Poll - Favorite Assault Rifle

[HorseSoldier]

Not to my knowledge. Cleaning the pistons on my AK and SKSs isn't that difficult.

Routine use, definitely not a problem on most piston designs. Especially not on an AK, where most of the propellant gas bled off the action vents within the first bit of the gas tube, after giving the bolt a sharp kick to get it moving.

Corrosive ammo + sustained neglect can equal some real nastiness, given enough time, though.

[Spoe]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

Especially not on an AK, where most of the propellant gas bled off the action vents within the first bit of the gas tube, after giving the bolt a sharp kick to get it moving.

Assuming your gas tube is vented. Not all AKs have a vented gas tube, however.

Corrosive ammo + sustained neglect can equal some real nastiness, given enough time, though.

This goes without saying. Of course, corrosive ammo isn't the bugbear some make it out to be, though.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Spoe

This goes without saying. Of course, corrosive ammo isn't the bugbear some make it out to be, though.

Corrosive ammo can be problematic, but it's more an issue for reloaders and handloaders than it is for the average shooter, especially if corrosive primers were used in the original round. It's also a big issue when you are shooting old ammunition, as the ammo might have degraded enough to render it unfireable or even dangerous. That's an issue that a T2K GM could easily exploit.

[headquarters]

It is piston driven ,but other than that relatively similar to the M4 .

I have to say ,it is a h**l of a gun.Even if it is only .556 and not our trusted
.308

Its piston system is very rugged and so far it has taken the abuse I have been allowed to dole out .

Some say that it cant take cold -this is false. It is used regularily at temperatures as low as -25C* up here -and it functions well.

As for gunk build up in the piston system -yes there will be a moderate fouling . But I think over 1000 rounds or more can be fired without even field stripping the thing .( For various reasons thats how many got through mine before a total cleaning .It wasnt badly fouled and could have taken alot more.)

Now,all AKor AR people out there this is just a preferance on my part -and it is alittle bit of both models this HK 416..

[B.T.]

I'm not quite shure on that. I am actually torn between 3 weapons. The question was, what would be the weapon of choice for my PC!

1. The weapon should be compatible with existing supply chains.

2. The ergonomics of the rifle should work.

3. You'd better be familiar with the weapon or at least the weapon family.

My problem is a relatively short thump. I have never used a real life M16/AR15/M4, but I own a softair M4. The fire selector works like a real one. Because of my short thumb, I have really problems to set the safety lever to full automatic. In a firefight that would be a sincere drawback!

I'm not fond of bullpub designs. I was trained with a conventional design and therefore I'd neglect a bullpub.

So: If my character was supposed to be of Western origin (and still belonging to a Western army), here are the weapons:

FN FNC

H&K G41

M16/M4

All three can take the STANAG mags. I'd prefer the FN or H&K because of the (to my point of view!) better fitting ergonomics.
I know, that the supply chain argument is not really a strong one, but I suppose, that most soldiers in a unit would use rifles with STANAG magazines and therefore you could use mags of your comrades (and of wounded or fallen).

If my PC was to be part of the US armed forces and a born American, he'd supposingly use the M16.

Well, that's what I think.

[dragoon500ly]

I have to cast my vote for the Galil, it really is the best of the AK/M16 clones.. I've owned one for almost nine years now and its a good all around rifle, simple, easy to maintain, large capacity magazine, excellent battle sights and it even has a bottle opener under the fore grip!! What more can you ask for?

[pmulcahy11b]

Israeli troops didn't like the Galil, primarily citing its weight, but also citing the fragility of the plastic parts. Of course, they put it through much heavier use than a civilian would.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Israeli troops didn't like the Galil, primarily citing its weight, but also citing the fragility of the plastic parts. Of course, they put it through much heavier use than a civilian would.

Never have had a problem with the weight, at least in my hands! I find that it controls muzzle climb better and allows for rapid re-acquiring of the target for multiple shots.

My Galil has the wood stock and foregrip so I can truefully say "I never had any plastic break on me!" LOL

[Twilight2000v3MM]

I've fired many in my life but I still go back to the M-16/AR-15 family. The 5.56 is pretty much a deal breaker at less than 200m. Ideally a 7.62x39 AR would be ideal or another "better" caliber (I have ARs in 7.62x39 and 6.8 SPC).

AS far as GAME goes... well Im a fan of the HK 33. I guess it goes back to "First Blood". ANd for my last birthday I got myself a clone of a HK33 just "Because" I "Needed" one in my collection before I died. LOL

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Twilight2000v3MM

AS far as GAME goes... well Im a fan of the HK 33. I guess it goes back to "First Blood". ANd for my last birthday I got myself a clone of a HK33 just "Because" I "Needed" one in my collection before I died. LOL

Max,

For post-apoc games like T2K and TMP, it's the HK91 copied and manufactured by the "Christian Survival Network". (See "Vexed to Nightmare by a Rocking Cradle" by Dan Simmons.)

Tony

[Rapparee]

Probably biased here but the Steyr AUG, love it or loath it, it got whatcha need!

Fires standard 5.56mm round so ammo's readily available.

Fully loaded, its less then eight pounds so its quite quite light. Recoil as well is barely noticable.

Bullpup design means the weapon is nicely compact.

Modular design, breaks into 4 big parts...which admittedly break into many small parts! But the cleaning kit is stored inside the butt and even if you're a complete klutz, it shouldnt take more then a minute to put it all back together again. JUst watch the gas plugs...

Magazines come in 30 or 42 round sizes. Also vaguely transparent so you can get an idea of how much rounds you've left in there.

Its quite rugged and robust. I'm pretty sure the majority of the Steyr's I'm issued with were manufactured in the 80s and have been smashed around the place but they still do the job fantastically well. Did I mention jamming is rarely an issue?

Compatible with the M203 grenade launcher.

Easy to modify, particularly for left-handed shooters so they don't get brass all in their face. Also by changing the barrels, bolt and mag (plus mag housing), you can convert it into an LMG or an SMG firing 9mm. I've tried the 9mm variant once and its bloody mental!

I'll admit the standard optical sight is shite, but if you're a halfway decent shot you should still be hitting targets past 300m, the gun will do it.

I'm personally only familiar with the A1 so no grenade launchers for me or improved optics, but the ARW have the A2's and A3's and they get all the neat gadgets. Either way, a bloody handy rifle!

I prefer the M16 or M4 series weapon. That is what I am most comfortable with in reality as well.

Although as alternatives, I would choose an M1 Garand, an M1 Garand re-chambered in .308, or an M14.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by bigehauser

I prefer the M16 or M4 series weapon. That is what I am most comfortable with in reality as well.

Although as alternatives, I would choose an M1 Garand, an M1 Garand re-chambered in .308, or an M14.

Shameless commercial plug, if you ever decide to go with a Garand, try the folks at Militech, yes it will cost you an arm and a leg as well as a future option on any first born male childern...but they took the time to do a proper rebuild (the rifle was litterly zero-timed), and included the cleaning kit, a copy of the original manual, the proper leather sling and 6 clips as part of the deal.

I purchased mine from them two years ago and have burned about 900 rounds so far, and not a single problem yet!!!

[Panther Al]

Its the AUG for me: nothing against the black rifle, its a solid design, but I feel from a usability point of view the AUG is a handier weapon, especially for mounted troops. If I had to pick a rifle to equip my army, the exact version would be in 6.8spc though, and yes, there are 6.8spc AUGs out there: they are license made in the USA by MSAR.

[pmulcahy11b]

I think the sheer amount of 5.56 NATO, 7.62mm NATO, 7.62/5.45mm Kalashnikov, and 7.62mm Nagant cartridges in the world and the companies set up to manufacture them will make their replacement difficult and a long time in coming. Eventually, though, I think we will skip over caseless ammunition and replace them with ETC for rifles and heavier weapons, and retain the cased ammo for pistols. (Don't hold your breath for an ETC rifle, though -- I think those will be something my nephew's grandchildren will have rather than any time soon.)

BTW, my nephew got lucky -- his unit at 1ID went into an extended training/reserve role, and he has yet to see either Iraq or Afghanistan. It doesn't bode well for his future in the Army (the Army favors combat vets for promotions and choice positions), but I consider him lucky.

[bobcat]

M16A2 for my PC. does the job good enough, plenty of parts around if i gotta fix it, and its looks "poge" enough that the commies just might let me pass(hey i can hope)

[Zaskar24]

I voted other even though the M16 family is the AR that I am the most familiar with. For the other I would go with the H&K G41 as its design goes back to the G3 thru the 33 to it. Uses STANAG mags and can mount NATO optics as well as the H&K claw mount ones. Plus the folding stock version is pretty compact making it ideal for mounted troops.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Eventually, though, I think we will skip over caseless ammunition and replace them with ETC for rifles and heavier weapons, and retain the cased ammo for pistols. (Don't hold your breath for an ETC rifle, though -- I think those will be something my nephew's grandchildren will have rather than any time soon.).

I recently read that one of the several reasons the G11 was not adopted by the German and U.S. armies is that caseless ammo has a potential issue with cooking off in the gun. If I understand correctly, conventional ammo helps with heat loss because the brass from spent rounds retains and takes some of the heat of discharge with it when it's ejected from the gun. Caseless ammo doesn't have this beneficial property. The gun, therefore, retains a lot of heat and this can, theoretically at least, lead some of the unfired caseless ammo to cook off in the gun. This could be catastrophic.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I think the sheer amount of 5.56 NATO, 7.62mm NATO, 7.62/5.45mm Kalashnikov, and 7.62mm Nagant cartridges in the world and the companies set up to manufacture them will make their replacement difficult and a long time in coming.

Oh I agree- the inertia that these rounds have is immense which makes the idea of rechambering the ar series a non-starter (even though the ar lends itself to it). If there is ever going to be change from the 5.56 to the 6.8 it would have to be because of the wholesale replacement of the ar series as a whole, something that won't happen soon.

Though if it did I can easily see the brits coughing politely as we swap to a .270 round and saying "We told you so..."

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I recently read that one of the several reasons the G11 was not adopted by the German and U.S. armies is that caseless ammo has a potential issue with cooking off in the gun. If I understand correctly, conventional ammo helps with heat loss because the brass from spent rounds retains and takes some of the heat of discharge with it when it's ejected from the gun. Caseless ammo doesn't have this beneficial property. The gun, therefore, retains a lot of heat and this can, theoretically at least, lead some of the unfired caseless ammo to cook off in the gun. This could be catastrophic.

from my research that issue was solved about 2 years prior to the project being scrubbed. the solution was in three parts IIRC changing the formula for the ammo to be more heat tolerant, improving the barrels heat dissipating capability, and i believe a mechanical safety to prevent a cook-off from chambering more rounds.

[Panther Al]

Well, I appear to have spoken a bit too soon:

Jordan has decided to license build 6.8spc LWRC rifles for their royal guard, true, they say only 5000 for now, but since they have the facility to make more, I wouldn't be surprised if a few years down the road the rest of the Jordanian Army goes down the 6.8 road.

[waiting4something]

I don't see why the 6.8 is such a big deal? The round is really only made for close fighting. It's like a American made version of the 7.62x39mm. 6.8 is more a specialty round then a jack of all trades. The bullets are heavier and from what I have seen magazine capacity gets reduced also. Not dogging it, but it just seems lake a bad chose to have if you have to fight outside a built up area.

[Panther Al]

Um, yes and no. The whole 5.56 vs 6.5 vs 6.8 is half fact and half hyperbole. They each have strengths and weaknesses over each other. 5.56 doesn't hit as hard as some (including me who has used it as it was meant) but you can carry a lot of it easily. The 6.5 has the range - and the hitting power at range - that has to seen to believed, but is expensive and is optimised for long distance work (and admittedly its damn good at it). The 6.8 hits much harder than the 5.56, somewhat harder than the 6.8 under 400m, and is about the same at 400m+ as the 5.56 in accuracy and hitting power, all of which I am fine with. Downside is as mentioned, ammo capacity of a 30rd mag drops to 25. I personally don't have a problem with that. You can always have built 30rd versions that won't be much bigger so you can still use most ammo pouches out there, but I'll agree the roughly 40% increase in weight compared to 5.56 does suck.

But with harder hitting bullets you won't have to use as many (not that joe won't anyways, joe being joe) to get the same results.

As to the 6.5, if I wanted a sniper round, it would be at least a 7.62.

Or you could look at it this way:
The 5.56 was designed by varmint shooters to shoot varmints.
The 6.5 was designed by game hunters to take down game with a AR platform.
The 6.8 was designed by soldiers to kill other soldiers with the same AR platform.

[Tackleberry]

5.56, 6.5 or 6.8 doesn't really matter if your only driving it down an 11 inch barrel.

L85A1, heavy, unreliable but for front line troops came as standard with a 4x SUSAT.
L85A2, Heavy, very reliable and still has an optic on it.

21" barrel gives enough velocity to an SS109 round to penetrate CRISAT armour at 450m and still has enough punch to do some damage.

I can't hit a bus at 200m with an AK, but I can hit a man sized target at 600m with an L85.

Forget the L86 though, not worth the extra barrel length.

[HorseSoldier]

I can't hit a bus at 200m with an AK, but I can hit a man sized target at 600m with an L85.

AK's aren't great, but they're not that bad. If properly zeroed both the 47 and 74 are easily 200 meter guns (meaning minute-of-man with no problems), though that's maybe about the limits of it.

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

AK's aren't great, but they're not that bad. If properly zeroed both the 47 and 74 are easily 200 meter guns (meaning minute-of-man with no problems), though that's maybe about the limits of it.

And it does matter when and where they was made. Had the chance years ago to shoot a ton of them, and it was found that the East German ones was on the whole a lot more accurate, a lot further out. Had one, that while the sights was crap, when fired locked down in place, was placing MOA groups at 400. It became a keeper - though I never did get the chance to rework it to its true potential.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

And it does matter when and where they was made. Had the chance years ago to shoot a ton of them, and it was found that the East German ones was on the whole a lot more accurate, a lot further out. Had one, that while the sights was crap, when fired locked down in place, was placing MOA groups at 400. It became a keeper - though I never did get the chance to rework it to its true potential.

I've heard similar stories, some of the East European AKs were better made than the Soviet and non-Euro nations but the East German models were considered the best of the lot.

[HorseSoldier]

We had brand new MPiK-74Ns in our arms room for foreign weapons training/familiarization, and they were awfully well put together for AKs (fit/finish better than the Polish AKMs and Bulgarian AR-M1s and RPK-74s we also had . . . and we won't even talk about the stack of Century Arms imported Romanian AKs we also had). Main issue I had with them was that folding stock is just ridiculously short, even for combat marksmanship sort of shooting. (Have heard that the Poles, who used the same stock, universally despised it on their version of the 74 as well.)



Raises the interesting idea of Warsaw Pact troops feeling that there were better and worse (or cooler/less cool) versions of the AK. With almost everyone in the front line states running some sort of AK-74, I wonder if you'd get East German AKs being prized trophies among Soviet troops, or Poles ditching their weapons for Soviet 74s any chance they got, etc. (And of course the AKSU would be extremely coveted I'm sure . . .)

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Hmm My Arsenal SG-31 5.45 (ak 74) is a great shooter. Its a 1-2is moa shooter with standard surpluss ammo. (closer to 2 then one). Thats better then minute of man. The 5.45 is more of a 300-400+ rifle I would think. The 7.62x39 is more of the 100-200ish rifle.

I think Ill go for the ak74 for my characters. In Europe/pact countries as ammo might be easier to come by.

[Sanjuro]

I went with the L85 (with a preference in post-apoc scenarios for the L1A1) for exactly the reasons Rainbow Six did; familiarity, with the added factor of tending to play British pcs.
I like the bullpup idea for the ability to carry a weapon with a full length barrel, that doesn't take up too much space in an APC. The clever 3-part sling was sheer genius- whether you're carrying something that needs both hands, or digging a trench, or relieving yourself behind a tree, the rifle stays eady for use and can be swung into firing position immediately.
The BIG downside is the inability to fire around the left hand side of buildings without exposing yourself to enemy fire- for that I almost went for the Steyr AUG, but I wondered about availability. Likewise for the Galil- I'll have to carry a bottle opener!