T2K and GDW's Third World War series.

[ToughOmbres]

Did anyone extensively play GDW's Third World War series, in effect playing out T2k at the Macro level? (Mods feel free to move if this does not fit)

[chico20854]

Over a dozen years ago now, a group of us in the DC area (roughly) planned to wargame out the entire war using TWW and then write it up. We polished up the rules, made maps of Manchuria and Korea and drew up orders of battle but never got the chance to play it out.

In a way, my daily writeups are the low budget, slimmed down version of what we were hoping to be able to produce, based on a reasonable simulation rather than me trying to shoehorn bits of canon, various other works and my imagination together into what you are getting now!

Maybe after I retire...

[kato13]

If anyone ever wants to make new counters for the game, I did all the prep work when Chico mentioned the need way back when; new TO&E font, color scheme for 300+ countries/factions , new aircraft silhouettes, etc.

Just dug up the program. It is not live at the moment, but I could dust it off in a day or so if there is a need.

[Adm.Lee]

I played the stuffing out of that game in the past, and come back to it sometimes. I'll be running 24 hours of it at Origins next month.

I don't think of it as T2k at macro, the game is set up to cover too short a time period, and a Soviet attack, rather than a NATO one. The new printing from Compass does have more of a Poland map, though. The logistics rules would need a lot of rewriting to cover 1996-2000 operations, IMO.

[ToughOmbres]

Originally Posted by chico20854

Over a dozen years ago now, a group of us in the DC area (roughly) planned to wargame out the entire war using TWW and then write it up. We polished up the rules, made maps of Manchuria and Korea and drew up orders of battle but never got the chance to play it out.

In a way, my daily writeups are the low budget, slimmed down version of what we were hoping to be able to produce, based on a reasonable simulation rather than me trying to shoehorn bits of canon, various other works and my imagination together into what you are getting now!

Maybe after I retire...

The recent 25 years ago write ups are really good. Hopefully the wargame was both fun and entertaining-although probably exhausting?

[ToughOmbres]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

I played the stuffing out of that game in the past, and come back to it sometimes. I'll be running 24 hours of it at Origins next month.

I don't think of it as T2k at macro, the game is set up to cover too short a time period, and a Soviet attack, rather than a NATO one. The new printing from Compass does have more of a Poland map, though. The logistics rules would need a lot of rewriting to cover 1996-2000 operations, IMO.

It is very different in many ways as you point out. Still, it was something to simulate a NATO/WP conflict at the division level in a workable way.

I have not thought about Origins in years-was unaware it was still being held.

FTR our small gaming group looked briefly at GDW's Third World War but never took the plunge. We did play GDW and later GRD's Europa series though....

[Adm.Lee]

FWIW, the reprint of the TWW series by Compass Games is very good. The rules are unchanged, there a lot more charts for tracking things that had to go on paper before, and there's now a map covering most of Poland. More detail has been added to the counters, too, like stacking points.

That said, the only change to the rules (other than cleaning up errata) was to the F-19 stealth fighter. It's still in there, but there is also a counter for the RL F-117 Nighthawk, to use at your option instead.

Europa also remains a major love of mine.

Origins hasn't gone away, it just settled down in Columbus.

[Ewan]

If you check out the files section someone has done an Asian and Palestinian Front maps and counters for the original game that might be useful.

I could see the Asian Front game being useful for creating strategic maps for a 1995 campaign

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/...-germany/files

[simcitymayor]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

I played the stuffing out of that game in the past, and come back to it sometimes. I'll be running 24 hours of it at Origins next month.

I don't think of it as T2k at macro, the game is set up to cover too short a time period, and a Soviet attack, rather than a NATO one. The new printing from Compass does have more of a Poland map, though. The logistics rules would need a lot of rewriting to cover 1996-2000 operations, IMO.

I played it a lot when it came out. Mostly solo, as few of my friends had the endurance to slug through the rules and all four maps.

I did do situation reports, mostly analyzing Pact strategies and ways that NATO could neutralize a front by picking on shaken/demoralized-capable Pact nations

Key takeaways:

* Neutralizing Pact Allies is only effective in Southern Front, Pact can "make do" with crippled allies just fine in all other fronts, and the amount of forces you have to divert is isn't worth it).

* Either side diverting anything more than a smidge of airpower away from the Northern Front won't make a hill of beans difference elsewhere, and dramatically weakens their own position.

* The Pact can't win the WF air war past turn 1, no amount of cratering will dig a hole NATO can't crawl out of, and stripping adjacent theaters of air power only prolongs the struggle. The Pact WF can protect 2-3 missions per turn, and the rest is just a sacrifice.

* If the Pact sends your older jets to other theaters, that leaves your good jets vulnerable to NATO cratering...but you can send them ALL away, wreak holy havoc down south, and try to knock out Greece/Turkey/Yugo/Austria, then spend late game pushing on Italy...that gets fun.

* The smartest tactic for NATO is to keep an airmobile ZOC line across Germany, never ever stacking units with airmobile ZOC, and hope that the Pact keeps bashing into that line until they're ineffective. Never counterattack with American divisions, just keep cycling them and removing distruptions. It's effective, but sweet jesus is it dull.

[Adm.Lee]

There's also a slick trick the Pact can try in the combined game: by massing desant divisions and air transport points, they can jump on the US POMCUS sites, and cripple the US Army.

Using the massed desant can also be used to KO Norway or take Istanbul, I think.

NATO moving just a few airmobile units into Norway early can really delay the Soviet coastal and overland thrusts.

[simcitymayor]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

There's also a slick trick the Pact can try in the combined game: by massing desant divisions and air transport points, they can jump on the US POMCUS sites, and cripple the US Army.

I remember that was mentioned in the game notes, and doing so got you exactly one mechanized/tank division, which would be instantly isolated. If I recall, there were Dutch/German divisions in the area, so you could cover some/most of the sites, I think all you'd have to do is have airmobile ZOC over the sites and a screen or airmobile ZOC along the north. Of course, all that assumes that you _know_ the move is coming.

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

Using the massed desant can also be used to KO Norway or take Istanbul, I think.

I think I diverted the US marine unit from WF to NF a lot, but I never had much trouble stopping the Pact up north. The Pact disruptions would pile up, and the progress would stop.
I never found that the airmobiles had enough attack force on their own to take and hold territory. I was able to _isolate_ Istanbul, but I still had to grind through all the troops in the pocket. It would fall, but not as quick as I wanted.

The Norway idea is interesting, never tried that. Seems like a lot of ground to cover for not a lot of VPs.

Either way, stripping your other fronts of airmobiles basically lets NATO airmobiles zip around you like you aren't even there. I could see losing Czecheslovakia or Hungary that way. A well-guarded A-10 chip and a proficiency bonus can turn an even fight into a cake-walk.

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

NATO moving just a few airmobile units into Norway early can really delay the Soviet coastal and overland thrusts.

[ToughOmbres]

Originally Posted by Ewan

If you check out the files section someone has done an Asian and Palestinian Front maps and counters for the original game that might be useful.

I could see the Asian Front game being useful for creating strategic maps for a 1995 campaign

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/...-germany/files

Thank you-I had not seen those before. The Asian Front maps were definitely good as were the Asian game/expansion.

The Palestinian Front is an interesting variant from a T2K perspective-in the timeline or RDF sourcebook wasn't the Arab/Israeli/Palestinian conflict solved by giving Palestinians joint Israeli-Jordanian citizenship with Israel being responsible for defense?