T2K Tank forces

[Legbreaker]

Physically may have survived, but that dang fallout always goes where you least want it!
As I've mentioned many times over the years, even just the rumour of radiation could well keep the place deserted.

[Olefin]

The attacks were airbursts so there wouldnt have been much fallout - and if the Lima Tank Plant survived - as it did per Challenge Magazine - then most likely at least one of the two Cadillac Gage tank plants survived - meaning a very good place for an adventure a la the Ohio Challenge Magazine article

[Legbreaker]

Doesn't have to be actual fallout though, just the rumour of it to keep people away.
NOBODY wants to risk radiation poisoning and potential death.

[Olefin]

and thats what kept the Lima Tank Plant intact - i.e. everyone ran away from the presumed fallout and didnt do to it what happened to a lot of other factories and workshops - and as a result there is an intact tank factory waiting to be used again one day - and all kinds of parts you can use to keep the tanks you have left still going - even in this case if the tanks are Stingrays instead of M1's

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Now that makes sense - and the Stingray is a pretty good tank for fighting against Mexico and Division Cuba

I sometimes wonder if the Clinton Administration didn't cut Cadillac Gage's feet out from under them for political purposes (this would have been the first order of Stingray IIs produced)? Then again, they did give Thailand M60A1s and M48A5s in 1991. This makes me think that maybe this was just a "cash grab" and a chance to get rid of some unwanted surplus instead.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Olefin

and thats what kept the Lima Tank Plant intact - i.e. everyone ran away from the presumed fallout and didnt do to it what happened to a lot of other factories and workshops - and as a result there is an intact tank factory waiting to be used again one day - and all kinds of parts you can use to keep the tanks you have left still going - even in this case if the tanks are Stingrays instead of M1's

While I agree with you about the infrastructure the problem is the people. If you house them far enough away that their fears of fallout are ameliorated, they're going to require safe transportation to and from the facility which means fuel and other resources. Then there's power to the factory. I'm sure you (of any of us!) is aware of the amperage draw of the plasma torches that they use to cut armor sections with, or run the glass-bead-blasting chambers that prep armor for NBC paint coating, cranes to move turrets, lathes to true gun tubes, and on and on.

Then there's a question of lost expertise: how many very specialized jobs were handled by highly trained individuals who are now an ash shadow on the sidewalk next to what used to be their house? How do you train new people?

And the ones who survived, how do you motivate them to come back in to work when they're more worried about growing eggplant in their bathtub so they'll have enough food to last them a few weeks down the road?

Don't get me wrong, in general, I want to be on your side of the argument, but it's more than just "We have a working tank factory."

Also, one last thing: canonically Florida was devastated by five hurricanes from 1997 to 2000 (one part of Howling Wilderness I can buy in to). If the space coast got hit by a few, that plant in FL might be gone - flattened. If any of them got into the gulf ala Katrina, so might the one in LA.

Again, I'm not yelling at you saying you're just wrong wrong wrong, I just want to be realistic about it. I mean for my home campaign (just because I don't buy into the "We must make this fit AD 2300" storyline) I could see one or both facilities surviving, so I'm with you there.

[Olefin]

Oh I completely agree about the problem getting people who are trained to get the plant back up and operating again - still its definitely a good thing to have the factory still standing and all the equipment, tooling, etc.. still intact - compared to what happened to the USN sub base in The Last Submarine (which basically got torn apart by the mob looking for food)

even just having the tools and spare parts that would be stockpiled at a tank plant would be a gold mine - including the armor plate that would be stockpiled there

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

While I agree with you about the infrastructure the problem is the people. If you house them far enough away that their fears of fallout are ameliorated, they're going to require safe transportation to and from the facility which means fuel and other resources. Then there's power to the factory. I'm sure you (of any of us!) is aware of the amperage draw of the plasma torches that they use to cut armor sections with, or run the glass-bead-blasting chambers that prep armor for NBC paint coating, cranes to move turrets, lathes to true gun tubes, and on and on.

Then there's a question of lost expertise: how many very specialized jobs were handled by highly trained individuals who are now an ash shadow on the sidewalk next to what used to be their house? How do you train new people?

And the ones who survived, how do you motivate them to come back in to work when they're more worried about growing eggplant in their bathtub so they'll have enough food to last them a few weeks down the road?

Don't get me wrong, in general, I want to be on your side of the argument, but it's more than just "We have a working tank factory."

Also, one last thing: canonically Florida was devastated by five hurricanes from 1997 to 2000 (one part of Howling Wilderness I can buy in to). If the space coast got hit by a few, that plant in FL might be gone - flattened. If any of them got into the gulf ala Katrina, so might the one in LA.

Again, I'm not yelling at you saying you're just wrong wrong wrong, I just want to be realistic about it. I mean for my home campaign (just because I don't buy into the "We must make this fit AD 2300" storyline) I could see one or both facilities surviving, so I'm with you there.

FYI keep in mind that plants like that always have back up fuel supplies and power supplies on hand to operate the plant - the plant at York I worked at could keep going for several days if need be and in war time had the ability to stock pile fuel to extend that time

the question is more do the employees all run for the hills like they did at Lima and leave two tanks basically ready to be delivered or within a few man hours of being delivered - which is pretty understandable considering where that particular nuke hit - course considering the timing of the strike production may have been stopped for the holiday and thats why those two tanks never got finished

the thing that is interesting about the Lima module is that if the plant was abandoned like that someone had to have come back to get the tanks that were in deliverable condition

you never ever have no inventory even in wartime - there would be at least some tanks sitting on railcars or ready to be loaded still at the plant with their systems shut down and thus no damage from the EMP from the bomb going off