SOF: Most Elite

[RN7]

This is probably one of the most difficult questions to answer as a most major armed forces and many smaller ones have special forces which are very tough and suprisingly capable. Also some units no longer exist, the Rhodesian Selous Scouts and the WW2 German Brandenburger commandos had a ferocious reputation.

By taking a unbiased view of the question the Americans would seem to be the best in terms of resources, while in experience the British SAS/SBS are second to none, and the highly secretive Israeli special forces community must be rated as well.

The war against terror over the past 9 years has made a lot of special forces units very experienced. The British probably still set the standard and I would include the Australian/NZ SAS and Canadian JTF2 alongside them, and other European NATO units also have very good reputations. Direct combat experience and cross training with other special forces has made the American special forces community very experienced, and with their level of resources they may be the best overall at the moment.

Personally my own choice would be the British SBS, until recently you had to be a Royal Marine Commando before you even volunteered for selection.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by jester

BS!!!!!!

Elite:

The Spectre Gunship Crews are considered ELITE in the AF

Submariners are considered ELITE in the Navy

So, defining elite, or the criteria is important! Or at least the objective will determine the whole "eliteness" of the organization.

Are we going with prolonged ground combat?

Anything prolonged then we need to eliminate the SEALS, the Delta and others. As most are mission orientated and not trained or geared for long term operations.

SF, they can go bye bye! As their mission is counter insurgency and working with locals. Kinda like "The Peace Corps" but with guns

Snipers, eliminate, they are single mission orientated.

Any of the Air Force types GONE!!! Again specific mission objectives and they are not designed for combat.

If its get in and get out without engaging then some of the above units are good, if its get in and attack different storey. And then if its sustained attack or combat operations then its something else.

You have missed the point of the poll. It is quite explicit in its question - of the SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES listed, which do you consider to be the most elite.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by jester

BS!!!!!!

Jester, why are you so upset? It's a friendly conversation between people who play a game and share an interest in the military. I like your ideas; I just don't understand why you're so worked up about it. Volume may stun, but it seldom persuades.

Webstral

[pmulcahy11b]

Let's just settle this once and for all: I'm the most elite.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Let's just settle this once and for all: I'm the most elite.

I have been won over by your persausive argument - I agree.
I'm changing my vote to Paul Mulcahy.

[waiting4something]

I went with Army Special Forces aka Green Berets. The one's I had run into were cool humble guys. Every person I know that has met some has had the same impression on them too. I mean the dudes are well rounded in their studies, and there not arrogant like many people that reach the elite club. The guys tend to be older which I think is a plus too for having a mature view of things.
I think they don't get the hype the Seals get, because they are a more about working with and training partisan units. They can do all the cool direct action shit, but they can also do non combative shit too and blend with the locals.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by waiting4something

I went with Army Special Forces aka Green Berets. The one's I had run into were cool humble guys. Every person I know that has met some has had the same impression on them too. I mean the dudes are well rounded in their studies, and there not arrogant like many people that reach the elite club. The guys tend to be older which I think is a plus too for having a mature view of things.
I think they don't get the hype the Seals get, because they are a more about working with and training partisan units. They can do all the cool direct action shit, but they can also do non combative shit too and blend with the locals.

I'll agree there; some of my best teachers in the Army were former SF troops who were doing duty with regular units after a promotion or because they needed a change of pace. They are those kind of soldiers who "have forgotten more than you'll ever know."

I'll put in a vote for the Air Force CCTs too -- they worked right alongside us at the 82nd Airborne and were every bit as STRAC as soldiers as we were.

[jester]

Originally Posted by Webstral

Jester, why are you so upset? It's a friendly conversation between people who play a game and share an interest in the military. I like your ideas; I just don't understand why you're so worked up about it. Volume may stun, but it seldom persuades.

Webstral

Who said I was worked up! I'm not! I'm not worked up. Nopt at all, not I say, not!

My point was there are different criteria for ELITE within each force according to that forces or even the Elites organization and mission.

Some are direct combat, some are covert ops, some are traditional comando ops with raids and such.

But, some of the units, are more support rather than "elite." They have high standards and such, which put them in the realm of elite, but as for ability, it isn't really there as a fighting force.

Now let me consult the list once more and make a selection.

And wo to all of you lest I let loose with weapons of mass destruction! My chili and a locked room!

[jester]

Nope, none of them appealed to me, and I have worked with a good number of such units too.

[HorseSoldier]

How does one determine most elite?

I voted for CAG (Delta, or whatever they're calling themselves this week) because, while you can in theory be a cook or truck driver or whatever and go to selection and OTC and come out the other end an assaulter (and a small portion of guys do just that) most of the guys who wind up in CAG come out of either the 75th of the SF community.

So, unlike most most other SOF units out there, the majority of CAG assaulters have already been cycled through one SOF selection process before they show up for that selection process. (A similar situation exists with the SBS and the Royal Marines, and your average SAS guy comes out of the Paras, which is also similar.)

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

You forgot the little known United states Marine Special Forces, Bored and very enthusiastic Cooks and Bakers. While they lack in specific special forces training they make up with enthusiasm and imagination.

When given an opportunity to do what Marines are supposed to do, this bunch puts there all into it.

Granted my experience in this has been all in the training operation side of it, and no actual combat experience (other then in the bars). Given the opportunity and the equipment they will do some rather amazing things. One particular training exercise which I will not give any more detailed information on to protect the egos of the Marine recon unit, a small group of about a dozen cooks, bakers and mess-men were given a "motivational" training opportunity and taken on an OJT LRRP. They Captured/Killed a larger group of Recon, including a relatively high ranking Officer. Preventing an attack on a Supply and Command Forward operating base. (special note that about half of small unit were veterans of role playing games)

On top of that there were allot more of us that could Handel our booze allot better then the infantry and combat types. (some of the men you never knew they were drunk, cause you never saw them sober). And we felt no pain in the bar fights, before, during, or after.

Hell, the long hours of putting up with insults on our cooking and baking gave us the payback factor when we got the opportunity. In the Marines a cook or a baker was still a Marine. Horrible hours of regular duty followed by normal Training and responsibilities. But as I hear it those elite few are getting fewer and fewer as they are being phased out and replaced by contract civilians more and more.

From a former Elite MOS 3311, Field Baker.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Cpl. Kalkwarf

You forgot the little known United states Marine Special Forces, Bored and very enthusiastic Cooks and Bakers. While they lack in specific special forces training they make up with enthusiasm and imagination.

When given an opportunity to do what Marines are supposed to do, this bunch puts there all into it.

Granted my experience in this has been all in the training operation side of it, and no actual combat experience (other then in the bars). Given the opportunity and the equipment they will do some rather amazing things. One particular training exercise which I will not give any more detailed information on to protect the egos of the Marine recon unit, a small group of about a dozen cooks, bakers and mess-men were given a "motivational" training opportunity and taken on an OJT LRRP. They Captured/Killed a larger group of Recon, including a relatively high ranking Officer. Preventing an attack on a Supply and Command Forward operating base. (special note that about half of small unit were veterans of role playing games)

On top of that there were allot more of us that could Handel our booze allot better then the infantry and combat types. (some of the men you never knew they were drunk, cause you never saw them sober). And we felt no pain in the bar fights, before, during, or after.

Hell, the long hours of putting up with insults on our cooking and baking gave us the payback factor when we got the opportunity. In the Marines a cook or a baker was still a Marine. Horrible hours of regular duty followed by normal Training and responsibilities. But as I hear it those elite few are getting fewer and fewer as they are being phased out and replaced by contract civilians more and more.

From a former Elite MOS 3311, Field Baker.

Funny story about the SF training camp at Ramsund ,Nothern Norway ,home to the MarinejegerKommando - Something along the lines of Navy seals or there abouts . One saturday some years back a brawl erupted at the local pub off base .The police had to gather deputies from the surrounding counties ( long distances -few people up there ) before they could brake it up .Turns out the base cooks ,( conscripts ), had had it out with some of the SF type guys in the bar .As the story goes the MarineJegers lost the bloody brawl and the brass decided to "split" the times so that it was off limits to either group at interval so that they no longer could chance to meet there .

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

So, unlike most most other SOF units out there, the majority of CAG assaulters have already been cycled through one SOF selection process before they show up for that selection process. (A similar situation exists with the SBS and the Royal Marines, and your average SAS guy comes out of the Paras, which is also similar.)

That's a really good point and a relatively objective way to determine which units qualify as "most elite".

[CDAT]

I have to agree that this is a hard one to answer. My take on some of them.
SAS/Delta Force - At this point more or less the same the real difference would be the individual operator I think, and are probably the best direct action units.
Green Berets - Most highly trained troops, there job is to go behind enemy lines and train the locals to fight. There medics are from my understanding the highest trained medics in the US Military it has been described to me by several different groups (both in and out of the military) that they are unlicensed physicians. And each of specialties are trained to the same level.
SEALs - A lot of hype to them, but still the best as ship to ship action. (Quiet professionals they are not.)
U.S. Army Rangers - According to the Ranges I worked with they are not really Special Forces, but are Special Operations. To me that does not make much difference but to them it did. Having said that they are the most destructive as they can field up to an entire regiment if needed.

RMC/SBS - My guess is that they would be kind of like the SEAL's just with out all the talk about how they are so great.
French Foreign Legion - I would not class them as a special forces unit, but as they are here kind of like the Rangers maybe.
Marine Recon - Not a special forces unit. Great scouts, and all that, but not special forces.
USAF PJs - Best prehosbital care, see reply below.
GSG-9 - Best law enforcement special action team.
Spetznaz - As this is a class not a specific group can not comment. They have lots of different groups that are called Spetznaz and they are very different for example my under standing that group "Alpha" is there version of the SAS/Delta, but they also have some for SEAL's and so on.
KSK/GIGN - Do not know enough about them to comment.

I spent about Eight years working EOD, during my three deployments of a year to a year and a half each I got to work with/for/or around lots of the Special Forces types, including all US and some foreign (never for, but around the foreign)

Originally Posted by Raellus

I'm voting USAF PJs. Their selection program has the highest dropout rate in the U.S. military (something like 90%). They all have to learn trauma aid as well as SF-style combat tactics, parachute insertion, FAC, combat swimming, etc. I don't think they get the same glory because their primary mission is saving lives as opposed to taking them- a sad observation about human nature.

This is different than what I got from all of them, I was told when asking (my cousin was looking at trying to go special forces at the time). I was told that the PJ is the easiest way to get into the Special Forces community. Ranger is the easiest way into the special operations community.

Originally Posted by Raellus

Delta is too shadowy and I get the impression that they are CQB/hostage rescue specialists and not very well suited to operating in non-urban environments.

I can say that they work super well in the urban environment, and also the desert.

And last but not least who is the craziest of them all? I have to give this to the Australian SAS (I do not know if there were others with them) I did not work with/for them, but around them and they take the cake as far as I have ever seen.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by CDAT

This is different than what I got from all of them, I was told when asking (my cousin was looking at trying to go special forces at the time). I was told that the PJ is the easiest way to get into the Special Forces community.

I suggest doing a little research on the PJs instead of taking your cousin's word for it. He may be right, but that's quite a claim to take on "authority".

Originally Posted by CDAT

And last but not least who is the craziest of them all? I have to give this to the Australian SAS (I do not know if there were others with them) I did not work with/for them, but around them and they take the cake as far as I have ever seen.

What about those Spetznaz guys that kung fu kick one another and break bottles and two-by-fours over their heads at demonstrations. I'm not sure that kind of stuff proves anyone's "elite" but it does seem to indicate a lack of good judgment and/or problem-solving skills.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I suggest doing a little research on the PJs instead of taking your cousin's word for it. He may be right, but that's quite a claim to take on "authority".

It was not from him, it was from them for him. So from the PJ's them self. He later decided to go to medical school instead of joining.

Originally Posted by Raellus

What about those Spetznaz guys that kung fu kick one another and break bottles and two-by-fours over their heads at demonstrations. I'm not sure that kind of stuff proves anyone's "elite" but it does seem to indicate a lack of good judgment and/or problem-solving skills.

Just the lack of good judgment/problem-solving skills does not make you crazy.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by CDAT

It was not from him, it was from them for him. So from the PJ's them self. He later decided to go to medical school instead of joining.

Then they had a vested interest in telling him that, right? They were recruiting him, were they not?

[.45cultist]

Another "other" unit is the CIA SAD teams who draw from the operator community. BTW, the third top tear medal- The Intelligence Cross is pretty much a posthumous award. But SAD(can't remember their previous moniker) would be available to fight the KGB and GRU teams in Krakow and elsewhere. As spies it would be best not to get caught though.

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by Webstral

(Snip)

As for the Rangers, who I hold in very high esteem, I'm going to stick with the guidance given me by my first NCO mentor, who had been a Ranger back in the day: "A Ranger is nothing more and nothing less than what every infantryman ought to be.Webstral

To jump genres, Webstrall, Your NCO sounds like a Dorsai.

[bobcat]

i have to go with the blanket heads for this. they have to be able to kick in doors, shoot people and break things like everyone else. and on top of that they have to be able to teach people who have probably never even seen a modern weapon before how to fight a war behind enemy lines. imagine combining rambo, a college professor, and james bond into one person. chuck noris isn't even that good.

[Draq]

An excellent list. I'd have to say MACV-SOG. Not to diminish any other organization. And the Gurkhas.