American Midwest Research

[irishboy]

So I've finally managed to get my hands on a few of the modules, but what I've seen has all been focused on either Poland or the East Coast of the US.

I'm interested in trying to put together what occurred in the American Midwest (North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisonsin, Michigan, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio).

I've found information in the BYB (yes, I'm working off the v2.2 timeline) and the American Combat Vehicle Handbook, but was hoping for:

Any additional canon sources that I might have overlooked and/or don't know about.

Any analysis that's already been done, i.e. homebrew timelines that anyone has already worked out involving these areas.

Any insight that anyone is willing to offer about the area, at least as far as rebuilding it in a post-nuclear world goes. I've lived my whole life in this area, so I'm already familiar with it IRL.

Thanks in advance.

[Legbreaker]

Howling Wilderness can also be considered for 2.2, in fact virtually all the 1.0 books dovetail almost seamlessly into 2.x.

[HorseSoldier]

And Howling Wilderness is about the only game in town for that part of the country, if I remember right (though it's just an overview at the national level). The T2K detailed supplements pretty much don't touch that part of the country. Might be some stuff in Challenge that I'm forgetting or didn't see along the way. (Actually I think there is at least one that covers the Wright-Patterson AFB area, now that I think about it.)

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

And Howling Wilderness is about the only game in town for that part of the country, if I remember right (though it's just an overview at the national level). The T2K detailed supplements pretty much don't touch that part of the country. Might be some stuff in Challenge that I'm forgetting or didn't see along the way. (Actually I think there is at least one that covers the Wright-Patterson AFB area, now that I think about it.)

The same author wrote two adventures set in Ohio. He was an Ohio native, I think I recognize his name from local cons. I made a list of Challenge scenarios:
-"Crazy Horse" (#73) is set in South Dakota.
-"A little recon mission (#58) around WPAFB in Ohio
-"Westward ho" (#57) shepherding civilians across Kentucky to Memphis
-"Lima incident" (#56) northwest Ohio, around the Lima tank plant

Off the top of my head, from Howling Wilderness: the region is a lighter-armed version of the rest of the country: no Mexican or other invaders, not much Milgov or Civgov to speak of, and only scattered New America. But lots of marauders and famine.

[irishboy]

I would have thought that the region would be a hotbed, with constant skirmishing. After all, the Civgov capitol is in Omaha, Nebraska & the Milgov capitol is in Colorado, just west of there.

And considering how much of the Midwest was agricultural before the Twilight War began, I was thinking that it would be fairly easy to re-establish small farming villages (50-150 people, everyone shares one tractor, people work a half-day in the communal village fields & a half-day on their own land or projects... just a few ideas off the top of my head).

[Legbreaker]

That may well be the case but info is relatively scarce.

...and then comes along the drought to turn the region into a parched dust bowl...

[HorseSoldier]

I would have thought that the region would be a hotbed, with constant skirmishing. After all, the Civgov capitol is in Omaha, Nebraska & the Milgov capitol is in Colorado, just west of there.

I get the sense from Howling Wilderness that there's a sort of unofficial truce between MilGov and CivGov forces. Part of that might be that both sides are so exhausted they can't handle much beyond local civil support/disaster relief missions. There may be more to it than that, though, since MilGov seems up for major offensive operations against some New America cells (Ozarks) and going after the Warlord of Memphis, who seems to have been a tough nut to crack. It seems like most of the MilGov/CivGov fighting amounted to one side withdrawing from the other with just some minor combat (am I forgetting any pitched fights between units loyal to the two sides?).

Anyway -- that's certainly not to say that the frontier between the two sides in the region is peacable and that patrols don't trade shots daily, just that neither side seems to be looking at going hammer and tongs at one another circa 2000.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

I get the sense from Howling Wilderness that there's a sort of unofficial truce between MilGov and CivGov forces.

Its actually stated quite explicitly in Howling Wilderness that that is the case. I recall a passage where it describes ad hoc meetings between MilGov and CivGov patrols along their shared border in one of the Great Plains states, with soldiers stopping for a drink and a smoke and an exchange of news. Not officially sanctioned but clearly tolerated (and no doubt tacitly encouraged by higher commands if useful intel came out of such meetings).

[Legbreaker]

It also seems difficult to believe that patrols would be shooting at people who were fellow servicemen in the same force just a couple of years before without explicit orders.
There may well be bad blood, but that's more a political thing in my opinion and unlikely to spill over onto the ground. Mind you, emotions do run hot for some people regarding politics....

[irishboy]

Ok, at the unspoken recommendation of everyone involved, I got myself a copy of Howling Wilderness. I skimmed through, and will read it more thoroughly soon.

To shift the topic, does anyone have any insight to what would likely happen (or even just what could happen) throughout this region from 2000 onwards?

[HorseSoldier]

Kind of depends on how you see the Great Plains being effected by the T2K Drought. If it's bad enough that agriculture fails, the area probably slides down from where it is at 2000, until there's not much left but isolated settlements along rivers or other reliable water sources. Given a generation of further downward fall, true nomads or something close would probably turn up, but in the years immediately after 2000 it's probably more isolated towns and fortified ranches on solid water supplies that depend on a mix of limited agriculture and heavy herding.

If that area pretty much goes under, then you've got assorted groups to the west (MilGov and New America north of them, with the Mormons in Utah going it alone again and Mexicans south of them) and maybe a concerntration of CivGov in the Wisconsin/Minnesota/Michigan area, above the MilGov hold on the Mississippi from southern Illinois down towards somewhere in the direction of New Orleans.

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by Targan

Its actually stated quite explicitly in Howling Wilderness that that is the case. I recall a passage where it describes ad hoc meetings between MilGov and CivGov patrols along their shared border in one of the Great Plains states, with soldiers stopping for a drink and a smoke and an exchange of news. Not officially sanctioned but clearly tolerated (and no doubt tacitly encouraged by higher commands if useful intel came out of such meetings).

During the American Civil War there were numerous times where chance meeting of each side patrol would break out into a impromptu drink, smoke, eat, and bullshit session from time to time. The top brass for the most part did their best discourage it, but at the same time what little intel each other was worth not making a big deal out of it.

[HorseSoldier]

And giving troops an order you know they'll just ignore anyway isn't overly good form, as leadership goes, though not all Civil War era leaders may have grasped that point . . .

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

And giving troops an order you know they'll just ignore anyway isn't overly good form, as leadership goes, though not all Civil War era leaders may have grasped that point . . .

Quit picking on Joe Hooker!!!! He wasn't a bad corps commander, just wasn't cut out to command an army....

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Quit picking on Joe Hooker!!!! He wasn't a bad corps commander, just wasn't cut out to command an army....

Especially not with a concussion. That'd screw up anyone's command status.