Thinking about NPC damage

[Adm.Lee]

I seem to be in a mood to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks this week...


So, for Christmas I received the Deluxe Edition of Savage Worlds. There's a design note that struck a chord with me regarding how NPCs take damage, "Up, Down, or Out." In those rules, when a PC or NPC takes damage, you compare the damage rolls vs. Toughness, and if the damage is greater, the target is Shaken; for every 4 points over, the target takes a Wound. PCs and important NPCs can take 3 Wounds before going out, most NPCs take only one to go out. Shaken means the target loses its next action, but could roll to recover it. Thus, minis (or whatever) on the table are either Up, Down (Shaken/Wounded) or Out.

Obviously, I'm now wondering about applying this to T2k, and our oft-visited issue of whether bullets do enough damage in this game (v2.) or are too variable (v1), or whatever.

The bit I am wondering about is whether I want to continue, in T2k, tracking 20 (or 2*2d10) hit points for NPCs, and where they got hit, while watching PCs shrug off multiple minor wounds. Maybe I'm tired of watching players struggle with the math involved in v1 damage calculations? The GM I've played with recently has been doing away with NPC damage entirely-- "you hit him, he's down"-- I'm not sure I'm ready to go that far?

Opinions? I think I need to experiment with this, at least.

[Targan]

I'm completely against the concept of having damage rules applying differently to NPCs than to PCs. Also, "Maybe I'm tired of watching players struggle with the math involved in v1 damage calculations?" made me LOL. Thanks for that

[Legbreaker]

V2.2 doubled the NPC points from 20 to 40 making NPCs tougher than some PCs.
And don't forget the instant kill rule - any aimed shot which hits the heat or chest has a chance of inflicting at least a serious wound (even if the weapon is just somethign as pathetic as a .22). PCs watch out for snipers and NPCs with a spare aim action on their hands...

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

V2.2 doubled the NPC points from 20 to 40 making NPCs tougher than some PCs.

That's even worse, IMO-- a 3d6 bullet won't even slow them down at max rolls! I've been using a 2.0 book, with some bits of 2.2 that I've picked up here and there.

And don't forget the instant kill rule - any aimed shot which hits the heat or chest has a chance of inflicting at least a serious wound (even if the weapon is just somethign as pathetic as a .22). PCs watch out for snipers and NPCs with a spare aim action on their hands...

I missed the serious wound part of that rule?

Targan: I could say it's a byproduct of playing with middle-schoolers on summer break, but grown-ups have trouble, too. "Roll dice, add them together and then add that to something else that's been multiplied?"

Maybe I just need to simplify my NPC record-keeping-- record slight, serious, or unwounded, and leave it at that.

I'm still thinking about allowing open-ended damage rolls.

[Legbreaker]

Don't forget that NPCs suffer double damage from head wounds. It doesn't take all that much to take a character out of the action (both NPC and PC) - a simple paper cut can keep them occupied for a few moments while others move in to finish them off.

It sort of makes sense really. Hand grenades aren't actually all that lethal by themselves (although I still wouldn't want to be in the blast radius). They mainly stun the lucky recipient (although of course death may still result) long enough so that a follow up by bayonet or bullet finishes the job.
Also, the automatic fire "danger area" rule makes poking one's head up a little problematic. Nobody likes a bullet to the face (especially NPCs with that pesky double damage rule).

I'll admit, the rules are a bit clunky in places, but it doesn't take all that much combat before players start to realise that body armour and helmets are a MUST and damn the action hero image with nothing more than a torn shirt and red bandanna for "protection".

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Don't forget that NPCs suffer double damage from head wounds.

Nope, I didn't forget that one!

I'll admit, the rules are a bit clunky in places, but it doesn't take all that much combat before players start to realise that body armour and helmets are a MUST and damn the action hero image with nothing more than a torn shirt and red bandanna for "protection".

Back when I ran Merc, one of my PCs, a South African big-game hunter in his day-job, didn't buy a helmet. "Cape buffalo don't shoot back!" The other players knew better, and teased him mercilessly as he lay on his back and bled. "These aren't Cape buffalo!"