Tanks v. AFVs

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I changed the thread title as I didn't want to conflate "tank v. apc" to mean how would each fare in a battle versus one another.

[pmulcahy11b]

A trick we used as infantrymen was, if a decent depth of trees available, to sucker the DATs into the trees, where they had to move slower and usually couldn't turn their turrets far because their main guns got in the way. (It's amazing how often DATs fell for that one; my platoon sergeant at Ft Stewart told me it was an old trick when he came in the Army.) After that, you could tackle then with LAWs, Dragons, thrown grenades, or you could shoot out vision blocks. If you were mech and had Bradleys, that was a plus (though they could have the same problems with their autocannons).

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

I changed the thread title as I didn't want to conflate "tank v. apc" to mean how would each fare in a battle versus one another.

Yep, I fell for the old title just a few moments ago.

[The Rifleman]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

A trick we used as infantrymen was, if a decent depth of trees available, to sucker the DATs into the trees, where they had to move slower and usually couldn't turn their turrets far because their main guns got in the way. (It's amazing how often DATs fell for that one; my platoon sergeant at Ft Stewart told me it was an old trick when he came in the Army.) After that, you could tackle then with LAWs, Dragons, thrown grenades, or you could shoot out vision blocks. If you were mech and had Bradleys, that was a plus (though they could have the same problems with their autocannons).

I like that idea. I'll keep that in back of my head. I was an E-5 in an Infantry battalion and we went up against 1-34 Armor at Hoensfelds. The hardest part about fighting them was the thermals are so good that you've got to get a real good hiding spot and you got to wait until they are past you. Quite scary knowing that a screw up and you're flat.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by The Rifleman

I like that idea. I'll keep that in back of my head. I was an E-5 in an Infantry battalion and we went up against 1-34 Armor at Hoensfelds. The hardest part about fighting them was the thermals are so good that you've got to get a real good hiding spot and you got to wait until they are past you. Quite scary knowing that a screw up and you're flat.

Well, as you know, you do a lot of making lemons into lemonade when you're the PBI.

[dragoon500ly]

On the other hand, the ability of an M-1 to sneak through the woods could always be counted upon to surprise the infantry. We actually took a section of four M-1s up on of Hohenfels razor-back ridges and sat on top, looking down into an infantry battalion as they prepared an anti-armor ambush for our squadron.

We sat up there, laughing our arses off, as the umpires drove around and "god-gunned" just about every vehicle that battalion. Gotta love simulated artillery!

At the end, when the umpires revealed to the PBI that they had been under direct observation by tanks. The LTC screamed that there were no tanks to his front...the look on his face when we crashed through the trees upslope and to his rear was a true Kodak moment!

[The Rifleman]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

On the other hand, the ability of an M-1 to sneak through the woods could always be counted upon to surprise the infantry. We actually took a section of four M-1s up on of Hohenfels razor-back ridges and sat on top, looking down into an infantry battalion as they prepared an anti-armor ambush for our squadron.

We sat up there, laughing our arses off, as the umpires drove around and "god-gunned" just about every vehicle that battalion. Gotta love simulated artillery!

At the end, when the umpires revealed to the PBI that they had been under direct observation by tanks. The LTC screamed that there were no tanks to his front...the look on his face when we crashed through the trees upslope and to his rear was a true Kodak moment!

That has got to be the worst infantry battalion in the US army. How the hell the couldn't have security out is beyond me. Also, why the hell would you put your anti armor ambush in the low ground out there is utterly stupid.

I think you do bring up a good point. I was the only 19k in the company (how a 19k ended up in a light infantry battalion is another story) but I was surprised to find out that I was the only one who routinely trained in vehicle recognition, new the difference in sounds between and M1 and an M88 and most importantly I recognized what a huge advantage the tankers had over us in LOS. A lot of infantry has no clue how to fight tanks.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

On the other hand, the ability of an M-1 to sneak through the woods could always be counted upon to surprise the infantry. We actually took a section of four M-1s up on of Hohenfels razor-back ridges and sat on top, looking down into an infantry battalion as they prepared an anti-armor ambush for our squadron.

We sat up there, laughing our arses off, as the umpires drove around and "god-gunned" just about every vehicle that battalion. Gotta love simulated artillery!

At the end, when the umpires revealed to the PBI that they had been under direct observation by tanks. The LTC screamed that there were no tanks to his front...the look on his face when we crashed through the trees upslope and to his rear was a true Kodak moment!

A place the M1s could stalk in confidence was at NTC, with it's "low-high" terrain. You might think a jet engine on a tank would be loud, but often you wouldn't hear them until they came over a berm or out of a draw. Then, suddenly they're loud enough to make you fear for your hearing. Tankers in M1s can be quite sneaky.

[The Rifleman]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

A place the M1s could stalk in confidence was at NTC, with it's "low-high" terrain. You might think a jet engine on a tank would be loud, but often you wouldn't hear them until they came over a berm or out of a draw. Then, suddenly they're loud enough to make you fear for your hearing. Tankers in M1s can be quite sneaky.

YES! There are quite a few folds in the ground there. Also, the long distances make it a lot more conducive to the M1s using those optics.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I'd heard somewhere (no pun intended) that the relative quiet of the M1's engine was one of the selling points.