Gun Trucks

[Webstral]

Realistically, though, what weapons are one likely to find? Central Europe is littered with suitable heavy weapons by mid-2000. Parts of the USSR, Iran, Iraq, North China, Korea also will have a fair stock of weapons for gun trucks. Australia and New Zealand are probably less blessed than the areas where the armies of the world duked it out. CONUS, where my attention is fixed, won't have the same variety or numbers of suitable weapons as Central Europe. Places like Vermont and New Hampshire, which were stripped of troops, weapons, and supplies so that reinforcements could be sent to the Southwest and the Pacific Northwest, will be very short on weapons for gun trucks. Colorado, on the other hand, should have a fair number.

[natehale1971]

The Autocannon from an A-10 MIGHT be able to be put into an armored vehicle that has an offset or rear mounted engine and only be able to be fired directly forward or directly aft depending on how it was mounted on the vehcile, and i think that the vehicle would need some kind of stablization legs like field artillery to act as a counter balance to it it being fired in a burst shot... Unless of course you're talking about using it as single shot or the like. Then it might be able to be on a turret that could fire to the right or left.

Of course you could use that kind of weapon to make the Cobra ASP from the GI JOE action figures, cartoons and comics.

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Webstral

Realistically, though, what weapons are one likely to find? Central Europe is littered with suitable heavy weapons by mid-2000. Parts of the USSR, Iran, Iraq, North China, Korea also will have a fair stock of weapons for gun trucks. Australia and New Zealand are probably less blessed than the areas where the armies of the world duked it out. CONUS, where my attention is fixed, won't have the same variety or numbers of suitable weapons as Central Europe. Places like Vermont and New Hampshire, which were stripped of troops, weapons, and supplies so that reinforcements could be sent to the Southwest and the Pacific Northwest, will be very short on weapons for gun trucks. Colorado, on the other hand, should have a fair number.

Web... there is also a few other sources that you might be able to get retired weapons systems. Tanks, helicopters and the like.. American Legion posts, Veterans of Foreign Wars Chapters, DIsabled American Veterans Chapters and other faternal groups of Veterans. It just hit me that there is a UH-1 Heuy Gunship, a towed howitzer and a Sherman tank sitting in front of the local VFW Chapter. There is a towed heavy AA machinegun infront of the masons Lodge a few blocks away. There are also some field cannons in the park as well.

Some communities might have these kinds of weapon systems that might be able to be refurbished and used.

[Schone23666]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

Web... there is also a few other sources that you might be able to get retired weapons systems. Tanks, helicopters and the like.. American Legion posts, Veterans of Foreign Wars Chapters, DIsabled American Veterans Chapters and other faternal groups of Veterans. It just hit me that there is a UH-1 Heuy Gunship, a towed howitzer and a Sherman tank sitting in front of the local VFW Chapter. There is a towed heavy AA machinegun infront of the masons Lodge a few blocks away. There are also some field cannons in the park as well.

Some communities might have these kinds of weapon systems that might be able to be refurbished and used.

I think Dragooonly made a post about that some time ago....the amount of time and materials needed for refurbishment would depend on factors like how far it's been de-militarized, how long it's been sitting out exposed to the weather or if it's been sitting gathering dust in a museum, etc. Still raises some interesting possibilities, and with at least some not-quite-so-old vehicles and aircraft on display inside certain museums, you wonder if certain things were left intact on the inside just in case it needed to be rolled out again for any particular dire circumstance...

[Schone23666]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

The Autocannon from an A-10 MIGHT be able to be put into an armored vehicle that has an offset or rear mounted engine and only be able to be fired directly forward or directly aft depending on how it was mounted on the vehcile, and i think that the vehicle would need some kind of stablization legs like field artillery to act as a counter balance to it it being fired in a burst shot... Unless of course you're talking about using it as single shot or the like. Then it might be able to be on a turret that could fire to the right or left.

Of course you could use that kind of weapon to make the Cobra ASP from the GI JOE action figures, cartoons and comics.

Hmm, interesting idea. Still gonna need to be a decent sized vehicle to even mount the weapon, ditto when it comes to trying to handle the damn recoil. Have you seen one of those GAU-8 out of the aircraft? It's HUGE! The A-10 is practically built around it like the old P47 aircraft was built around the Pratt and Whitney engine.

Heh, I do like your idea though, assuming it could work. And I really do miss the old days of GI Joe....sure, it seemed silly, but dammit, it was cool as hell! The characters, the vehicles, everything. In fact, a few of those vehicles I thought had an interesting idea or two. Some of their vehicles were in fact loosely based around real-life vehicles that appeared in some form at some point in time.

And yes, I had a crush on Scarlett, Lady Jaye and Cover Girl, so sue me.

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Schone23666

Heh, I do like your idea though, assuming it could work. And I really do miss the old days of GI Joe....sure, it seemed silly, but dammit, it was cool as hell! The characters, the vehicles, everything. In fact, a few of those vehicles I thought had an interesting idea or two. Some of their vehicles were in fact loosely based around real-life vehicles that appeared in some form at some point in time.

Me too. our gaming group actually used the comic book characters as a model for some of the NPCs in our games... their codenames were their callsigns, their real names of course were real names, they had what ever rank they had in the comics...

Some character concepts we used as a starting point for our own characters... my Morrow Project character for instence had served in Vietnman with Snakeeyes, Stormshadow and Stalker during their second tour. And he was actually recruited by the stormshadow ninja clan after the successes of Snakeyes... and when Hardmaster died, Softmaster made a phonecall and said to the person on the otherside of the line... 'we've had a problem... and it looks as if we will only be sending you ONE or our Clan."



Heck, almost all of my American characters have the ficticonal ninja clan tatttoo in their inner left forearms. something that they had done with the rest of their basic combat training or bootcamp buddies did after a drunken night out after graduation!

And yes, I had a crush on Scarlett, Lady Jaye and Cover Girl, so sue me.

I guess then I shouldn't tell you that 'Cover Girl' NPC had actually kissed my character then?

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Schone23666

For what it's worth, since you were talking about weapons on vehicles stripped from aircraft, I remember seeing a pic of a WWII PT boat that had the 37mm autocannon from a P39 Airacobra rigged on a weapon mount on the deck, with traverse and elevation, fire controls, ammunition drum, the works. If they could do it on a boat, pretty sure they could have set up something similiar on a truck as well. Of course, I think you'd find 37mm ammunition to be fairly scarce these days.

Late-war PT boats had a lot of weapons on them. The 80' Elco boats were best suited for such upgrades.

The two twin-.50-cal turrets were normally retained throughout the war. The 20mm Oerlikon was moved from the stern to the foredeck and replaced by a 40mm Bofors. The 37mm M-4 gun salvaged from P-39's was added in the field and later as a more standard piece of equipment (also on the foredeck). An 81mm mortar was often also added on the foredeck (primarily for firing illumination rounds for night fighting. but sometimes for shelling shore targets with HE). A few also had port and starboard racks for 5" rockets.

The foredeck of a late war PT boat could be a very crowded place ...

The four torpedo tubes were replaced with four roll-off torpedoes (which saved a lot of weight) and late in the war two (and sometimes all four) torpedo racks were left empty on patrols (the torpedoes ran too deep for shallow-draft Japanese barges, then the main target of PT boats). Sometimes the rear racks carried depth charges -- not to attack subs, but to break the backs of pursuing Japanese destroyers.

Finally, the smoke generator, carried at the far stern, was normally carried throughout the war.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

Web... there is also a few other sources that you might be able to get retired weapons systems. Tanks, helicopters and the like.. American Legion posts, Veterans of Foreign Wars Chapters, DIsabled American Veterans Chapters and other faternal groups of Veterans. It just hit me that there is a UH-1 Heuy Gunship, a towed howitzer and a Sherman tank sitting in front of the local VFW Chapter. There is a towed heavy AA machinegun infront of the masons Lodge a few blocks away. There are also some field cannons in the park as well.

With some exceptions, the AFV have gone forward to Europe, Korea, the Gulf, or they are in the hands of one of the combat formations still in CONUS. If you were to say that 40th ID in California (for example) should have some former AFV weapons on gun trucks, I'd readily agree. But folks trying to put together gun trucks without the benefit of access to one of the numbered divisions or brigades--or their equivalent in surviving USN or USAF formations--are going to have a much tougher time finding heavy weapons. Vehicles being used as monuments of some sort aren't typically left out with their weapons in a condition to be restored to service without substantial rebuilding. One might be able to salvage some parts from a howitzer in a park, but as a rule the system has been rendered inert to keep industrious ne'erdowells from gaining access to heavy firepower.

[simonmark6]

For areas where there isn't a readily available supply of scrap weapons, improvisations such as the ones used by the British HomeGuard inthe Second World War might appear. Two that could be used on a Guntruck could be:

Northover Projector: Basically a drainpipe launcher that fired standard grenades a longer range. The standard model was single shot but at least one unit hand built a five shot revolving launcher with a hand crank. Not great, but it could make all the difference against people without such weapons. Given some mechanics I assume it might be possible to do something similar firing 40mm grenades, but that's speculation.

Spigot Mortar: A launcher that used a large over-calibre grenade to make a very clumsy RPG. I'm pretty sure that they had HE and Incendiary bombs (apparently the Incendiary one was very dangerous to fire) and there might have been an AT one but I can't remember for sure.

As for other weapons, how hard would it be to make a simple Gatling gun out of rifle barrels and then power it by electricity? If it could be done, the barrels might still burn out quickly, but against lightly armed foes the shock and awe value might be a sufficient deterrent.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Schone23666

I think Dragooonly made a post about that some time ago....the amount of time and materials needed for refurbishment would depend on factors like how far it's been de-militarized, how long it's been sitting out exposed to the weather or if it's been sitting gathering dust in a museum, etc. Still raises some interesting possibilities, and with at least some not-quite-so-old vehicles and aircraft on display inside certain museums, you wonder if certain things were left intact on the inside just in case it needed to be rolled out again for any particular dire circumstance...

The Mississippi National Guard Armory just down the road from my home has an M-60A3 out front as a static display. Since I play darts with the armory's 1st Sergeant, I've had a chance to look over the ole beast. Here is what its missing:

Gunner day, night and auxiliary sights; fire control computer; laser rangefinder; TC day and night sights; engine and trannie; breechblock is welded in place; barrel has three holes drilled through the tube and rebar welded in place, physically blocking the barrel.

Needless to say, it will take quite a bit of work to restore this tank to fighting condition!

[Raellus]

I agree that to properly rig up a true gun truck, one is going to need access to lots of military hardware (i.e. surplus machineguns). This would be only possible in areas where large military units are operating.

The only exception would be one of those places in the U.S.A. where folks hold those big, multi-day shoot-offs with lots of full auto MGs and stuff and there wouldn't likely be such get togethers during WWIII.

SimonMark's improvised gun truck weaponry would also be an exception.

As we've discussed in other threads, getting a military static display vehicle running would require a lot of resources that most civilians just don't have access to, especially after the country has been nuked a couple dozen times. Dragoon500ly's example is a really good one.

[natehale1971]

For some... just the appearence of having a functining tank works. If you have what looks like a tank and can make it move around, raiders would see that and think twice about attacking that community.

[Webstral]

The Shogun in Nevada has some gun trucks, but these are armed with weapons that used to belong to the 99th Security Group based at Nellis AFV and 46th Infantry Division, the latter of which conducted a road march across northern Nevada en route to Sixth US Army in California in 1998. A couple of machine guns on trucks in the Gunryo (the Shogun’s light motorized army) used to belong to the New America cell in Boise, ID and were “liberated” during a raid in 2000.

The Gunryo has no heavy gun trucks like many of the ones pictured earlier in the thread. Fuel is a precious commodity in the shogunate [1]. The vehicles of the Gunryo have to be light. Large, heavily-armored trucks are out of the question. For this reason, almost all of the gun trucks are modified pickups with a pintle mount for a machine gun and welded-on armor for the truck body and bed. Mortar carriers are unarmored, as they are expected to provide fire support from beyond small arms range.

Webstral

1 Like so many organizations throughout the US, the Gunryo uses a blend of partially refined crude oil from surviving wells in areas under its control and biodiesel. A number of small wells operated in central Nevada at the time of the TDM. The Shogun went to great lengths to find survivors who could keep the wells producing and who could do some refining and processing of the crude. The amount produced is miniscule compared to the pre-Exchange demands of Nevada, but then the Shogun’s needs are miniscule compared to the pre-Exchange demands of Nevada. Diesel fuel from the Nevada wells is mixed with biodiesel from alfalfa grown wherever crops can be grown in the shogunate.

[Ronin]

[Ronin]

Was just thinking of some improvised tanks that were used in WWII.
The NI Tank (Russian: Танк НИ Tank NI, abbr. На Испуг, Na Ispug, literally ‘Bluff into retreat’, pronounced /ˈniː/), also called the Odessa tank or Terror Tank, was an improvised Soviet armoured fighting vehicle, based on an STZ-5 agricultural tractor, manufactured in Odessa during the early days of the German-Soviet War. More than anything this tank was intended to frighten and demoralize enemy positions that believed it to be an actual heavy armored vehicle.


NI-1 Diagram: 1 — armored hull, 2 — side armor, 3 — engine compartment, 4 — turret, 5 — fenders, 6 — track armor, 7 — machine gun armor, 8 — DShK machine gun, 9 — hook, 10 — toolbox, 11 — exhaust pipe, 12 — chassis beams, 13 — chassis front, 14 — tow hitch, 15 — idler, 16 — support roller, 17 — driving wheel, 18 — roller, 19 — DT machine gun

The Bob Semple tank was a tank designed by New Zealand Minister of Works Bob Semple during World War II. Originating out of the need to build military hardware from available materials, the tank was built from corrugated iron on a tractor base. Designed and built without formal plans or blueprints, it had numerous design flaws and practical difficulties, and was never put into mass production or used in combat. Despite this, it has become something of an icon of the New Zealand 'do it yourself' mentality.


The KhTZ-16 (Russian: ХТЗ-16) (after the Kharkov Tractor Factory; Russian: Kharkovskiy Traktorniy Zavod) was a Soviet improvised armoured vehicle of the Second World War, built on the chassis of an STZ-3 tractor[1]. The vehicles were built in Kharkiv until the factory was evacuated to the east, at which time production moved to Stalingrad. No less than 809 vehicles were planned, but no more than about 60 were actually built. Some vehicles were used in the fighting around Kharkov in October 1941, but were quickly lost.
The vehicle was operated by a crew of two, and armed with a 45mm anti-tank gun and a 7.62mm DT or Degtyarev light machine gun mounted in a fixed superstructure

[Ronin]

And one last one, cause I cant resist.

WWII Bedford truck with a WWI COW 37mm gun. (Automatic cannon fed from a 5 round clip)

[LBraden]

I think someone forgot to post one of the most sensible, realistic and ultra safe gun-trucks that the British have EVER made on their home soil....




and YES, that is concrete.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_c...armoured_lorry

[Webstral]

Then, too, there are the gunboats of the US Navy Infantry Battalion 2, known in its area of operations, San Francisco Bay, as Blue Two. Unlike the Gunryo, which has a very limited number of machine guns and a few mortars for its improvised gun trucks, Blue Two has the advantage of operating with support from the Navy base at Alameda. The selection of weapons is much better, and the availability of materials and technical specialists means that the various gunboats of Blue Two are well-designed, well-built, and well-armed [1].

Although the gunboats of Blue Two vary considerably in dimensions, armament, and draft, all combine direct fire weapons with indirect fire weapons. Usually, the gunboats of Blue Two have a principle gun or guns, such as a 25mm autocannon or twin-mounted .50 caliber machine guns. The primary gun usually is mounted in a full turret built for that purpose or a high-walled firing position with a gun shield for the crew. Secondary guns typically are M60 or M240B machine guns fired from pintle mounts behind gun shields. The most common indirect fire weapon is a 60mm mortar, although several Mk19 AGL are in use as well.

The troop carriers also carry a machine gun, but their role is not to engage in combat. The troop carriers of Blue Two are intended to put the naval infantry ashore, then withdraw while the gunboats provide direct fire support.


1 None of the gunboats used by Blue Two are custom-built. All are pre-Exchange vessels that have been modified.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Was just thinking of some improvised tanks that were used in WWII.

<snip>

The Bob Semple tank was a tank designed by New Zealand Minister of Works Bob Semple during World War II. Originating out of the need to build military hardware from available materials, the tank was built from corrugated iron on a tractor base. Designed and built without formal plans or blueprints, it had numerous design flaws and practical difficulties, and was never put into mass production or used in combat. Despite this, it has become something of an icon of the New Zealand 'do it yourself' mentality.

The Right Honourable Robert 'Bob' Semple was my father's father's father (my paternal great grandfather (he's where I got my middle name from)). He was originally a miner from Ballarat in Australia, at which time he was also a fairly well-known bare knuckle prize fighter. That's why his nickname in the New Zealand Labour Party was "Fightin' Bob Semple". He was personally involved in the design and construction of the Bob Semple Tank, as in he drove down to the rail works where he used to work before becoming a cabinet minister, told the workers there what he had in mind and personally oversaw the project.

Great grandad was a tall, imposing man, scary-looking in all the old photos on my dad's wall including one in which he stands in a pugilist's pose, stripped to the waist and with a big, handlebar moustache, photographed right before a fight. It's probably pretty obvious that I'm very proud that my paternal ancestor designed and built his own tank, even if it was a completely crap tank.

[dragoon500ly]

This thread has been a lot of fun! But one item that seems to be missing are the various bank armored cars. They are already armored to resist small arms fire, have the beefed up engine/trannie needed to move at a decent speed and are already fitted with firing ports that will accept rifles/shotguns/SAWs. They come in panel vans, dual rear axle and even in eighteen wheeler configs....and there are a lot of them available.

Just to name one company, Wells Fargo, they have over twenty ten wheel armored cars serving just the casinos in Gulfport and Biloxi, Mississippi. The major local bank, Hancock Bank, adds another dozen armored panel vans that service their various local branches. So some 32 armored cars, each capable of carrying a short squad, would give a militia the ability to move quite a few troops.

[bobcat]

and one cannot forget SWAT vans. many also have armored capability.(and built in weapons racks)

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

The Autocannon from an A-10 MIGHT be able to be put into an armored vehicle that has an offset or rear mounted engine and only be able to be fired directly forward or directly aft depending on how it was mounted on the vehcile, and i think that the vehicle would need some kind of stablization legs like field artillery to act as a counter balance to it it being fired in a burst shot... Unless of course you're talking about using it as single shot or the like. Then it might be able to be on a turret that could fire to the right or left.

Of course you could use that kind of weapon to make the Cobra ASP from the GI JOE action figures, cartoons and comics.

Just a little off topic but GI Joe made joined the Army I was dispointed when I arrived at basic and got no cool laser rifle, no cool code name, or a box hand grenades...on the pluse side the food live up to it rep...hmmm chip beef on toast

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Just a little off topic but GI Joe made joined the Army I was dispointed when I arrived at basic and got no cool laser rifle, no cool code name, or a box hand grenades.

Knowing is half the battle... that doesn't leave much room for lasers and other cool stuff like what you wanted. See the diagram below for details.

[Raellus]

I want that on a T-shirt!

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Targan

The Right Honourable Robert 'Bob' Semple was my father's father's father (my paternal great grandfather (he's where I got my middle name from)). He was originally a miner from Ballarat in Australia, at which time he was also a fairly well-known bare knuckle prize fighter. That's why his nickname in the New Zealand Labour Party was "Fightin' Bob Semple". He was personally involved in the design and construction of the Bob Semple Tank, as in he drove down to the rail works where he used to work before becoming a cabinet minister, told the workers there what he had in mind and personally oversaw the project.

Great grandad was a tall, imposing man, scary-looking in all the old photos on my dad's wall including one in which he stands in a pugilist's pose, stripped to the waist and with a big, handlebar moustache, photographed right before a fight. It's probably pretty obvious that I'm very proud that my paternal ancestor designed and built his own tank, even if it was a completely crap tank.

That's super cool. I just come from a long line of dirt farmers

[natehale1971]

My family goes back to the days the United States were just a bunch of seperate British colonies... Our anscetor Richard Dobbs Spaight SR was elected to represent North Carolina at the Constutional Convention, where he was one of the voices who pressured for the Bill of Rights before the Consitution went out of ratification. To make sure that the limits to the Federal Government wouldn't allow for a government to be able to take Rights away from the citizens. He also was the Governor of the State of North Carolina and served in the US Congress. A feat that his son Richard Dobbs Spaight JR accomplished as well. Our family also is amazed about the fact that Richard Dobbs Spaight SR. was killed in duel...

anther member of our bloodline was the Prime Minister of Beligum (the part of the family who spells the family name Spaak). Another had led a coup in Fiji... We had been told that part of the family living in the UK had a title and peerage... but we've not been able to confirm that.

Unfortunately (or fortuately) for us... our blood family isn't that large, and no matter how you spell the name, we're releated. and for some reason, people just can't seem to pronouce our name right!

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

Unfortunately (or fortuately) for us... our blood family isn't that large, and no matter how you spell the name, we're releated. and for some reason, people just can't seem to pronouce our name right!

I get that all the time with my last name, Mulcahy. Seems like an easy name to pronounce to me, but almost no one does. I know I'm getting old because, used to get it stick in people's head's what the pronunciation is, I just say, "Like Father Mulcahy on MASH." Today, almost no one under 30 or so has seen MASH or know what MASH is!

[Targan]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

Another member of our bloodline was the Prime Minister of Beligum (the part of the family who spells the family name Spaak). Another had led a coup in Fiji... We had been told that part of the family living in the UK had a title and peerage... but we've not been able to confirm that.

The clanhead of the Scottish clan my paternal bloodline belongs to (the Sempills) is a baron (the clan has held baronies and baronetcies for 3 or 4 centuries). My paternal bloodline has written records going back to the 1300s in Renfrewshire. The clanhold's primary seat, Castle Craigievar, is one of the finest and best preserved castles in Scotland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Sempill

One of the Sempill Barons was the General in charge of the left flank at the Battle of Culloden, commanding the 25th Regiment, which went on to become the King's Own Scottish Borderers ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27...tish_Borderers ). My ancestors fought on the side of Robert the Bruce and subsequent Scottish kings including at the Battle of Sauchieburn, the Battle of Flodden Field and many battles in the Anglo-Scottish War during the 16th century as war band leaders and military commanders.

[Legbreaker]

*YAWN*
My great, great (add in a couple) grandfather was Count of Magdeburg up until about 200 years ago. Found himself supporting the loosing side in one of the many "squabbles" and met with a "hunting accident" while being "escorted" by two armed men he'd never met before.
My surname in old Germanic (from him) means "King".

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

My great, great (add in a couple) grandfather was Count of Magdeburg up until about 200 years ago.

Cool!

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Found himself supporting the loosing side in one of the many "squabbles" and met with a "hunting accident" while being "escorted" by two armed men he'd never met before.

Not so cool. Is there more to that story? Sounds fascinating.