The Best That Never Was 2 (Prototypes)

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Not sure where this came from? not sure if it is movie prop or something the the US Army was testing.

Are those AGM-114 Hellfire or AGM-65 Maverick missiles?

ArmySGT's right. There is no CLU (command/launch guidance unit) in the system, and firing the missiles from that truck would blow ALL of the windows out. I'd say it's photoshopped too.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Not sure where this came from? not sure if it is movie prop or something the the US Army was testing.

Are those AGM-114 Hellfire or AGM-65 Maverick missiles?

Hellfire: The Swedes use a ground mount version of it for various things.

[The Dark]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Hellfire: The Swedes use a ground mount version of it for various things.

Primarily an anti-ship missile, as the RBS 17. It's a modified (by Bofors) AGM-114A. The intent was to use them against landing craft to allow longer-ranged weapons to focus on other ships. The warhead was modified for this role, detonating after penetration of the hull, so it wouldn't be as effective in an anti-vehicular role. Norway had some as well (I don't know if they still do).

[lordroel]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Hellfire: The Swedes use a ground mount version of it for various things.

How is it targeted.

[The Dark]

Originally Posted by lordroel

How is it targeted.

Laser designation. Except for the Longbow variant (AGM-114L, which is radar-guided), all Hellfires are laser-guided. The designator does not have to be at the same location as the launcher; as long as the missile can see the dot, it'll go for it. This also gives it limited re-targeting capability, since if the dot is moved to a different target within the field of view, the missile will steer accordingly.

[Damocles]

My guess is that the pic is 9th ID HTLD. They were doing a lot of stuff with CUCVs in the mid-80s as they waited to receive HMMWVs. They had a ground launched hellfire unit. The unit expected to receive UAVs, so they used surrogate manned aircraft, which likely included laser designation capability. They also had forward lasing teams to designate targets.

The 22 meg file in the second link is worth a read. There's a terrible pic at the back that looks like a CUCV firing a Hellfire to me...

https://books.google.pl/books?id=zi3...vision&f=false

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=get...fier=ADA370233

[lordroel]

Originally Posted by The Dark

Laser designation. Except for the Longbow variant (AGM-114L, which is radar-guided), all Hellfires are laser-guided. The designator does not have to be at the same location as the launcher; as long as the missile can see the dot, it'll go for it. This also gives it limited re-targeting capability, since if the dot is moved to a different target within the field of view, the missile will steer accordingly.

So could one designator be use to home in more than one missile into a target at once.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by The Dark

Laser designation. Except for the Longbow variant (AGM-114L, which is radar-guided), all Hellfires are laser-guided. The designator does not have to be at the same location as the launcher; as long as the missile can see the dot, it'll go for it. This also gives it limited re-targeting capability, since if the dot is moved to a different target within the field of view, the missile will steer accordingly.

They never thought of making a GPS-guided version?

EDIT: Just remembered that GPS guidance doesn't work well against moving targets.

[The Dark]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

They never thought of making a GPS-guided version?

EDIT: Just remembered that GPS guidance doesn't work well against moving targets.

That, and Hellfire only has a 5 mile range. It's less than 2 seconds from weapon release to maximum range, so you're talking about potentially very short lasing times. The shortest-ranged weapon I can think of with GPS guidance is the AGM-176 Griffin, which has ~12-15 miles of range when air-launched.

[pmulcahy11b]

A lot of these limited issue/experimental light vehicles could be placed in in the 9th LMD, which would still have its experimental mission by the early 1990s.

Light armor could be placed into the 82nd and light infantry units, and rumors like the Rangers having about a platoon worth of Wiesels fior testing and a single Stryker for testing could be included, along with SOCOM-type HUMWWVs and Ninja Jeeps.

[Draq]

Paul has the Colt cmg 2 listed in the 'best that never was' weapons list, but what about the cmg 3? https://youtu.be/g3aayF-S2ps

[Draq]

Oh also about the em-2 in .280... https://youtu.be/_wdhN5_RpX4

[Draq]

A preview for future videos including the 308 Sterling rifle, and the 280 fal
https://youtu.be/O5vLAY2k9dc

[pmulcahy11b]

I have the Enfield on the Best Assault Rifles that Never Were pages, and the .280 FAL in the FAL entry as an experimental "what if."

[Draq]

Ok so here's one of the fraken-guns... An sks-gatling gun. https://youtu.be/MH2xsQcIUYI

[Draq]

Actual firing and disassembly of the .280 em-2.
https://youtu.be/fcYj2SpUHvE
https://youtu.be/m-grTPqgETk

[Draq]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I have the Enfield on the Best Assault Rifles that Never Were pages, and the .280 FAL in the FAL entry as an experimental "what if."

There's very little you don't have good sir, I'm mearly providing more information for interested individuals.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Draq

Ok so here's one of the fraken-guns... An sks-gatling gun. https://youtu.be/MH2xsQcIUYI

OK, that's just plain weird...

[Draq]

Kinda like the short barreled belt fed shotgun thing?

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Draq

Kinda like the short barreled belt fed shotgun thing?

Tell me more!

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Draq

Paul has the Colt cmg 2 listed in the 'best that never was' weapons list, but what about the cmg 3? https://youtu.be/g3aayF-S2ps

Must...do...research...

[rcaf_777]

Colt made a few weapons like this

Colt CMG #3
Colt Auto Rilfe
Diemaco(Now Colt Canada) Light Support Weapon

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Tell me more!

[WallShadow]

ArmySGT, is that a country cousin/nephew of the Mk 18 Honeywell hand-cranked 40mm GL of the 'Nam era?

[Draq]

This doesn't exactly belong, but I figured you guys might be interested, and Paul might want to add it to his page.
https://youtu.be/iQxwVY7ziKs part 1
There are 5, each about an hour long, and pretty technical. It's the... 'reproduction/redesigned from the ground up/modernized' stg-44 with caliber interchangeability: 5.56,7.62x39,.300 blackout, and the original 8mm kurz

[The Dark]

Poking around on Paul's site (because what else am I going to do on a Thursday night? ), I noticed that the XM8 entry in Best Assault Rifles That Never Were has the Carbine, Compact Carbine, and Designated Marksman variants, but not the Automatic Rifle. That variant had a heavy 20" barrel and could use a 100-round drum magazine for sustained fire. It also had a bipod (per HK Systems, the 12.5" and 20" barrels had bayonet lugs and only the 20" barrels had a bipod interface). It appears to be a different 20" barrel than the DMAR, based on the venting at the end of the barrel.

HK Systems also listed a 10 round magazine that isn't in the BARTNW entry. That seems a bit small to me, but maybe there'd be a use for it that's not immediately obvious.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by WallShadow

ArmySGT, is that a country cousin/nephew of the Mk 18 Honeywell hand-cranked 40mm GL of the 'Nam era?

Sorry, just saw this today.

No, that Rube Goldberg contraption was followed by the XM174E3 a belt fed 40mm that uses the same ammunition as the M79/M203. The ammunition is loaded into 12 round belts. Then along came them MK19 another belt fed grenade launher also designated a grenade machine gun for its rate of fire. The MK19 uses ammunition with a longer ase and more propellant which would destroy a M79/M203 if a person were to attempt firing through them this high velocity 40mm.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Draq

Oh also about the em-2 in .280... https://youtu.be/_wdhN5_RpX4

That's as old as the 4.6MM G36 prototype!

[Draq]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Sorry, just saw this today.

No, that Rube Goldberg contraption was followed by the XM174E3 a belt fed 40mm that uses the same ammunition as the M79/M203. The ammunition is loaded into 12 round belts. Then along came them MK19 another belt fed grenade launher also designated a grenade machine gun for its rate of fire. The MK19 uses ammunition with a longer ase and more propellant which would destroy a M79/M203 if a person were to attempt firing through them this high velocity 40mm.

Attachment 3976

Attachment 3977

Attachment 3978

Attachment 3979

High velocity qnd low velocity 40mm grenade shells. An important distinction to make. It's much the same as .44 special/.38speciql vs their Magnum versions.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Draq

High velocity qnd low velocity 40mm grenade shells. An important distinction to make. It's much the same as .44 special/.38speciql vs their Magnum versions.

Fortunately revolvers have forcing cones and one is not able to load .44 magnum in a .44 special revolver, same as .357 into a .38. While the reverse is true for specials into magnums that is not true of the Mk19. That ammunition is arrives belted. Even loading a round only separates a link from the next without removing the link from the case unlike MGs or autocannon. One is not able to load regular 40mm for the M203/M320/M79 into a Mk19 and get same to fire.