OT: Women on subs

[copeab]

US women to be allowed to serve on submarines. I find it interesting who allegedly is most upset about this ...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100429/..._on_submarines

[pmulcahy11b]

I know it's wrong, but I keep thinking about the movie Operation Petticoat...I'm not normally that chauvinistic!

[Matt Wiser]

Or the 1970s TV series, with a young Jamie Lee Curtis as one of the nurses. Anyway, it's about time. And it's a good idea to have women first on the boomers and the SSGNs, and then gradually get them onto the fast-attack boats. And despite what Elaine Donnelly and Phyllis Schafly would have you think, this was a non-issue for Congress. (I wish those two would just shut up!)

[pmulcahy11b]

I think a logical next step would be for the Army and Marines to open up the attack helicopter field to women.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I think a logical next step would be for the Army and Marines to open up the attack helicopter field to women.

To me the next logical step would be to open up any field.

[Matt Wiser]

The attack helo field has been open to women since 1993 in both the Army and USMC. The only fields closed are:

Infantry

Armor

Field Artillery

SOF (SEALs, Rangers, Army SF, AF PJs and Combat Control Teams)

Battlefield Air Defense (Stinger teams, Humvee Avengers, Bradley Stinger)

Though I imagine that will change, since the current Army Chief of Staff and the Chairman of the JCS have called for a reevaluation of these restrictions.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

To me the next logical step would be to open up any field.

Me too. We have had equal opportunity military since the 1970s.

If a woman can pass selection and make it through training as well as a man she is in up here .Fighter pilots,infantry,artillery,subs etc .I have yet to hear of a female SF operator though..But considering the selection process..It is so brutal that hardly anyone makes it at all.probably women have tried and failed .But it is of course all secret .

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by headquarters

I have yet to hear of a female SF operator though.

Canadian JTF2 has/had at least one. I don't know any details though, only saw her when I was doing enemy force.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by copeab

US women to be allowed to serve on submarines.

Nice to see that Australia is ahead of the game in this area.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by headquarters

I have yet to hear of a female SF operator though.

There have been rumors for many years that Delta Force has a small number of women used for intelligence-gathering (not combat) missions. Given the highly secretive nature of Delta Force, we are unlikely to ever know if this rumor is true or not. It is certainly plausible though, given the missions they are tasked with.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by copeab

There have been rumors for many years that Delta Force has a small number of women used for intelligence-gathering (not combat) missions. Given the highly secretive nature of Delta Force, we are unlikely to ever know if this rumor is true or not. It is certainly plausible though, given the missions they are tasked with.

In your opinion - will these Special Forces operators be especially hot ?

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

Canadian JTF2 has/had at least one. I don't know any details though, only saw her when I was doing enemy force.

I've read media articles stating that a small number of women served with the SAS and other clandestine units in Northern Ireland during the 70's and 80's. I think* they were officially attached to the Intelligence Corps rather than the SAS, so not SOF in the strictest sense of the word.

*(For obvious reasons there wasn't much by the way of specifics in the article).

Edit. Just seen Copeab's post about rumours of women serving with Delta Force, and I think the British women I'm referring to had a similar role.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by headquarters

I have yet to hear of a female SF operator though..

Here you go: the French 1st RPIMa currently has 43 women within its ranks.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

I think* they were officially attached to the Intelligence Corps rather than the SAS, so not SOF in the strictest sense of the word.

Yeah I'm familiar a little with that and also think they were intelligence corps... If memory serves, I believe 2 Int Company sounds right or something like that. The unit was more secretive than the other usual Int units.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by headquarters

In your opinion - will these Special Forces operators be especially hot ?

If you need them to be, sure

(Most likely, they would be fairly average looking, to better blend into the population)

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

Here you go: the French 1st RPIMa currently has 43 women within its ranks.

Now that you say it , I was thinking about OUR army .But ,in retrospect I hadnt heard of females in the SF globally either.

Until now that is .

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by copeab

If you need them to be, sure

(Most likely, they would be fairly average looking, to better blend into the population)

..I do.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by headquarters

Now that you say it , I was thinking about OUR army .But ,in retrospect I hadnt heard of females in the SF globally either.

Until now that is .

Something else is interesting especially toward T2K. In the current French Army, women represent 20% of all new recruits, 14% of all army personnels and only 4% of the complement in that SF unit. They are equally allowed in the foreign legion but, so far, none has completed the tests.

[mikeo80]

If a woman can do the job, let her.

Another thought....IF the worst were to happen, and the Trident subs emptied their cargo of death, the subs MIGHT be the only un radiated population left.

[ex3313]

having served on 2 boomers I forsee lots of problems there a certain ego built into bubbleheads and that will be rough on ladies also the old radition manuals required pregant women be removed from rad areas

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by headquarters

Now that you say it , I was thinking about OUR army .But ,in retrospect I hadnt heard of females in the SF globally either

It's never been confirmed, but it has always been rumored that Delta has some female operators, either specialists with certain skills or as intelligence assets.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

To me the next logical step would be to open up any field.

Yes, but you know how military inertia is. You have to do things in steps...integration of women is never going to happen all at once, at least not in the US military.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by ex3313

having served on 2 boomers I forsee lots of problems there a certain ego built into bubbleheads and that will be rough on ladies also the old radition manuals required pregant women be removed from rad areas

Hopefully before they become too big to fit through the exit hatch! {I'm thinking about my own bathroom, to be honest, my wife had to turn about 20 degrees to get past the sink.}

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by ex3313

having served on 2 boomers I forsee lots of problems there a certain ego built into bubbleheads and that will be rough on ladies also the old radition manuals required pregant women be removed from rad areas

I would imagine, given the close quarters and the nature of working near a nuclear reactor, they would remove the woman to land duty until her post-pregnancy leave was over. But as offspring are most vulnerable to mutations during the embryonic phase -- that is a worry.

[Matt Wiser]

The Delta outfit that has women is called "The Funny Platoon." It's not a Charlie Beckwith invention, but his successor created it in the late '80s. The women can disguise themselves as reporters, airline employees, and other civilians whose jobs might take them into a high-threat area and they can recon a target. No word, given Delta's OPSEC, on whether or not these lovely and lethal ladies have gone on ops, but it's more than likely that they have.

[Abbott Shaull]

I would think the ladies in Delta could hold their own in any type fight. Especially since being one who can go places without immediate backup would need to know how to take care of herself.

Abbott

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

I would think the ladies in Delta could hold their own in any type fight. Especially since being one who can go places without immediate backup would need to know how to take care of herself.

Abbott

they are probably tough as nails.I guess after mating they rip the head of their spouse and devour him .

You dont end up an operator regardless of genitalia - if the handlers dont know you could bring a city block down on your own.

[Abbott Shaull]

Honestly, I think we have been in the cave man mode for too long. Then again as long as she can pull her weight she welcome to the position. Yes, it always surprising that it seem to be some of the biggest women 'liberators' who object when they get their wish. I have been one who believes that if they want to join the military then, they should have same PT testing standards, but that is just me.

Honestly, with the Maintenance Company that got lost during the opening stages of operation in Iraq. Then take into account the number of females who are in such units a Military Police units that are on the front-lines no matter what people back in Washington want to believe. Many of them have shown they can and do carry their own weight. Even remember a news article or two about some Company grade officers too, about how they were leading basically combat mission in their role.

It just silly that they are kept out of Infantry, Artillery, and Armor. When basically the MP, Engineer, and Aviation they have been assigned too are just as close if not closer to the front-line with the other units. With them doing the jobs in those branches it only a matter of time before they get into the last three hold outs.

Special Operation Units well, since they all have Operation security, one can never tell how many and what function they serve. Granted, I doubt you will see one serving with the 75th Ranger Regiment any time soon, but once they are allowed into Infantry, it won't take long for them to be sent to the Ranger School and Q-course. It all a matter of time.

[waiting4something]

I used to be a fan of women joining combat units until I joined the military. Sure it seems sexy or fair for women to have the same chances as guys, but war isn't going to be either of those. I think having women working besides you in a infantry unit atleast, would be dreadful. Dudes would be always trying to get laid instead of focusing at their job. Plus you can't slow down for cramps and vaginal bleeding. If they get knocked up what are you gonna do? Make them the company clerk? You can only have so many of those.

Yeah, I know there are some tough ladies out there that can compete, but they are still a walking conquest for guys. The pog units that I saw with women were like this too. Dudes flirting with them, them flirting with dudes. It was just down right unprofessional. When I was on ship one of the female sailors got set back stateside, because she was knocked up. I just see things not working well.

Women in combat units will most likely happen someday, it's a sign of the times. Maybe, they should start with all women units.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by waiting4something

I used to be a fan of women joining combat units until I joined the military. Sure it seems sexy or fair for women to have the same chances as guys, but war isn't going to be either of those. I think having women working besides you in a infantry unit atleast, would be dreadful. Dudes would be always trying to get laid instead of focusing at their job. Plus you can't slow down for cramps and vaginal bleeding.

On the upside, combat medics would have a ready-supply of tampons for plugging wounds.

If they get knocked up what are you gonna do? Make them the company clerk? You can only have so many of those.

There was a story I read in a book on US POWs of WWII, probably apocryphal ...

In the spring of 1945, a POW camp was liberated by a Russian combat unit. The Americans were shocked to see armed female soldiers mixed in with the troops. One Yank asked what happened if one of the female soldiers got pregnant. A Russian soldier replied grimly: "She is taken out and shot."

I'll note that those few cultures with the "sworn virgin" tradition (which included Albania) are very unlikely to have this last problem.