Encounter Group #22 Shipmen

[ArmySGT.]

Name: Shipmen
Geographical Location: 6
H&M Average:12
H&M Range 6-15
Number found : 10-30
Tech Level: D
Power / Resources : Steam, some combustion engines / fishing and trading
Weapons: Some breech loading cannon, good firearms, catapults.
Special Attributes: Water based, well defended ships.

Remnants of the Great Lakes shipping industry. Operating out of their ore freighters these people have established a fairly large trading empire. Good people who work hard for a living and respect people who do as well.

Not in my opinion the most plausible group as presented. Would any steel hulled ore freighter be afloat after 150 years? Late steam age tech is plausible as there are many more examples in museums and collections in the eastern portions of the US.

While it seems neat that they would live on ships full time criss crossing the Great Lakes region. Honestly they would still need a port and a land operation. Somewhere to grow food, and salt fish. Somewhere to build new boats and make parts. Somewhere that land based Traders can find them. Somewhere to winter over before the ice sets in and the fierce storms begin. Lighthouses would be important to the Shipmen.

[mikeo80]

Hmm.

I have a few thoughts on Shipmen

1) Steel Hulled Ships after 150 years. Yes it is possible. Just. IF and that is a big IF, lots of maintenance is spent on these surviving ships. I point to the U.S.S. Texas and the U.S.S. Olympia. Both 100+ years old.

So this fact implies a port system as ArmySGT points out. And a functioning steel manufactoring system to repair the steel ships. Which also implies a fairly well developed economy in the area since the steel plants can run, this implies a food surplus to feed the steel workers.

To further compound the problem with steel hull ships, motive power? Steam power would be available, IMHO. Powered by coal from Ohio, Pennsylvania, Indiana, etc.

2) Wood hull ships. A much more survivable level of tech. Wood woorking is still an art and a craft that does imply food surplus. With the "New Ice Age" decending on the Great Lakes region, food surplus is going to become harder and harder to achieve.

Wood hull can also imply sail power or steam. I can see either form being available. Sail is cheap, steam gets you to places sail can not. SO both have a place at the discussion table.

3) Shipmen in other areas. I played a game once based in the North Carolina - South Carolina area. There was a small, but functional wooden ship fleet based in the Wilmington NC area. (Per TM1-1, missed by any nuclear gifts.)

Most of these ships were involved in fishing, but some were trading ships that plied the waterways of the shallow inlets and sounds of this part of the USA. Largest ship that was sighted in the game was a 400 ton "Coast Guard" vessel. Armed with four (4) six pounder black powder muzzle loading cannon. This ship would help ships in distress, search and rescue, anti-piracy, and tax collection. The local govt funded the "Coast Guard" with a 1% tax on all shipped cargo. There was some greed and graft involved, but for the most part, this was a system that worked, and worked rather well.

My $0.02

Mike

[dragoon500ly]

My own viewpoint is that wooden ships with sail/steam would be more likely to be encountered. 150-year old steel ships would require a higher tech level simply to be sustainable. So steel ships would certainly catch a team's attention.

[Matt W]

There are several ships on the Great Lakes that are 70 years old (cold fresh water isn't as bad for steel as seawater) and there a few that are even older.

However, 150 year-old ships are likely to be uncommon. It seems plausible that there would be some sort of manufacturing industry. In my opinion, Superior in Wisconsin would be a good location for this. Possibly Fraser Shipyards

http://www.frasershipyards.com/

[ArmySGT.]

This actually starts to make them more plausible. Where exactly are the docks and shipyards these are being built and the ship builders themselves?

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/...s_to_race.html

[mmartin798]

This shows the major dry docks and shipyards currently on the Great Lakes.

http://www.tmacog.org/Transportation..._Dry_Docks.pdf

I would also not be so quick to write off steel ships. Iron and steel were preferred instead of wood for ship hulls as early as the 1870's. Granted we would not see many ships in the 300m range, but with the wealth of iron ore still in the region it is possible for smaller ships to be built powered by wind and steam. Take fine vessel for instance:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Great_Britain

[ArmySGT.]

So they need coal, coke, kerosene, crude oil, or charcoal for steam boilers.

Carpenters to log trees...... Probably a smelter and foundry.... Then there are mechanical trades building parts. Probably a network of guides and lighthouses.

Shipmen can be a bigger deal. The shippers in a triangle trade scheme that operates a few months a year before ice and fierce storms makes sailing unprofitable. Think of all the industries and trade skills just to keep a ship afloat not even considering the crew.

[mmartin798]

When we look at early industry on Lake Superior, that is exactly what we see. Iron ore was mined from the Marquette Ridge, taken by rail to the harbor in Marquette and loaded onto freighters, wooden and otherwise. The iron ore was sailed about 40 miles East to Munising. There it was converted to pig iron using charcoal from local trees and limestone from the cliffs behind the blast furnace. This process could start up again, though some of the infrastructure would have to be rebuilt. They could then add a finery forge in Munising as well to make plates and then rivet and weld a hull together at a dry dock. If K.I. Sawyer AFB can be made into a farming community, you can probably support this.

Not saying this would be easy, but it is possible.

[ArmySGT.]

Funny you should mention K.I. Sawyer AFB... I mentioned this in the Damocles module thread.... Something Damocles would need, or covet, to reintegrate itself into the DoD infrastructure.

[mmartin798]

This is a picture of what remains of the ore dock in Marquette's lower harbor. Ore cars were pushed on top of it and the ore dumped under them. Then the ore was loaded into ship's holds using conveyor belts operated between the pillars. Built in 1931, it operated until 1971. In 1968, it loaded over 1 million tons of iron ore.