Military Bases in SOCAL

[Enfield]

I was wondering about the likely fate of military bases in southern California that are more in the desert. Specifically I'm thinking of Twenty-Nine Palms and Fort Irwin. What is the likelihood that they would be maintained in 2000? Each has acted as vitally important training and support facilities for the USMC and the Army. I realize in Twilight canon most Marines are overseas in the Gulf or Korea and one division in Germany, but nevertheless there are a lot of USMC personnel who are not assigned to combat divisions, and the same goes for the Army.

[swaghauler]

If you look at where 29 Palms is in relation to Mexico, you will see that it is not even 100 miles north of the Mexican border by the Sonoran Desert. Any invasion of California MUST secure 29 Palms and even China Lake in order to prevent the US from taking the advancing Mexican Army in the flank. There are few roads out there and securing that area would block reinforcements from New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas. In summation, 29 Palms is either "disputed" or in Mexican hands based on whether you follow Cannon or not.

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

If you look at where 29 Palms is in relation to Mexico, you will see that it is not even 100 miles north of the Mexican border by the Sonoran Desert. Any invasion of California MUST secure 29 Palms and even China Lake in order to prevent the US from taking the advancing Mexican Army in the flank. There are few roads out there and securing that area would block reinforcements from New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas. In summation, 29 Palms is either "disputed" or in Mexican hands based on whether you follow Cannon or not.

Right but the only canon I have for Mexican Army orbats in that area is at Mojave, over an hour away, Escondido which is 2 hours away, and Ventura, 3 hours away. Are you offering that Twenty Nine Palms would have fallen already or do you think disputed is more likely?

[rcaf_777]

To name a few, I'm sure someone can post about their fate

Fort MacArthur
Naval Air Station Point Mugu
Naval Construction Battalion Center Port Hueneme
Marine Corps Air Station El Toro
Marine Corps Air Station Tustin
Los Angeles Air Force Base
Norton Air Force Base (In use till 1995)
United States Air Force Plant 42
Morris Reservoir Naval Weapons Test Site (in use till 1995)
Coast Guard Air Station Los Angeles
West Los Angeles VA Medical Center
Ground Equipment Facility J-31(FAA Radar Site)

[Olefin]

The only real canon disposition for the Mexican Army in California would be from City of Angels and the Mojave CA force you are talking about is Force Green that is Mojave CA and patrols from Mojave to Barstow to stop any advance into CA from NV

City of Angels is seen by many as apocrypha - however I have talked to Marc Miller about a rewrite and he said that he is not interested in rewriting it - i..e it would stand as canon

Challenge 27 gives the forces in CA as the following - and it was written by Frank Chadwick so I would give it pretty much the canon stamp

Ejercito de California (Southern California and Baja Califonia)

la Brigada: 1,100 men, 6 AFVs
2o Regimento Caballeria: 500 men, 2 AFV
Brigada La Paz: 600 men, 3 AFVs
Brigada Nogales: 600 men, 1 AFV
Brigada Hermosillo: 700 men, 4 AFVs
Regimento lnfanteria Activo Tijuana: 200 men

Marauders

Southern California
Brigada Tepic: 1000 men, 1 AFV (now broken up into
numerous small banderas)
Brigada Ensenada: 800 men (now broken up into numerous
small banderas)

I have looked at the forces in City of Angels and Challenge 27 and I would think that what City of Angels was trying to describe was the 1a Brigada spread out in CA north of LA but giving them Soviet instead of Mexican equipment -

Thus if the 1a Brigada is spread out from Ventura to Barstow I would think the most likely unit that would be at 29 Palms to be the 2o Regimento Caballeria: 500 men, 2 AFV as it would have been the unit supporting the initial invasion and probably was detailed along with other units to make sure that whatever Marines were still deployed there were engaged

They most likely were initially supported by the Mexicali Brigada and eventually Colima as well - but since those two units ended up in Arizona on the opposite side of the Mexican civil war there is every chance that they were driven into AZ by the 2nd Regiment after they had taken 29 Palms

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

To name a few, I'm sure someone can post about their fate

Fort MacArthur
Naval Air Station Point Mugu
Naval Construction Battalion Center Port Hueneme
Marine Corps Air Station El Toro
Marine Corps Air Station Tustin
Los Angeles Air Force Base
Norton Air Force Base (In use till 1995)
United States Air Force Plant 42
Morris Reservoir Naval Weapons Test Site (in use till 1995)
Coast Guard Air Station Los Angeles
West Los Angeles VA Medical Center
Ground Equipment Facility J-31(FAA Radar Site)

If you look at City of Angels and the description of the nuclear attack on LA you can see that many of those facilities were probably abandoned after the strikes on LA - and if the Mexican Army is at Ventura then Port Hueneme and Point Mugu are both now behind the Mexican lines. The El Segundo strike would have taken out the Los Angeles Air Force Base for sure - way too close

[Enfield]

Originally Posted by Olefin

The only real canon disposition for the Mexican Army in California would be from City of Angels and the Mojave CA force you are talking about is Force Green that is Mojave CA and patrols from Mojave to Barstow to stop any advance into CA from NV

City of Angels is seen by many as apocrypha - however I have talked to Marc Miller about a rewrite and he said that he is not interested in rewriting it - i..e it would stand as canon

Challenge 27 gives the forces in CA as the following - and it was written by Frank Chadwick so I would give it pretty much the canon stamp

Ejercito de California (Southern California and Baja Califonia)

la Brigada: 1,100 men, 6 AFVs
2o Regimento Caballeria: 500 men, 2 AFV
Brigada La Paz: 600 men, 3 AFVs
Brigada Nogales: 600 men, 1 AFV
Brigada Hermosillo: 700 men, 4 AFVs
Regimento lnfanteria Activo Tijuana: 200 men

Marauders

Southern California
Brigada Tepic: 1000 men, 1 AFV (now broken up into
numerous small banderas)
Brigada Ensenada: 800 men (now broken up into numerous
small banderas)

I have looked at the forces in City of Angels and Challenge 27 and I would think that what City of Angels was trying to describe was the 1a Brigada spread out in CA north of LA but giving them Soviet instead of Mexican equipment -

Thus if the 1a Brigada is spread out from Ventura to Barstow I would think the most likely unit that would be at 29 Palms to be the 2o Regimento Caballeria: 500 men, 2 AFV as it would have been the unit supporting the initial invasion and probably was detailed along with other units to make sure that whatever Marines were still deployed there were engaged

They most likely were initially supported by the Mexicali Brigada and eventually Colima as well - but since those two units ended up in Arizona on the opposite side of the Mexican civil war there is every chance that they were driven into AZ by the 2nd Regiment after they had taken 29 Palms

Thanks for posting this. So given what you are presenting, with nearly all combat infantry/armor Marines deployed as I mentioned, it would mostly be support units remaining, correct, with ANG forces being spread too thin to entirey defend the area?

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Enfield

Thanks for posting this. So given what you are presenting, with nearly all combat infantry/armor Marines deployed as I mentioned, it would mostly be support units remaining, correct, with ANG forces being spread too thin to entirey defend the area?

Do you mean during the initial invasion or in 2001? I would definitely say yes to the initial invasion - keep in mind that the only tank heavy unit there was - and that was an improvised unit equipped with whatever armor they could lay their hands on - was the 40th Mech that had been rebuilt and was in Oregon at the time of the invasion and out of position - otherwise all there were was in CA at the time was light infantry divisions (ex-training divisions with no armor and minimal artillery) and two military police units - not exactly the ideal units to stop an armored cavalry regiment and a mechanized infantry brigade supported by infantry brigades with mech/motorized elements

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Olefin

The only real canon disposition for the Mexican Army in California would be from City of Angels and the Mojave CA force you are talking about is Force Green that is Mojave CA and patrols from Mojave to Barstow to stop any advance into CA from NV

City of Angels is seen by many as apocrypha - however I have talked to Marc Miller about a rewrite and he said that he is not interested in rewriting it - i..e it would stand as canon

Challenge 27 gives the forces in CA as the following - and it was written by Frank Chadwick so I would give it pretty much the canon stamp

Ejercito de California (Southern California and Baja Califonia)

la Brigada: 1,100 men, 6 AFVs
2o Regimento Caballeria: 500 men, 2 AFV
Brigada La Paz: 600 men, 3 AFVs
Brigada Nogales: 600 men, 1 AFV
Brigada Hermosillo: 700 men, 4 AFVs
Regimento lnfanteria Activo Tijuana: 200 men

Marauders

Southern California
Brigada Tepic: 1000 men, 1 AFV (now broken up into
numerous small banderas)
Brigada Ensenada: 800 men (now broken up into numerous
small banderas)

I have looked at the forces in City of Angels and Challenge 27 and I would think that what City of Angels was trying to describe was the 1a Brigada spread out in CA north of LA but giving them Soviet instead of Mexican equipment -

Thus if the 1a Brigada is spread out from Ventura to Barstow I would think the most likely unit that would be at 29 Palms to be the 2o Regimento Caballeria: 500 men, 2 AFV as it would have been the unit supporting the initial invasion and probably was detailed along with other units to make sure that whatever Marines were still deployed there were engaged

They most likely were initially supported by the Mexicali Brigada and eventually Colima as well - but since those two units ended up in Arizona on the opposite side of the Mexican civil war there is every chance that they were driven into AZ by the 2nd Regiment after they had taken 29 Palms

That just about covers my take on things.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Olefin

City of Angels is seen by many as apocryphal - however, I have talked to Marc Miller about a rewrite and he said that he is not interested in rewriting it - i..e it would stand as canon

Challenge 27 gives the forces in CA as the following - and it was written by Frank Chadwick so I would give it pretty much the canon stamp

Well if your playing Version 2 or 2.2 like myself you don't take much stock in older stuff the strike map of the US in 2.2 doesn't show taking LA hit directly by a nuke. Willington is close (which I don't understand as the long beach pier has the oil refinery) and even going the strike MT in the book a good portion of the city is undamaged. As I like to play a touch more realistic the damage would be less. As the Soviet only launched their ICBM missiles.

By hey play what you like.

http://www.nucleardarkness.org/nucle...sionsimulator/

[Olefin]

The nukes that hit LA were all concentrated in the south of the basin where the oil wells are - which means that LA proper really didnt get hit that bad by the nukes if you are thinking of the San Fernando Valley or Beverly Hills or Malibu - but the barrio areas, Watts, the south basin got nailed big time