A new (fictional) British unit

[James Langham]

A new unit for TW2000 made up of Poles living in the UK (best read with 27 (Polish SAS).

[rcaf_777]

Nice Work


Just an FYI the Polish fought under the Canadian durring WWII and there many Polish Vet Legions here in Canada and several large Polish communities in Canada, when I joined the CF in 1994 many of the guys I ended up going through basic were of Polish background, one had recived alot of training under the old system when inducting to the "Youth Corps"

[James Langham]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Nice Work


Just an FYI the Polish fought under the Canadian durring WWII and there many Polish Vet Legions here in Canada and several large Polish communities in Canada, when I joined the CF in 1994 many of the guys I ended up going through basic were of Polish background, one had recived alot of training under the old system when inducting to the "Youth Corps"

Really useful info, how strong is the feeling of Polish identity? Would a Polish militia unit be feasible? If so where would it likely be recruited from?

[simonmark6]

Lovely write up again, James, thanks for sharing. I may have missed it when I was reading, but it might be nice to have a rational as to why the Polish were placed into one regiment rather than being absorbed into INTEL and shared out amongst the Recon units in Poland itself.

The SAS unit made up of Poles makes perfect sense, they'll be behind lines and all need to speak the lingo. It might be something like the fact that HM Gov wanted the propaganda coup of having a "Polish" unit fighting for the West (similar to the British SS unit in WW2). Initial theory might have said that the unit would never be deployed on Polish soil for fear of retribution (this would obviously collapse when the fighting got desperate).

[James Langham]

Originally Posted by simonmark6

Lovely write up again, James, thanks for sharing. I may have missed it when I was reading, but it might be nice to have a rational as to why the Polish were placed into one regiment rather than being absorbed into INTEL and shared out amongst the Recon units in Poland itself.

The SAS unit made up of Poles makes perfect sense, they'll be behind lines and all need to speak the lingo. It might be something like the fact that HM Gov wanted the propaganda coup of having a "Polish" unit fighting for the West (similar to the British SS unit in WW2). Initial theory might have said that the unit would never be deployed on Polish soil for fear of retribution (this would obviously collapse when the fighting got desperate).

Thanks for the comments, always useful to have feedback.

A fair number of British Poles would be in Military Intelligence (there is a note that a number who failed selection for 27 SAS were so used) but I will expand this to make it clearer.

I actually see the unit clamoring to fight in Poland and the Polish Government in exile will be pushing for this.

Bear in mind that few if any will have actually ever been to Poland so the local knowledge and slang, etc will be missing making them harder to fit in as Poles when speaking to locals (although they could probably pass amongst other Pact troops).

[simonmark6]

I could absolutely see the unit being eager to fight in the Old Country but I think the government would be initially reluctant for PR purposes. There will be worries about what would happen to them if captured etc.

This would explain why they were deployed so late to the Polish Theatre.

[James Langham]

Again feedback welcome.

Simon - hope this makes things a little clearer.

[Louied]

Hey James,

Great write up, just a suggestion for the last paragraph. By being renamed "The King's...." makes it a royal regiment (for instance the old King's Regiment was a royal regiment along with The Queen's Regiment. Just prior to the recent FAS there was much talk of The Highlanders (Seaforths, Gordons, and Camerons) being renamed as one of its constituent regiments,The Queen's Own Highlanders (Seaforths and Camerons), was royal). So perhaps they were told by the Army Dress Committee to remove the crown and when King Charles heard this he bestowed the "King's" title to thwart them ??? (it has happened before with a reigning sovereign).

My two cents.

[James Langham]

Updated again.

Louisd -thanks for the idea.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by James Langham

Really useful info, how strong is the feeling of Polish identity? Would a Polish militia unit be feasible? If so where would it likely be recruited from?

I think that it would'nt be a big stretch to see Free Polish units beeign recruited from the UK, US and Canada, the US could supply weapons and training, Germany also might rasie some Polish units but hard to say what is movties migth be?

Based on what I found most of Polish Persons I might have huge attchment to the Poland and still speak Polish and Russian

[James Langham]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

I think that it would'nt be a big stretch to see Free Polish units beeign recruited from the UK, US and Canada, the US could supply weapons and training, Germany also might rasie some Polish units but hard to say what is movties migth be?

Based on what I found most of Polish Persons I might have huge attchment to the Poland and still speak Polish and Russian

US & Canadian units would be logical, maybe a joint unit. What do others think? Some would be assigned to SF, not 100% sure the US would go for Polish units preferring to integrate (this might give a good contrast) - especially as the Polish Free Government would want control of them.

Germany could be an interesting wild card, not sure how wide the recruiting base would be though.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by James Langham

What do others think?

I don't buy it personally. I'm just unconvinced that a NATO country would raise such units instead of placing said recruits in pre-existing units. On that note, how many Iraqi combat units were raised within the United States Army?

[Rainbow Six]

Rather than the British, US, Canadians, etc raising new formations to serve in their own armies, I'm wondering whether there would be any prospect of the Allies trying to raise an actual Polish Army in exile loyal to the Polish Government in Exile which was based in London right up until 1990 IRL. Obviously "Army" would probably be a relative term - strength wise it might only consist of a handful of Battalions of emigres from throughout Western Europe and North America, perhaps at best a Division, however it might have considerable political and propaganda value, particularly if efforts were being made to encourage Polish units to defect en masse to the west...Politically it makes the NATO push into Poland easier to represent as a liberation rather than a (German led / instigated) invasion. I'm thinking the spin could be something along the lines of the pro Western Polish soldiers being presented as fighting for the legitimate (as far as the Allies were concerned) Government of Poland to free their oppressed homeland from the Communists.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

I don't buy it personally. I'm just unconvinced that a NATO country would raise such units instead of placing said recruits in pre-existing units. On that note, how many Iraqi combat units were raised within the United States Army?

I'm in agreement with this. There may be special units created for particular tasks and missions, but that's about it.
Also, the Polish Government in exile was IRL little more than a figurehead and one which nobody took any serious notice of. Even in T2K, I just don't see them having any authority or power and what little there was would evaporate with the nukes of 1997.
Pre nuke, the propaganda value would be minimal, and could even be detrimental (some may see it as "arming the enemy"). Post nuke, well with television and radio out of commission and most people simply more interested in where their next unirradiated meal is coming from rather than the fact a few ex-pat Poles have formed a military unit....

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I'm in agreement with this. There may be special units created for particular tasks and missions, but that's about it.
Also, the Polish Government in exile was IRL little more than a figurehead and one which nobody took any serious notice of. Even in T2K, I just don't see them having any authority or power and what little there was would evaporate with the nukes of 1997.
Pre nuke, the propaganda value would be minimal, and could even be detrimental (some may see it as "arming the enemy"). Post nuke, well with television and radio out of commission and most people simply more interested in where their next unirradiated meal is coming from rather than the fact a few ex-pat Poles have formed a military unit....

Any authority / power the Polish Government in Exile has (or hasn't) in T2K would in all probability be entirely dependent on the NATO allies. Isn't there mention in some of the canon material of NATO setting a Polish Government in Poland circa January 01st 1997? I still think a "Free Polish Army" (for lack of a better name) is a valid alternative to the raising of new Polish units to serve in NATO armies.

[Legbreaker]

On the first day of the new year, the NATO heads of state declared their support for a Polish government in exile, headed by a committee of Polish emigres. While the news was greeted with scattered worker uprisings in Poland, the majority of the Polish Army remained loyal to the central government, and open resistance was soon crushed. An underground movement began forming, however, and by spring small guerrilla bands, leavened by Polish Army deserters, began to harass Warsaw Pact supply convoys and installations.

Sure, they declared support, but that's a far cry from actively providing supplies, funds, weapons, etc.
Even so, later in the year when the nukes were tossed about, their (relatively minor) importance is virtually destroyed. We can see in the books that by 2000, they've only got 650 troops split between the two free brigades, and one of those brigades is on the verge of going their own way.

Perhaps these two units are the ones that were formed by ex-pat volunteers along with more local deserters?

[simonmark6]

Whilst I can see a better use for Polish speakers than lumping them in a single regiment, there is a precedent for the UK to do such a thing and therefore the unit as posited could exist in the TK2 universe. the argument that the US isn't raising units of US Iraqis is an interesting one but not 100% relevant because they were certainly raising a lot of Iraqi units in Iraq.

Would the US and Canada raise such units? I doubt it in the US but Canada might as it has more of the British "local regiment" tradition. Especially if teh British version seemed successful.

[Badbru]

Whilst I do like the write-up I can only really see it happening in the UK because of the precedence. What one has to remember is that most emigres are essentially settled refugees who fled their home country precisely to avoid war, conflict, and/or persecution. Those few who feel deeply passionate enough about their home country may return to fight for it, but they're more likely to do it by joining their adoptive nations military if that'll put them there, or, going back and joining a resistance style force incountry. We've seen this in the independence wars in the former Yugoslavia where ethnic Bosnians, Serbs, and Croats from all over the world returned to Yugoslavia and joined their respective malitias, armies, what have you. I suspect you'd find alot of fluent, and strangely accented english speakers in those two Polish Free Legions.