT vz35 AKA Pzr 35(t) although it never had the conversion desirability that the LT vz38 had. I reckon the Germans were probably put off by the pneumatic drive system and the engine heat getting into the crew compartment and figured it wasn't worth converting it further?
Interestingly, a British company was looking for a production licence for the vz35 just before the Germans began their occupation of Czechoslovakia. Another interesting point, there was also a variant built for Afghanistan.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Anyone doing a WW2 campaign with T2k rulesets?

Twilight1939 or Twilight1941?

I posted on my PDF page a PDF of a now-defunct site someone did on WWII (and the Arab-Israeli Wars) in T2K v1 rules.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I posted on my PDF page a PDF of a now-defunct site someone did on WWII (and the Arab-Israeli Wars) in T2K v1 rules.

Could you tell me what the name of the pdf is please Paul? I had a quick look but couldn't see anything that specifically stated WW2 or Arab-Israeli Wars.

[ArmySGT.]

What are the pertinent rules and formulas for building the stats for various vehicles for the V1 and 2.2 systems any way? As much as people come over here asking for stats on weapons and vehicles seems like some tutorials are I order.

[unkated]

Weapons rules are the most straight froward; the formulas used are presented in the V2 Infantry Weapons Guide, spread out across two pages.

The key values you need are

Bullet weight
Receiver type (Single shot, Bolt action, lever action, pump action, semi auto, full auto, Single action revolver, double action revolver)
Weapon weight
Weapon length
Muzzle velocity
Rate of fire (for automatic weapons)

Uncle Ted

[.45cultist]

Fire, Fusion,& Steel for Traveller the New Era has them as well.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

Could you tell me what the name of the pdf is please Paul? I had a quick look but couldn't see anything that specifically stated WW2 or Arab-Israeli Wars.

It doesn't seem I ever actually uploaded it. Damn. Give me until the morning.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

It doesn't seem I ever actually uploaded it. Damn. Give me until the morning.

no problem Paul, I didn't know anyone had done something on the Arab-Israeli wars so while I'm naturally curious to see the doc, it doesn't have to be "right now!"

[LT. Ox]

It is in his nature.

[unkated]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

Fire, Fusion,& Steel for Traveller the New Era has them as well.

Fire Fusion & Steel has slightly different stats. Any weapon I tried to match in FFS using real world values is either 30-50% heavier (if matching capability) or is underpowered (if matching physical size, weight of weapon & projectile).

Uncle Ted

[Sanjuro]

I always liked the Universal Carrier, aka the Bren Gun Carrier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Carrier
There are many more practical vehicles, I know...

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

no problem Paul, I didn't know anyone had done something on the Arab-Israeli wars so while I'm naturally curious to see the doc, it doesn't have to be "right now!"

OK, it's up; but worse; I discovered that I never uploaded my last update at all!

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

OK, it's up; but worse; I discovered that I never uploaded my last update at all!

I thought it had been a while - that's what brought me back here actually, looking to see if you were still in the land of the living!

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Hey Paul, my apologies for being the bearer of bad news, but the link for the WW2 pdf is not working

[unkated]

SPA-Viberti AS.42 Sahariana

WW2 Italian reconnaisaance car, rather like an oversized dune buggy. Used the same chassis as the AB 41 armoured car, including its four-wheel steering, specifically for desert operations, primarily in a reconnaissance role.



Fast, long-ranged, maneuverable, armed with MGs and/or 20mm autocannon, or even a 47mm cannon.

The Sahariana engine located in the rear which gave it enough space in the middle of the hull to accommodate up to five fully equipped men and weapons, though the mission crew seldom exceeded three or four. The open compartment's only overhead protection was a waterproof canvas sheet. The AS 42 had front and rear internal fuel tanks of 200 litres each with an additional 24 externally mounted jerrycans holding 80 litres of water and 400 litres of fuel.

The AS 42 Sahariana's performance was very good, but it was expensive to manufacture and the vehicle was mechanically complicated.

Seats 4-5. On of the best high-mobility vehicles produced before the HumVee. And I love the big tires.

Uncle Ted