OT Things that would never have happened

[Cdnwolf]

Justin Bieber was discovered on youtube in 2008 and if Twight 2000 occurred we would have never got to suffer hearing or seeing him, the Kardasians or Honey boo boo!

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

And despite the constant war, radiation sickness and mass starvation.... the world was a better place.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Oh and no ipod or iphone.........

[Cdnwolf]

No sparkly vampires!!!

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

No digital pattern camouflage uniforms.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Originally Posted by Cdnwolf

No sparkly vampires!!!

Thats even better then no Honey boo boo......

[dragoon500ly]

And people say that nothing good could ever come out of a nuclear war!!!

No Storage Wars, South Beach Towing or Dawg, The Bounty Hunter....

[raketenjagdpanzer]

No DVDs - they were just getting ramped up in the mid/late 90s.

Actually, given that the Cold War didn't end, there's a lot of tech that never would've trickled down to civilian hands (DVDs were not among these, though - the Motion Picture Electronics Group was driving forward from the VERY early 90s). No GPS-in-phone, and, given that the iPhone never got invented likely no smartphones as we know them at all. Sure, cell phones...but 1G "bricks".

If you found a working personal computer in T2k, if it was the fastest thing out there, it'd be a PII-450 or possibly PIII-500 with 3-5gb of hard drive, and perhaps 128-256mb RAM and a 17" tube monitor (flat panel displays were available - I remember installing some - but they were rare).

CDs rode tall in the saddle; cassettes weren't totally out yet (I was making "mix-tapes" for friends up until '96 or so), and vinyl hadn't made the "underground" resurgence yet. Likewise, VHS releases of first-run movies were still common.

I'm sure there's some drugs and medical procedures we take for granted now that wouldn't be at all common had things "stopped" in 1997.

Anyone with Type II diabetes is dead by late mid 1998.

[pmulcahy11b]

Neither George W Bush nor Barak Obama would have been presidents, and it would be the Clinton Administration that took us into World War 3.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Neither George W Bush nor Barak Obama would have been presidents, and it would be the Clinton Administration that took us into World War 3.

Assuming he survived an initial strike, W would have been the de facto president of the Republic of Texas, though.

[Olefin]

Considering where the nuclear attacks are in Texas then George W. Bush definitely would still be alive and governor if the rest to the timeline was followed. The question would be if Clinton would have been re-elected in 1996 with war going on with the Soviets and Chinese - in a situation like that Bob Dole may have been elected instead.

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Considering where the nuclear attacks are in Texas then George W. Bush definitely would still be alive and governor if the rest to the timeline was followed. The question would be if Clinton would have been re-elected in 1996 with war going on with the Soviets and Chinese - in a situation like that Bob Dole may have been elected instead.

IMHO, Bill Clinton would have been re-elected. His "advetures" with Monica would have been ignored in light of the nightmare in the Far East. Also, per V1.0 and v 2.2, the USA was shipping HUGE amounts of anti tank, anti air missles to China. The American economy was performing well, un-employment was low, interest rates were fairly low, the "housing bubble" of the early to mid 2000's was still in the future, and probably not have happened.

So, again IMHO, I see no real reason politically for Bill to fail at the polls.

My $0.02

Mike

[mikeo80]

Some other things we would not have seen IF T2K happened.

1) Lindsay Lohan
2) Teenage Moms
3) International Space Station
4) Hubble Telescope Repair Missions
5) Retirement of Space Shuttles (Maybe even some new ones??)
6) Exxon Oil Spill in Gulf of Mexico (Nukes would have done a LOT more damage)
7) Somali Pirates (IF they showed their pointy little heads, would be SMASHED in passing by US, UK, NATO, whatever)
8) Osama bin Laden, Taliban (Again, smashed by Western powers)
9) Reality TV (Survivor starts in 2000 IRL)
10) ALL of the damn Judge TV shows
11) American Idol (Start 2002 IRL)

These are a few off of the top of my head.

My $0.02

Mike

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Cdnwolf

No sparkly vampires!!!

No, they glow in the dark

My $0.02

Mike

[Olefin]

Mike - Monica didnt happen till 1998

So with war clouds on the horizon and Clinton seen as a peace president I doubt he gets a second term.

And considering the state of the world's navies by 2000 we would definitely have Somali pirates - as well as a lot of others.

As for Bin Laden and his boys - they didnt make their big splash till the East African embassy bombings - and by then the US has a lot more to worry about.

[mikeo80]

Olefin:

You could be very right. The election could have gone another way.

I am reminded of two past US Presidents in (somewhat) similar situations. They both won at the polls. I am thinking about Woodrow Wilson in 1916 and FDR in 1940. So it is possible that Bill would have President. (although, I shudder to think....)

Bin Laden did have his first big splash in Africa, but the Taliban was running wild in Afghanistan. The US might not have spared the effort to squash the Taliban, but it DOES pose an interesting idea to open a "front" on Russia's south side???

Somali's. yes they do not get going until later, but I can still see the US sparing some strength to make sure that WHATEVER shipping is left DOES NOT get poached. (Personnaly, I do not buy the almost TOTAL destruction of USN as proposed by T2K, but that is MHO.)

My $0.02

Mike

[raketenjagdpanzer]

A huge part of Bin Laden's ire was US troops being stationed in Saudi Arabia after GW1. If we assume that didn't happen (GW1, I mean) then he might not be a player at all outside of Afghanistan.

On the other hand given the location and disposition of the RDF on the Arabian peninsula, he might be a HUGE problem in that region...

[Adm.Lee]

Looking past the President (Clinton or Dole), the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs wouldn't be Gen. Cummings, but John Shalikashvili (1993-1997) and/or Hugh Shelton (1997-2001).


Shelton wasn't a Ranger on Grenada, but he was in SF for a while.

[Targan]

Well it's all Butterfly Effect isn't it? Any number of small differences between the real universe and the T2K universe (any of the versions) could change who ascends to the top of the US military leadership in the decade leading up to the Twilight War.

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

Some other things we would not have seen IF T2K happened.

7) Somali Pirates (IF they showed their pointy little heads, would be SMASHED in passing by US, UK, NATO, whatever)
8) Osama bin Laden, Taliban (Again, smashed by Western powers)

actually the taliban would have been an even bigger problem with the war justifying their presence in the region.

as for the pirates they are another result of the cold war. and would likely hit anything coming out of the gulf for the oil.

[Bullet Magnet]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

Some other things we would not have seen IF T2K happened.


2) Teenage Moms

5) Retirement of Space Shuttles (Maybe even some new ones??)

10) ALL of the damn Judge TV shows


These are a few off of the top of my head.

My $0.02

Mike

2) Teen pregnancy happened IRL long before the Twilight War. With economic and other conditions brought about by the war, I think a case could be made that teen pregnancy could increase; some girls might end up "doing what is necessary" just to get some food in her belly.

5) Again, economic conditions of the time and after the war runs down. I'd expect in the decade or two after the war ends, NASA would be running on a tight budget. However, I think as soon as monetary conditions allowed, the US would want to get back into that game, expecting the Soviets are doing the same.

10) Judge shows existed by the mid 1980s, I know because my ma used to watch a few of them back then.
What might be really great is a lessening of "trash TV", like Springer or Maury. I vaguely recall in the 90s Maury was at least trying to be respectable; of course now he only does shows with skanks who bring in a dozen or so guys trying to find the one who is the daddy.
Now I'm thinking what WOULD happen with TV during and after the war. Of course, areas hit by EMP would have lost the ability to watch, but what about the other areas? I imagine once the daily toils of keeping alive were done for the day, people would be eager for anything to take their minds away from reality, if even for an hour.

[Bullet Magnet]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

Olefin:

You could be very right. The election could have gone another way.

I am reminded of two past US Presidents in (somewhat) similar situations. They both won at the polls. I am thinking about Woodrow Wilson in 1916 and FDR in 1940. So it is possible that Bill would have President. (although, I shudder to think....)

My $0.02

Mike

Remember, while WW1 was going on at the time, the US did not enter it until 1917. Wilson actually ran on a platform of keeping the US OUT of the war. Of course, once he knew he had the job, he couldn't throw us into it fast enough.

As for Clinton, he'd have been on his first term at the time the US got involved in 1995 (v1 timeline), and we tend to not like changing leadership during wartime. Of course there'd be some claiming he got us into it deliberately for this reason, the fact is, if NATO looked to be on the road to victory as of election day in 96, he'd have won it.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Bullet Magnet

2)
5) Again, economic conditions of the time and after the war runs down. I'd expect in the decade or two after the war ends, NASA would be running on a tight budget. However, I think as soon as monetary conditions allowed, the US would want to get back into that game, expecting the Soviets are doing the same.

I think that the shuttle fleet would still be flying, and maybe even have an upticked flight schedule. But a majority of their flights would be military or partially-military.

Here's a possibility: a few new shuttles out west at Vandenburg.

And
11) Cooperation between East and West in space exploration.
12) Most civilian space research

[Schone23666]

Well, two things that definitely would not have happened (don't know if it was mentioned already)...Facebook, and Twitter.

Ugh, just mentioning the two gives me a headache.

[John Farson]

Originally Posted by Schone23666

Well, two things that definitely would not have happened (don't know if it was mentioned already)...Facebook, and Twitter.

Ugh, just mentioning the two gives me a headache.

No great loss.

Anyway, here's my view on how the T2k US presidential election of 1996 would have gone with Clinton as president, going with the trope that Americans don't like to change horses mid-stream at a time of war, or when the US is threatened with war.

November 5th, 1996. The final United States presidential election before the nuclear war:



Bill Clinton 465 EV, 52,0% of the popular vote
Bob Dole 73 EV, 39,9% of the popular vote
Ross Perot 0 EV, 7,1% of the popular vote

In fact, Bill Clinton as POTUS and running in 1996 is perfectly logical if one goes by the Finnish T2k sourcebook, as the POD of that is in December 1993, when Clinton is already president.

[pmulcahy11b]

And don't forget the loss of most of those great toys the troops have nowdays.

[Schone23666]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

And don't forget the loss of most of those great toys the troops have nowdays.

Jealous, much?

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Schone23666

Jealous, much?

You're damn right I am!

[stormlion1]

Sure there great toys, until the batteries die and you have to carry the dead weight along in a vain hope of getting new batteries.

[.45cultist]

If one uses the 2013 or later timelines, most of those would be stopped! Sparkly fallout, Beiber only existing on a few Ipods, no more wondering how Honey Boo Boo wins pageants,etc. The only good thing about the bombs and politicians is they and those who elect them suffer also-the "Tommy Atkins Syndrome" is burned away.