Red Dawn Remake!

[waiting4something]

Originally Posted by Nowhere Man 1966

You too, huh? I have a nostalgia for the Cold War too. Atl east you know which side you were on and you had three basic sides, us, them or neutral. I'm a big fan of the cartoon, "The Tick," and if I was a superhero, my battle cry would be "I miss the 80's!" When I see shows like "Airwolf" and "Greatest American Hero," sometimes I tear goes down my eye and I think of the good, old days.

Yes, I wish I could have served in the military when the cold war was going on. I bet it was a totally different attitude or feel to it. The 80's had the best shows no doubt. Back then it was all about being bad ass and cool even if most people who tried still weren't. Then the 90's came washed it away with sensitivity, the real world, MTV without music videos, no real foreign enemies, girls in scarecrow pants, and a down sizing of our economy.

[Webstral]

I try to explain to my students how different things were when I was their age, and I don't just mean that we were stuck with early Atari and Pacman. They just don't get the idea that in the early 1980's, we still believed that the Reds could come rolling across the German border on any given day. The idea that we might not win that fight is beyond their comprehension. I remind them that the Russians maintain a nuclear arsenal large enough to wipe out the United States several times over, and I get blank looks. What do you mean, Mr. Leary? How could that be?

It was good when the Soviets were the boogeyman. They were good at it, and they were willing to play the part. The Chinese just aren't there yet, although time will tell. As for the Indians, they are hobbled by that democracy thing. They might go to war with Pakistan or China, but it's hard to see them at war with us. You just can't get bad guys like you used to. I guess it's off to a nostalgia review of Red Dawn and The Beast.

Webstral

[RN7]

How about the French as a boogeyman Webstral?

They think they are a superpower, their trying to dominate Europe through the European Union, and have an irrational dislike of America and the English speaking world which is more deep routed and probably far worse that the idealogically driven propaganda of the Russians in Soviet times. They also have military bases in South America and the Carribean, they own an island in the North Atlantic off New Foundland, and have a vocal fifth column north of the border in Quebec, and maybe a lot of sleeper agents in Louisanna as well.

[Webstral]

I'm just not a committed francophobe. The French are a pain because they are in it for themselves and, much more so than the Brits, have distinctly different ideas about what that means compared to us. I can't fault them for having their own ideas and their own agenda. Now if France were to conquer Western Europe, then a modern Napoleon would make a good villain.

Besides, I wish our women would learn something from French women.

Webstral

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Webstral

Besides, I wish our women would learn something from French women.

As long as it isn't learning not to shave their armpits.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Targan

As long as it isn't learning not to shave their armpits.

Brr. That's not the image I wanted before going to bed.

Webstral

[pmulcahy11b]

I've never understood the French irrational dislike of Americans. We were friends once, or at least were useful to them -- the Americans wouldn't have won the Revolution without French intervention. Maybe it's because we defaulted on our debts to the French after the American Revolution, and shortly thereafter took incredible advantage of the French with the Louisiana Purchase because of the French political situation at the time? A bit long to hold a grudge...

I do understand world animosity towards the US, though the French seem to carry it a bit further than necessary sometimes. The US is still an incredibly arrogant country (and as an American myself, it hurts to admit it), and we piss a lot of people off because we tend not to admit that other countries may be right about things too.

In a T2K context, a lot of the world may be pissed off at the US because about half the nukes that flew in the war were American -- particularly on the TDM. I imagine a lot of people might not be that happy to see Americans or Soviets show up anywhere.

[Webstral]

We tend to lord it over the French with the whole "We saved you twice" routine. We may have tipped the scales in WW1, but the French are the ones who took the casualties. Given that we beat the stuffing out of northern France while liberating it in WW2, it's not hard to see that they might feel that gratitude should be tempered somewhat.

Then there's that Vietnam thing. Having made a complete hash of things, the French then had to endure being ignored by us on the advisability of further involvement.

Webstral

[Gabe The Gun]

The most spoken French phrase throughout history? "We surrender" ha ha...............Gosh I cant stand the Frenchies.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Gabe The Gun

The most spoken French phrase throughout history? "We surrender" ha ha...............Gosh I cant stand the Frenchies.

A bit of an over simplification on the surrender side. For the most part I don't think the French care what we think of them and therefore I pretty much don't care what they think of us.

[Marc]

I’ve always thought that one of the added values of this site is the number of nationalities represented by the posters. And I’m very sure that the myths and clichés in use in one country about another are not a very good point of reference. We have our own myths and clichés about North-Americans, too. This forum is chance, for me, to talk with people from the other side of the Atlantic and learn some of their point of views beyond my preconceived ideas. At any time, my own lack of knowledge about another country could create unrest after an unfortunate affirmation or an unsuitable question. Then I will accept a fair correction and I will expect that the others understand that my intention was not to offend.

About the Frenchs, Catalans have run away in front of them the same times that they have run away in front of us. I cannot count the times that both parts have been in war against each other since the Middle Age, with and without the implication of Spain. We’ve fought against them in Sicily, Greece, the Italian peninsula, Occitania, and inside our own frontiers. You must then add all the Spain-French conflicts. And we have been allies, too! Some of them volunteered in Spain to fight in our civil war, without proper preparation or equipment and against all the odds. And, talking about surrenders, most of the (current or past) European nations, once consolidated, have had their own “Red, Blue or Whatever Color Dawn�. I suppose that war inside your own borders change everything.

Sometimes, we, in Europe, tend to think that we have more information about North-America that North-Americans have about us. And if the first thought of somebody about Spain is “bulls�, he/she need more information .

Anyway clichés and simplifications are not good advisers. Hmmmmm... I hope to have passed my “English language skill roll�. Nothing more far away of my intentions to have sounded disrespectful.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Marc

Anyway clichés and simplifications are not good advisers.

Very true and this forum is a good way to see different perspectives.

[Webstral]

This is a good forum for hearing different points of view.

Webstral

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I've never understood the French irrational dislike of Americans. We were friends once, or at least were useful to them -- the Americans wouldn't have won the Revolution without French intervention. Maybe it's because we defaulted on our debts to the French after the American Revolution, and shortly thereafter took incredible advantage of the French with the Louisiana Purchase because of the French political situation at the time? A bit long to hold a grudge...

I think the reason is more modern, it directly involves DeGaulle and his beliefs at the time. Most of this I am writing from memory but it's worth doing some reading on the subject because it shows a side of European politics that doesn't get much attention and shows how modern France developed the way it did.

Two things in particular occured to make him think the way he did. The first was the US refusal to help the French, Israelis and British during the Suez Crisis, more specificially, refusal to help after those nations had committed themselves to the fight.
The second was when Kennedy toned down the US response to a Soviet invasion of Europe (it used to be that the US response to any invasion of Western Europe would be retaliation with nuclear weapons)
DeGaulle saw these as a weakening of US resolve and he believed that the US would not support its allies if the situation was not going to be advantageous to the US.

DeGaulle also lived during the time of the Marshall Plan and saw it as a way for the US to screw more money out of a war ravaged Europe and he believed that in light of all those things mentioned above plus the lack of Western support to help the French "re-colonize" Indochina, that France could only survive the future if she became independent of other nations.
He is responsible for French foreign policy and French nuclear energy and weapons.
He strongly believed that Europe (all of Europe, West & East but not including the Soviet Union) should be free of US and British influence and should be a third power standing between the US/UK and the Soviet Union and lobbied to make this so.
He had such an influence on French politicians that they maintained the same "DeGaullist" thinking for decades and this included a snobbish attitude towards the UK and outright distrust of the US.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Gabe The Gun

Gosh I cant stand the Frenchies.

Wow. The internet is a place of sweeping statements but man, thats a goody. Are you saying that you can't stand an entire nation of people? How many French people have you ever got to know well?

Not that I'm the voice of wisdom by any means but that sort of sweeping generalisation is likely to offend at least one long time poster on this forum. There are a number of American public figures that I can't stand and American politics really p*sses me off sometimes but never would I say that "Gosh I can't stand Americans". I very much enjoy talking to Americans on this forum pretty much every day.

Perhaps you might like to have a look back through the posts of our regular French member here. From what I have read he seems like a great guy.

[RN7]

Jeez I wish I hadn't brought up France now, it was really only a tongue in cheek flip at French pretentions.

Do the French actually dislike Americans? Well I'm sure most don't and any anti-American rhetoric tends to come from French politicians and is directed towards American foreign policy. But some definitely have a chip on their shoulder over America and the English speaking world, and I don't know if it can be blamed on a cultural inferiority complex or just plain resentment.

My own simple theory is that many French believe that France and the French language and culture should have become the dominant force in western culture that the Anglo-phone world has become.

Throughout the 18th Century France was probably the most powerful country in the western world and France was building a world wide empire even before the French revolution. It all reached its apex with the rise of Napoleon. Every were outside of Europe France was defeated by Britain (the America's, Egypt, India), and Napoleon was finally beaten by a coalition led by a British general.

Up until the 19th Century French was undisputably the language of diplomacy and was the main language of most courts in Europe. That all changed in the 19th Century as the British Empire eclipsed France in international prestige and power, and English gradually began to replace French as the dominant international language. By the early-to-mid 20th Century America had taken over the lead from Britain, but English continued to become even more dominant.

The rise of Germany in Europe only made things worse for France, as the French where being challenged and dominated by a newly unified culture who France had dominated for centuries before in Europe, but France also had to be bailed out and rescued by the same culture which had surplanted its own on the international stage.

Persieved slights and heavy handed American foreign diplomacy, and British before it, haven't helped things, but basically I think its just down to resentment.

Just a theory.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Targan

Perhaps you might like to have a look back through the posts of our regular French member here. From what I have read he seems like a great guy.

Fully agree. Link to Mohoender's posts. Mo has been a valued contributor (even though like many members he is prone to long posting breaks) and regardless of what I sometimes sometimes may think about the French motivations or actions, I truly value his perspective, and if you forgive my presumption, his friendship.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by RN7

MY own simple theory is that many French believe that France and the French language and culture should have become the dominant force in western culture that the Anglo-phone world has become.

More than a little truth to this, I think. Reverse a few historical outcomes, and it could be anglophones complaining about the heavy-handedness of the French.

Webstral

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Gabe The Gun

The most spoken French phrase throughout history? "We surrender" ha ha...............Gosh I cant stand the Frenchies.

It has been explained to me that this is a direct quote from a TV show and was meant to be humorous and sarcastic. With this explanation (and apology) I hope we can all chalk up any confusion or potential bad blood to a simple misunderstanding.

A tip to all users old and new is that any thing meant to be said with a wink and a smile should be presented with a ";)" and a ":D". Sarcasm and humor which are readily apparent in one's head do not always appear so obviously in text. Even my attempts at humor have sometimes been badly misunderstood by people who have known me on this forum for years, so it is not at all uncommon.

[headquarters]

The US-Euro relations have their ups and downs .And there always be people that just ned to grasp a simple answer and stereotype others to fit in their view of the world.I think the opinions vary greatly in each country however and that the bonds from close to a century of alliance (1917-2010) are not easily broken.

The French were very vocal and active in trying to oppose the Bush administrations wars and foreign policies due to their own interests and their public opinion . ( This is true for a lot of other Europeans too) .

The French tried to rally support for their cause and the Bush administration answered with their plays .Soon the diplomatic row spilled out into the streets and popular dislike of eachother started spreading .

War is a hot potato ,and the information age has made any black and white or right/wrong spin on any war impossible.Just to many sources to take perspectives from.Its more like grey and a little more charcoal now if you ask me.So naturally -feelings ran high on either side as national pride,principle,good intentions and several hundred billion dollars were at stake.

Euro/US relations were at a low because of this ,reminiscent of the anti US sentiments in the early 1970s due to the wars in South East Asia.

Since the war in 2003 relations have improved somewhat imho.The row that led to the discord has ended,and the politicians are making small amends by supporting US war effort in exchange for slight alterations in US policy here and there.French troops fight alongside the US in Afghanistan.They were in Gulf I too ( as were with the Syrians if you can believe it - thats right Syrian allies ).

Some may still be harbouring sentiment against the other still.And there will surely be more rows.And the politicians will us etheir spin doctors to portray Americans as shooting up everything and the French or Europeans as doing didley but being "fresh" towards Washington.

I still think the alliance will last a long time.

There will be a break up or an end at some point -every relationship has one .
History proves that it is inevitable .But thats a long ways into the future.