T2000: WHITEOUT (v2.2 PBP Campaign)

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes

As a resident of Anchorage at the time, I always thought it was goofy that the 6th's light fighters were deployed and defence of the Last Frontier was left to the Mountain troops and a bunch of Lower 48 weekend warriors, but whatever. Turns out I wasn't the one it had to make sense to.

Alaska wasn't exactly on the front lines or at real risk of being invaded. Makes sense therefore for reservist troops to take over from a regular unit for garrison duties. Hindsight of course tells us Alaska would soon become yet another front for the US and it's allies (in this case Canada) to worry itself sick over.

[M-Type]

Speaking of Canada, does anyone have any TO&E information on them? Didn't see them represented in the NATO guide (can't say I looked hard ), and I know later in the Alaskan Campaign they team up with American stragglers to hold the border, so I can see them counter-attacking back into Alaska, full force.

Not that that information is needed now, but I was curious.

[Olefin]

There is a Challenge Magazine article I havent seen on Canada (Canada 2000 in issue 30) - does anyone have that?

Other than that there is only the one entry I have seen on Canada in Going Home with the unit that is stuck in Poland.

I know there are other mentions too in Challenge Magazine but I havent seen them either - i.e. Red Maple and Native Canadian Ranger Regiment

[boogiedowndonovan]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes

I'm one of those token Alaskan types, too. I think Grimace relo'd a while back. I left in '89 myself. Nice place to visit, but winter gets old quick.

The 6th ID (L) was stationed at Richardson & Wainwright during that era. Canon has them airlifted to Norway early in the war and later withdrawing to Germany. Not that it matters.

As a resident of Anchorage at the time, I always thought it was goofy that the 6th's light fighters were deployed and defense of the Last Frontier was left to the Mountain troops and a bunch of Lower 48 weekend warriors, but whatever. Turns out I wasn't the one it had to make sense to.

Yeah, sending the 10th to Alaska/Canada instead of the 6th was one of the T2k things that had me scratching my head. I would think you'd want the 6th to go since they'd practically be in their own backyard. Easily fixed in my campaign though

Originally Posted by M-Type

Speaking of Canada, does anyone have any TO&E information on them? Didn't see them represented in the NATO guide (can't say I looked hard ), and I know later in the Alaskan Campaign they team up with American stragglers to hold the border, so I can see them counter-attacking back into Alaska, full force.

Not that that information is needed now, but I was curious.

It's in the 1st edition NATO Vehicle Guide. If memory serves correct, Canada was left out of the 2nd edition NATO guide. I don't know why though.

The Canadians on this board can provide much better info that what is in the 1st edition. It left out most of the Canadian militia (US National Guard/Reserve equivalent). There is also a Challenge T2k article floating around about Canadian Rangers, which is a reserve force that serves as guides and scouts when mobilized. A good number of Canadian Rangers are First Nation people (Native American/Indians in American speak).

Oh and the Anglo German brigade comprised of British and German units stationed in Canada.

-bdd

[Olefin]

Keep in mind that the US troops in Alaska were making attacks into Siberia before the Soviets invaded Alaska

if you look at the US Army Vehicle Guide those weekend warriors were pretty darn good troops

i.e.

1ST INFANTRY BRIGADE (Arctic Recon)
An Alaskan National Guard Brigade. The brigade came into
federal service on 7/3/96 and assumed responsibility for local
security and long range recon patrols along the Bering Straits.
Throughout the last half of 1996 and the first half of 1997, the
brigade mounted aggressive deep patrols across the Bering Strait
into Soviet territory and fought numerous small actions with
Soviet arctic forces.

In June of 1997 the brigade repulsed a
number of Soviet commando raids across the strait but was forced
to withdraw westward after Soviet arctic mechanized units
crossed to the U.S. side.

Now if you are talking about the weekend warriors of the 47th that is a different issue

i.e.

47TH INFANTRY DIVISION
A National Guard Division consisting of the 1st (Minnesota
NG), 34th (Iowa NG), and 66th (Illinois NG) Brigades. The division
came into federal service on 11/1/96 and began deploying
by air and sea to Fort Richardson, Alaska where it relieved the
6th Infantry Division (Light) of internal security duties. In July
of 1 997 outposts of the division were attacked by Soviet Spetznaz
units and shortly thereafter by elements of two arctic
mechanized brigades.

[Olefin]

You are right about the NATO guide - missed that in my first search. One thing is that it mentions Canadian troops in action against the Soviets on the Pacific coast but then has them in the Maritimes and not the Pacific.

I think that they meant to put them in British Columbia and not the Maritimes.

[M-Type]

Originally Posted by Olefin

I think that they meant to put them in British Columbia and not the Maritimes.

They just decided "Hell with this war!" and boogied on out.

[Olefin]

Actually I think they just messed up when they edited it - if I remember correctly those units they said were in the Maritimes are mentioned in other canon areas as being the units that engaged the Soviets in the Pacific.

if they did boogie thats a heck of a boogie - cant go much further unless you grab a trans-Atlantic ship.

[Cdnwolf]

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.p...ght=Canada+OOB

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.p...ght=Canada+OOB

[HorseSoldier]

For a mech squad, the previously mentioned 47th ID is a more likely source -- at least for the vehicle. Of course, after the nukes and the fighting in theater, you could easily have some or all of one of 47th ID's mechanized battalions cut off with the rest of X Corps instead of withdrawn to the Pac Northwest.

Also, the T2K 10th Mountain Division was supposed to have one light motorized infantry battalion, which includes a company of LAV-25s, so that's an option. Or go with the idea that said battalion or the division's also-TK world light tank battalion got some M113s during reconstitution after the fighting in Norway.

Yeah, sending the 10th to Alaska/Canada instead of the 6th was one of the T2k things that had me scratching my head. I would think you'd want the 6th to go since they'd practically be in their own backyard.

10th Mtn got sent to Alaska as an emergency reinforcement. Going by the unit histories, 10th Mtn was out of the line reconstituting for a few months. 6th ID(L) was getting chewed up trying to force the Litsa River Line way up north in the same time frame.

Of the two divisions, 10th Mountain was the more capable option at the time when they needed troops for AK.

That said, I question the idea of taking 6th ID(L) out of Alaska at all -- in a universe where the Soviets were actually capable of pumping a couple Armies across the Pacific into Alaska and Pacific Canada, I'm increasingly skeptical about the logic of having less than a Corps or so to meet them there.

My personal order of battle for the region I've been pushing around on my hard drive for a while is X Corps made up of 6th ID(L), 47th ID reinforcing on mobilization, with 207th Infantry Group (Scout) and 208th Infantry Group (Lt Motorized) from the AK National Guard and 2nd Canadian Division.

AK National Guard notes: In real life, the AK ARNG at the height of the Reagan years had six infantry battalions. One was a round-out unit for 6th ID (in addition to 205th Infantry Brigade, USAR). Another one (maybe even two) were mechanized formations (taking over the heavy role back in the day, I think, when 171st and 172nd Brigades reroled from mechanized to light in the early 70s. The remainder were very light organizations with a special MTOE for the "Scout" status.

The six battalions are where I think GDW got their "1st & 2nd Infantry (Arctic Recon) Brigades," based on a list somewhere showing six battalions under 207th Inf Gp.

Personally, I sort of split the difference between GDW and reality and posit the post-1991 continued military buildup in the T2K timeline (1st ed) you get 6th ID(L) replacing the AK ARNG round-out battalion with 1-172nd Infantry (Mtn) out of Vermont. With six battalions to work with, the AK ARNG fields 207th Infantry Group (Scout) as a true light infantry brigade, and 208th Infantry Group (Lt Motorized) basically filling the armored cavalry role for the the 6th ID + 47th ID corps sized formation that US Army Alaska (USARAL back then, USARAK nowadays) would field on full mobilization.

208th has a specialized MTOE consisting of two SUSV-mobile light motorized infantry battalions (AK NG) and a light armored/assault gun battalion and artillery battalion out of the Minnesota NG (the armor battalion, 2-94 AR is fictional, but the artillery battalion is one of the ones on the Nato 1989 orbat which doesn't seem to otherwise have a home anyway).

I'm still working out "who" the PCs should be. There's the 501st Infantry Regiment (Airborne) or the 207th Infantry Group (Alaska National Guard).

As other noted, 1-501st was part of 6th ID back then, and goes where they go, if they leave theater. (When 6th ID gets to Europe, I could see them getting rolled into SETAF, possibly forming or augmenting the 173rd Abn to Africa campaign idea . . .)

207th had an airborne reconnaissance unit (what would today be a LRSC, but back then I think they were called the 207th Light Recon Company (Abn) -- though by '95 "Long Range Surveillance" as a unit type might have been in the works) as well.

[M-Type]

Hmmm...that's a lot to mull over. I'll have to dip a little deeper and stir something up.

Worse comes to worse, everyone is Inuits! Dugouts versus Soviet Mechanized Divisions go!

(Granted, that just be the 207th Scouts, but whatever)

[HorseSoldier]

Inuit are Canadian, technically. Alaska eskimos are Inupiat (norther/northwestern part of the state) or Yupik (western Alaska). Both are very well represented in the modern day AK ARNG and the 207th back in the day, as well as Aleuts, Tlingits, and Athabascans (plus whatever other groups I'm maybe forgetting).

Lot of stories from back in the day about guys out in the Bush communities taking stuff home from drill -- like M60 machineguns -- just in case the Russians showed up unexpected. (And probably because if you could take a light machinegun home and keep it in your closet, wouldn't you?).

Also some stories floating around about when they started reorganizing the AK ARNG after the end of the Cold War and shutting down some of the armories in smaller Bush villages (some stayed open even if not needed because they doubled as town hall, the local jail, community centers, or the local school's gym). I'm told they found a half dozen M14s in one that no one seemed to have paperwork on anymore, have heard similar stories about a BAR being found in the same sort of circumstances. No idea if that's real or mythology, but it is definitely a whole different world out in that part of Alaska, for the National Guard and everything else.

[M-Type]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

...And probably because if you could take a light machinegun home and keep it in your closet, wouldn't you?.

Most definitely. Just in case y'know? You can never be too prepared.