Soviet Webbing/LBE

[Mahatatain]

OK, this is possibly a little over the top in terms of detail but I have a question about Soviet webbing in the T2k timeline.

I assume that most Soviet troops would be issued with lifchik type webbing, as shown in the image below, that holds 6x mags, 4x grenades and a few other bits and pieces.



My question is when did the Soviet/Russian military start issuing Combat Vests like the V-95 Tactical Assault Vest that holds 8x mags, 4x hand grenades, 8x 40mmS grenades & 1x personal med kit.



Essentially I can find out lot of info about different types of Russian LBE but I'm uncertain how much of it is recent Russian gear and how much of it is Soviet era in origin and would therefore exist in the T2k universe.

Thanks for any help people can give me.

[pmulcahy11b]

I can only give you a general sort of answer. It seems that, except in the Israeli and South African Armies and a few other countries, general issue of those kind of assault vests didn't start until the mid-to-late-1990s. Special ops units may have had them earlier, but they're always trying out new stuff and are often allowed to use what works best instead of general issue.

[HorseSoldier]

I'd guess that maybe the Cat A guys would have the Lifchiks/Rhodesian rig, with the lower readiness guys probably at least starting the war with the less well set up Soviet Y harness (and scrounging for better -- probably a lot of Chinese chest rigs getting used by units that served on that front). Not 100% sure but also think the assault vest deals were post Communist.

[Raellus]

In my T2K universe, most Soviet troops (Cat. B-C and subsequent levies) are equiped mostly with simple Y-harnesses fitted with belt pouches holding 2-3 AK mags per. Cat. A, some Cat. B, and others lucky enough to scavenge them, are equiped with "Lifchik"/Chicom chest harnesses. My guess is that the Soviets would have found the Chinese style harness superior during the war in China and would have begun mass-producing them for the Red Army.

In my T2KU, only Spetznaz are issued with assault vests.

[HorseSoldier]

The Chicom vests and Soviet deals aren't much different anyway -- I'm not sure on the lineage of both, but think the Soviets copied the Chinese vests in the first place. The Chicom vests figured prominently in Vietnam, Rhodesia and other wars from the 1960s/70s time frame, but the first Soviet use I'm aware of is in Afghanistan. (Where, I seem to recall, most Soviet troops also wore locally purchased Chinese athletic shoes since Soviet Army issue boots were not suitable for patrolling on foot.)

[Adm.Lee]

The number in the "V-95" might indicate a 1995 adoption date?

[jester]

I too have read that they did adopt the vests durring their time in A-Stan. Although, not all units adopted them.

And then of course lets not forget those four magazine pouches that were slung/fixed on their belts.

I seem to recall the vests started showing up durring their time in Chechnya. That at least is when they hit the mainstream of notive in the west.

[Abbott Shaull]

The assault vest has been in the works almost every where during the 80s. Like some have already post, many were tested and fielded in special ops, but for the t2k war, I think lot of the old harness equipment would be re-issued starting in 1998 due to the easier to produce and cut down on maintenance. Much like the G11 went in the earlier version of t2k. The thing is the troop who have the combat vest probably would continue to use them until they were worn out, then reissued the older harnesses. Just my opinion on it...

[Mahatatain]

Thanks for all the information people.

Am I right in thinking that the Soviet Y harness normally has 2x double mag pouches attached to the belt?

Also, for those who've never seen this before, it appears that when the Soviets were in Afghanistan some soldiers improvised their own webbing using 2x RD-54 pouches and I assume that this "webbing" can carry 4 mags (2 in each pouch) but does anyone know if that is correct?

[HorseSoldier]

Their standard issue mag pouch was a quad mag deal issued with the troop's basic load of five mags. I think grenade pouches and one canteen counterbalanced it. That set up seems ungainly to me, but I'd guess troops in T2K using the rig would add a second mag pouch and more mags.

[Mahatatain]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

Their standard issue mag pouch was a quad mag deal issued with the troop's basic load of five mags. I think grenade pouches and one canteen counterbalanced it. That set up seems ungainly to me, but I'd guess troops in T2K using the rig would add a second mag pouch and more mags.

Hum - so those are quad mag pouches?

Thanks for the info.

[HorseSoldier]

'Early' model was a triple pouch, 'later' was the quad. Not sure when the switch occurred, but the quad pouches were copied by everyone else in the WP.

Looking at the picture, I think those are both Russian quad pouches. Soviet Army Stuff (http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/) has pretty good exemplars of a lot of Afghanistan (and Twilight)-era Soviet webbing and other odds and ends on their website, along with both older and newer items.

[Mahatatain]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

'Early' model was a triple pouch, 'later' was the quad. Not sure when the switch occurred, but the quad pouches were copied by everyone else in the WP.

Looking at the picture, I think those are both Russian quad pouches. Soviet Army Stuff (http://www.sovietarmystuff.com/) has pretty good exemplars of a lot of Afghanistan (and Twilight)-era Soviet webbing and other odds and ends on their website, along with both older and newer items.

Thanks for the info and the link.

Very interesting.

[Abbott Shaull]

Very interesting indeed. So a Pack troop with two of these bags on their web gear would have 9 mags. One of the option that some NATO characters were extra water bottle and an extra ammo pouch, which now the ammo pouch would make sense. Then again pin down a small unit long enough they will eventually run out of ammo...

[HorseSoldier]

For T2K it's also probably noteworthy that you can't really fit AK mags into pouches designed for M16/etc mags, but can do the opposite, though perhaps with something (field dressing, spare socks' whatever) stuck in the bottom to make them more accessible. I also don't think anyone in NATO issued a pistol belt that would mount Pact pouches but in a pinch WP belts could take NATO stuff. (Though their belts were lighter/ flimsier and wouldn't take a heavy amount of gear as well.)

[jester]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

For T2K it's also probably noteworthy that you can't really fit AK mags into pouches designed for M16/etc mags, but can do the opposite, though perhaps with something (field dressing, spare socks' whatever) stuck in the bottom to make them more accessible. I also don't think anyone in NATO issued a pistol belt that would mount Pact pouches but in a pinch WP belts could take NATO stuff. (Though their belts were lighter/ flimsier and wouldn't take a heavy amount of gear as well.)

Simply corrected via 550 cord and duct tape

[weswood]

Originally Posted by jester

Simply corrected via 550 cord and duct tape

I love duct tape. I watched a Mythbuster episode where they built a sailboat out if it. My goal in life is now a duct tape canoe.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by weswood

I love duct tape. I watched a Mythbuster episode where they built a sailboat out if it. My goal in life is now a duct tape canoe.

I remember when I was a teenager in CAP -- they called it "hundred-mile-an-hour tape."

[weswood]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I remember when I was a teenager in CAP -- they called it "hundred-mile-an-hour tape."

I've also heard it called that