Assistant Kits. Suggestions please

[Matt W]

It occurs to me that we don't see the "other half" of those teams who operate some of the heavier weapons

For example, it is possible for an individual PC to be issued something like the MAG-58 machine gun with 3 belts of ammo. NOBODY in the real world sends this guy out on his own. Someone should be with this guy and carrying another 4 or 5 belts of ammo, a couple of spare barrels and the tripod.

What would you put in the "assistant LMG gunner kit"?

Similarly,real-world marksmen/snipers rarely work alone. There's usually a second person, a "spotter", with spare ammo, starlight scope and a laser range finder. Their job is to support and protect the sniper

What would you put in a "spotter" kit ?

What would you put in something like the "assistant missile operator kit"? OR "assistant rocket launcher operator kit"?

I'm trying to decide between 2 options

1. an Individual Basic Load for these kits (like the already-existing Doctor's Assistant issue). To include weapons
2. A literal "kit bag" that anyone can pick up and use if, for example, the sniper needs support.

Opinions and suggestions are welcomed

[dragoon500ly]

As far as the heavy weapons go, I'd go with a support bag that any team member could grab, as needed. For the machine gun, I can see a packboard/hard frame holding 6-8 cans of ammo, a spare barrel in its bag, and a spare parts bag. The tripod would be in its own bag, available to be carried by anyone.

If you go with a Dragon, the reloads would simply be carried by other team members

The sniper/spotter would have to be a dedicated pairing, with both being proficient on the sniper rifle.

Just some random thoughts...

[nuke11]

I've never run across an LMG Gunner Support Kit. The SAW/LMG gunner usually carries all of the stuff they need to keep the LMG going. The spare barrel, extra ammunition, small spare parts kit, cleaning kit. They have to carry all of that over top of their normal issue equipment.

There is an MMG Support Kit that the is carried between the gunner and assistant. There would be a spare barrel, possibly 2 carried (heat resistant mites and pad), spare parts kit, cleaning kit, extra ammunition. There is also a sustained fire kit which can also be carried, which is the tripod and gunner sight as well as the rest of the kit carried, this would be used in a defensive position or a sustained fire position only. They have to carry all of this over and above their regular kit. The assistant would also carry their personal weapon (most often a rifle of some kind), the MMG gunner, the MMG is there's.

There is an HMG Kit as well, this again is usually a 3 person team, gunner assistant #1 and #2. There is a spare barrel, tripod, extra ammunition, spare parts kit. This would rarely be employed in the ground role, but could be if needed.

Spare parts kit; normally are an extra bolt, extractor, springs, firing pin, gas plug, trigger, screws, pins, extra blade sights, this sort of thing. The kits would include anything that could break out in the field that could prevent the weapon the functioning, since they would not have access to an gunsmith during combat.

Cleaning kit; pipe cleaners, tools needed to disassemble, clearing plug, lubricant, cleaning tools (scrapers for bore, gas plug that sort of thing), 3 or 4 piece rods, bore brushes, cleaning patches (lots of these), if the weapon requires the setting of head spacing and timing, there are tools for that (usually the older M2HB without a modernization kit).

[Craig67]

Originally Posted by Matt W

It occurs to me that we don't see the "other half" of those teams who operate some of the heavier weapons

For example, it is possible for an individual PC to be issued something like the MAG-58 machine gun with 3 belts of ammo. NOBODY in the real world sends this guy out on his own. Someone should be with this guy and carrying another 4 or 5 belts of ammo, a couple of spare barrels and the tripod.

What would you put in the "assistant LMG gunner kit"?

A MAG-58 really needs an assistant gunner or a #2 (#1 being the gunner). However a Stoner Mk 23 gunner would not, his weapon is a personal weapon not a crew served weapon. The same applies to Dragon, M 202 and the Stinger basic loads, these need an assistant gunner to help out with the donkey work of hauling the ammo but also to assist in reloading and to provide local defense to the gunner.

Similarly,real-world marksmen/snipers rarely work alone. There's usually a second person, a "spotter", with spare ammo, starlight scope and a laser range finder. Their job is to support and protect the sniper

Snipers work in 2 man teams but marksmen not necessarily. Soviet doctrine was to issue the SVD to a man who would work alone in the context of an infantry platoon. Myself, I see basic load #3 (M 21 rifle) as a marksman's load, not a snipers load. I doubt the Project would have the time to train snipers and spotters.

Craig

[Craig67]

Individual Basic Load #8A ( 29.81 kg )

1 Stoner M22 Rifle and 12 mags
1 HP-35 and 3 mags
1 M122 tripod ( 7.3 kg )
1 MAG-58 spare barrel ( 3.05 kg )
3 MAG-58 belts (300 rds )

Its a heavy load and it only adds another 300 rds of ammo for the MAG gunner. For 4th edition users there is a more modern and lighter tripod.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

As far as the heavy weapons go, I'd go with a support bag that any team member could grab, as needed. For the machine gun, I can see a packboard/hard frame holding 6-8 cans of ammo, a spare barrel in its bag, and a spare parts bag. The tripod would be in its own bag, available to be carried by anyone.

If you go with a Dragon, the reloads would simply be carried by other team members

The sniper/spotter would have to be a dedicated pairing, with both being proficient on the sniper rifle.

Just some random thoughts...

This, the Team training means anyone can be the assistant.

[dragoon500ly]

I've always been told/read that sniper teams are both qualified as snipers and that the pair will switch duties throughout their mission. It's for this reason that I restrict sniper teams to the MARS teams, Recons get a standard rifle with scope and someone trained as a marksman.

[rcaf_777]

Speaking as guy who been the Number One and Number Two on the FN MAG-58

Both person carry a lot of extra gear and ammo

Here what I remember

Light Role

Tool Roll
Spare Parts Kit
Spare Barrel
Spare Barrel Bag

FN MAG Sustained Fire Kit

Tripod
Tripod Locking Nut(Keeps the weapon secured to the tripod)
Spare Barrel
Optical Sight
Aiming Stakes
Aiming Night Vision Globes
Aiming Sight
Sustained Fire Kit Bag
Plus all the items in the light roll

[bobcat]

for small team a such as the ubiquitous Morrow Project Recon Team GPMGs would typically be kept on the vehicle or, if dismounting a GPMG, the ammo would be distributed across the whole team often carried on top of buttpacks or rucks. so whoever is stuck carrying the thing can just grab a belt off of whoever is in front of them should they need to reload. while i have yet to find a convenient way to use straps to hold that ammo securely yet accessibly i am young enough to have been able to snag a 200 round saw pouch to carry my share of that load.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by bobcat

for small team a such as the ubiquitous Morrow Project Recon Team GPMGs would typically be kept on the vehicle or, if dismounting a GPMG, the ammo would be distributed across the whole team often carried on top of buttpacks or rucks. so whoever is stuck carrying the thing can just grab a belt off of whoever is in front of them should they need to reload. while i have yet to find a convenient way to use straps to hold that ammo securely yet accessibly i am young enough to have been able to snag a 200 round saw pouch to carry my share of that load.

sounds good but you still have a spare barrel, cleaning kit and tool roll to carry too.

I am also this thinking you will need a dismount kit for the a GPMG. Since it is vehicle mounted it would have a butt stock or Bi-pod attached.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

sounds good but you still have a spare barrel, cleaning kit and tool roll to carry too.

I am also this thinking you will need a dismount kit for the a GPMG. Since it is vehicle mounted it would have a butt stock or Bi-pod attached.

Amen to that! One thing that I always hated about the M-1 was the loader's M-240 was that it was a straight C model, you were told that if the tank had to abandoned, you took the weapon as a dismount,no sights, no stock, no butt, wire charging handle AND only a half pistol.grip.....right, that will work! Pity the poor grunt who turned his back on his rifle!

And the funny thing was that there were conversion kits to turn it into a G model, just couldn't issue it to the crews, because (drum roll) it was mission essential that you had a spare in case the coax packs it in.

Now I trained on the M-219, and I can see the logic in having a spare coax (or 5-6!). But the M240 was always a reliable platform and I cannot remember ever having a jam on a properly maintained one.

So, in my games, the teams always have the M240G configuration...Now, if only DOD can be convinced of the wisdom of that...

[bobcat]

mounted on a pintle you'd have it configured as a ground weapon anyway, i have never encountered this tool roll of which you speak on this side of the arms room door, and the spare barrel and cleaning kit would be part of the gunners primary load just like with the saw or stoner. sure it sucks to be the guy stuck carrying it but when you only have room for 6 guys in your V you don't exactly have the luxury of a dedicated A-gunner.

now if you have a bigger force say a MARS team or something you might have enough people to actually have A gunners. i have never run a game where my teams would even see a Morrow element like that however.

[rcaf_777]

Ask you shall receive, one picture of a tool roll

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Matt W

I'm trying to decide between 2 options

1. an Individual Basic Load for these kits (like the already-existing Doctor's Assistant issue). To include weapons
2. A literal "kit bag" that anyone can pick up and use if, for example, the sniper needs support.

Opinions and suggestions are welcomed

I would think that the "Assistant's kit" would be an addition to all the general equipment and ammunition assigned to the Team. If a player takes the GPMG load out, an "A gunner" kit is included in the initial team load out without being specific to a PC or NPC.

[ArmySGT.]

NBC Reconnaisance kit......

Geiger counter
Chemical alarm
Confined spaces low O2/methane alarm
M256 NBC kit
x2 OD tyvek oversuits
cooling vest with pump and 2 gallon reservoir
battery driven forced air canister system
M8 paper x3 rolls
NBC flagging kit