US Police Armored Vehicles

[pmulcahy11b]

Anybody have any handle on what US Police forces or agencies are using what armored vehicles? Or weird things like the Florida Forestry Service, which has a demilled AH-1G for use in fire spotting?

[Rainbow Six]

In 1989 I did the Kennedy Space Centre tour whilst on holiday in Orlando and saw what looked very much like two M113's. iirc they were painted white and had the NASA logo on them.

[cavtroop]

Gwinnett County, GA (I think) has a couple of M114s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLMq6ldwr1E

neat little cupola they have there, with a sniper position inside of it.

Edit: Rainbow - yep, those were M113's. They're supposed to be used for evacuation of the shuttle in case of emergency or something like that.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

In 1989 I did the Kennedy Space Centre tour whilst on holiday in Orlando and saw what looked very much like two M113's. iirc they were painted white and had the NASA logo on them.

They are for emergency exit from the white room and spacecraft in case of a vehicle fire. You slide down a long wire in a basket and land next to the 113s, get in, and drive away as fast as possible; hopefully, they'll shield you when the rocket blows up (or you're far enough away by then). I think there's a designated bunker they drive to. They've been there since Apollo 7 (I don't know if they've been updated, or they're still plain vanilla M113s.)

[Abbott Shaull]

I know several police agency had retired Peacekeepers and mixture of other Cadillac Cage armor cars out there.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I saw a picture last year some time of a US police armoured vehicle that I think was a modified Saracen APC (modification included removing the centre axle to make it a 4x4 from the original 6x6).
Actually I can't recall if it was a police or sheriff's department but I think it was from one of the southern states.

In an attempt to find it, I've used Google Images with the following search terms: -
US/American Sheriff armoured car
or Sheriff APC
or Police armoured car
or Police APC
They show some interesting pics, everything from M20 Greyhounds, Cadillac Gage Rangers, Cadillac Gage V100 or V150 cars and M75, M114, M577 & M113 tracks as well as one Utah SWAT unit that had a former British Army Humber Pig WAPC and a department from Arizona using a Saracen WAPC (unmodified).
Plus the usual mix of civvy made specialist police vehicles.
It seems a number of the former US military vehicles have been acquired post September 11th 2001 however.

[RN7]

Many US law enforcement agencies uses the Lenco B.E.A.R and BearCat series armoured vehicles, including the New York City, Los Angeles, Anaheim and Dallas PD's, and the Ohio State Highway Patrol among others. The Bearcat is also used by the Army, Navy, Airforce and Marines, and the Department of Defence, Energy and State, and NASA among others.

The Caddilac Gage Ranger (Peacekeeper) is also a popular police vehicle, used by the Washington DC and Austin PD's, and the Florida Highwat Patrol.

The SWAT teams of the San Francisco, Tulsa and Sierra Vista PD each use an ex-British Army Alvis Saracen.

[Canadian Army]

For many years the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) had used Cadillac Gage Commando V-100s. Detroit SWAT also has them as well, but I find the M113 as common for Police units.

[dragoon500ly]

Post 9/11, as the M-113 series is being removed from service, according to the last Congressional Records, over two hundred have been turned over to LEA.

[boogiedowndonovan]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

a department from Arizona using a Saracen WAPC (unmodified).
.

San Francisco Police Department uses a Saracen.

Also, wikipedia says that Sierra Vista Police Department uses one. I think that's Sierra Vista, Arizona. Wikipedia also says that the Tulsa, Oklahoma PD uses a Saracen body on a commercial truck body.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvis_Saracen

[boogiedowndonovan]

Originally Posted by Canadian Army

For many years the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) had used Cadillac Gage Commando V-100s. Detroit SWAT also has them as well, but I find the M113 as common for Police units.

Looks like the LAPD still uses Cadillac Gage V-100s (I'm just using Google and searching for any city's armored recovery vehicle)

this is some dude's flicker pic.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/badlizard/3031838321/

speaking of Los Angeles PD and armored vehicles, does anyone recall the scene with the LAPD armored car in the Bruce Willis flick Die Hard?

"The quarterback is toast!!!"

[TiggerCCW UK]

Originally Posted by boogiedowndonovan

speaking of Los Angeles PD and armored vehicles, does anyone recall the scene with the LAPD armored car in the Bruce Willis flick Die Hard?

"The quarterback is toast!!!"

That was an M8 Greyhound IIRC? Would they still have been in used 40+ years after the war?

[TiggerCCW UK]

And its great to know that there are still Saracens rattling around in service - one of my favourite families of vehicles, along with the Humber Pig. Possibly as a result of growing up with them on the streets here - I remember Pigs, Saracens, Saladins, Ferrets and I think I remember seeing Fox armoured cars as well, although I might just be remembering pictures of them.

As an aside what was the APC used in Dragnet? The Tom Hanks/Dan Akroyd film version. From my youthful memories it was an M113, but I'm not sure.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

That was an M8 Greyhound IIRC? Would they still have been in used 40+ years after the war?

It might have been an M20 Utility Car, which was basically an M8 without the turret and the interior rearranged with two bench seats. However, the vehicle in the movie lacked the skate ring of the M20 (which mounted a .50-cal Browning) and the turret ring was plated over.

IIRC, the M8 was used into the 80's in some South American countries and the M20 might have been used longer.

[Legbreaker]

Since Police are unlikely to be facing up to anything heavier than assault rifles and shotguns, 50+ year old AFVs are probably more than sufficient for the job. Stick a new engine in them, upgrade the suspension from time to time and they could well see service for decades more to come.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Have not seen them in action yet, but Lincoln Nebraska got two LAV APCs. I think they are going over them and then gonna put them in a garage somewhere.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by boogiedowndonovan

San Francisco Police Department uses a Saracen.

Also, wikipedia says that Sierra Vista Police Department uses one. I think that's Sierra Vista, Arizona. Wikipedia also says that the Tulsa, Oklahoma PD uses a Saracen body on a commercial truck body.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvis_Saracen

The Tulsa PD vehicle is the Saracen I recall seeing and after spending some time searching for the damned thing, I've found the images I saw thanks to boogiedowndonovan's post referring to the Flicker page.
Here's the pics (now that I look at them again I can see that it's looks more like the hull is mounted on a different chassis rather than modifying the standard Saracen from 6x6 to 4x4 like I initially thought).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tulsabl...-404166@N23/#/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tulsabl...ool-404166@N23

The entire collection of armoured police vehicles can be found here
http://www.flickr.com/groups/404166@N23/

[Abbott Shaull]

In some locations there are M113s used for Forest Fire service.

[Canadian Army]

In May 2007, the Edmonton Police Service accepted the donation of a disarmed Grizzly from the Canadian Forces and in March 2010, the Canadian Forces Donated 2 disarmed Cougar AVGPs to the British Colombia area Royal Canadian Mounted Police for use by the Emergency Response Team.

[dragoon500ly]

In the March, 2011 issue of Tactical Weapons is a nice little write up on the Bucks County, Pennsylvania Emergency Response Teams...of special intrest is the number of armored vehicles used by the ERT. To support three ERTs there are two M-113A3 APCs, one Lenco Bear Cat armored car and one bank-type armored car.

There are two pic of the M-113; the first is an excellent shot of the front and right side. The splash board and smoke dischargers have been removed as well as the weapons mount from the TC's coupla. A police light bar has been mounted above the engine and the vehicle has a gloss dark green paint job with POLICE-RESCUE in white. The second pic shows the left side and left rear of the M-113. While the ramp is down, there is very little detail visible of the interior (DRAT!!!). The rubber shrouds are in place, although pulling the splash board kind of renders these useless.

Still, nice pics and a intresting article!

[HorseSoldier]

My agency has a Lenco Bear (the larger version than the Bear Cat) for SWAT. I've seen a number of other agencies, even relatively small ones, that field surplus M113s. Even for big agencies we're only talking about a handful of vehicles -- I think even LAPD or NYPD would be hard pressed to field a mech infantry company worth of APCs or other AFVs.

[Legbreaker]

It seems inconceivable that any police force would have more than 2 or 3 APCs. I mean, do they really expect to need them all at the same time!?
An entire company's worth (or nearly) is just mind boggling!

[dragoon500ly]

Bucks County has a pop of about 620,000 in the last cenus, and its one of the larger counties in PA, so two M-113s and 2 armored cars might be considered the high end. Even a city like NYC or LA would be hard pressed to field more than 4-6 APCs, they are specialized vehicles that might see only 2-3 days of use every year, outside of training that is. The only reason why so many M-113s are in LEA hands is because the DoD provides a large amount of surplus kevlar vests and helmets, weapons, gas masks and a handful of armored vehicles to LEA use.

In south Mississippi, the only reason why the sheriff's department and the coastal cities have M-16s/M-4s is because the DoD released them as part of the Bush administration Police grants.

[Panther Al]

There is a whole bunch of reasons that it seems that APC's are popping up all over, but my personal fav was one I was told back years ago after a random check of containers from the PRC revealed that instead of Barbie Dolls, was case after case of brand spanking new AK's, and people started wondering what they didn't catch on the way in.

IMHO, its just a matter of time before some banger/"pro" crook gets his hands on something like a RPG or worse.

[Legbreaker]

I had a friend working in Australian Customs a few years back. Apparently only about 1% of containers are actually searched - there's simply not the manpower available.
However those that are searched can expect to be pulled appart to almost the last nut and bolt - just like a really expensive sports car being imported by a rather obnoxious man once - got stripped to the last component. Oh, and customs aren't obligated to put any of it back together either.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

IMHO, its just a matter of time before some banger/"pro" crook gets his hands on something like a RPG or worse.

RPG's and worse (LPO-50 flamethrower anyone?) have cropped up here way too many times over the years, and I consider those using them to be no better than criminals, regardless of their political inclinations/aspirations. Thats probably why the vast majority of our police vehicles are still armoured....

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

There is a whole bunch of reasons that it seems that APC's are popping up all over, but my personal fav was one I was told back years ago after a random check of containers from the PRC revealed that instead of Barbie Dolls, was case after case of brand spanking new AK's, and people started wondering what they didn't catch on the way in.

IMHO, its just a matter of time before some banger/"pro" crook gets his hands on something like a RPG or worse.

What makes you think they haven't. I am sure they a good supply of automatic weapons.

[Rockwolf66]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

What makes you think they haven't. I am sure they a good supply of automatic weapons.

As far as smuggling goes has anyone else read up on the Sting involving China Ocean Shipping Company and the port of Oakland?

2,000 Type 56 assault Rifles(with some NK marked rifles tossed in) intended for the US streets and the smugglers were giving prices for RPGs mortars and anti-aircraft missiles. Not cool at all as the cops don't have anything that can counter that level of firepower.

I've heard rumors about semi-trucks filled with weapons being found in mexico and one has to wonder where the cartels are getting weapons from outside of stealing them from the federales.

Frankly I'm suprised that I've seen only one M-249 in the hands of Texas law enforcement.

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by Rockwolf66

As far as smuggling goes has anyone else read up on the Sting involving China Ocean Shipping Company and the port of Oakland?

2,000 Type 56 assault Rifles(with some NK marked rifles tossed in) intended for the US streets and the smugglers were giving prices for RPGs mortars and anti-aircraft missiles. Not cool at all as the cops don't have anything that can counter that level of firepower.

I've heard rumors about semi-trucks filled with weapons being found in mexico and one has to wonder where the cartels are getting weapons from outside of stealing them from the federales.

Frankly I'm suprised that I've seen only one M-249 in the hands of Texas law enforcement.

Like I said what makes anyone think they don't already have their hand on said weapons. The only reason they don't use them on the usual basis is it would change the dynamics of what law enforcement would be equipped with and give them idea what to expect.

[Panther Al]

Ok, let's say that the crips and bloods go nuclear on each other, and break out the really heavy stuff. How do you think the gov and local law enforcement would react?