The Lobster Coast and Poseidon's Rifles

[Webstral]

My new bathroom reading is The Lobster Coast, which is a history of t coastal Maine by Colin Woodard (the author of American Nations). Reading it makes me think about Poseidon’s Rifles. I did some homework on the cod fisheries of the northwestern Atlantic. Though they were in tough shape in 1997, they were not at total collapse yet. Thinking about the relationship between American and Canadian fishing, I had more ugly ideas than in the past. The Canadian Navy would have been devastated by the very extensive strikes on the Atlantic Provinces and Quebec. (Too bad Canada had no nukes, right?) I know now what USCGC Gallatin was doing when she was at sea 1998-2001. She was eliminating Canadian competition for cod and other fish from George’s Bank at the entrance to the Gulf of Maine to Grand Bank off Newfoundland. This is a very unhappy thought. Yet we’re talking Twilight: 2000, right? Former allies turn on each other all the time after the nuclear exchange. Why would northeastern North America be any different? “Anti-piracy” easily could morph into missions to keep the Canadians from exploiting fisheries anywhere fishing vessels operating out of Maine, New Hampshire, and northeastern Massachusetts could reach.

Ugh. I feel dirty and awful contemplating the idea that the US Coast Guard essentially would wage war against the fishing boats and communities of the Atlantic Provinces. That’s Twilight: 2000, though.

[Raellus]

It's an interesting idea. I can see it happening. I wonder, however, if it would really be necessary.

With shortages of fossil fuels, catches couldn't be transported far inland. Fish would turn into a more local/regional food source. After the nuclear strikes and the chaos that would surely follow, would coastal populations be up or down? If the latter, so would demand, and, therefore, controlling the supply wouldn't be as important- at least, not important enough to go to war over.

On the other hand, if the coastal population grew for some reason- refugees, perhaps, pulled east to find food (i.e seafood)- then supply becomes a bigger issue and controlling the fisheries would become more important.

I see a similar situation north of the border. In the former scenario, Canada's big coastal cities get hit and there's not likely going to be as much demand Canadian for fish either. Their fishing fleet, therefore, wouldn't have the need or the means to create that much competition for American fishing fleets.

As I've written this, I've pretty much convinced myself that a shooting war over fisheries wouldn't be worth it. Due to population loss and limits on fossil fuels, industrial-scale fishing would decrease, the fisheries could recover naturally, and there'd be plenty of fish for the survivors of both New England and Eastern Canada. It doesn't seem like it would be worthwhile making enemies over.

[kalos72]

In my world, coastal communities are crucial for the areas survival so this scenario is very feasible to me.

Without control of the waters around you, you are vulnerable to the likes of the UBF and such.

Life on the water is always going to be easier...think of the colonies.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Raellus

With shortages of fossil fuels, catches couldn't be transported far inland. Fish would turn into a more local/regional food source.

How far the fish would go inland depends a good deal on how it is preserved and transported. For instance, salted fish caught in the Gulf of Maine could go up the Merrimack to Manchester, NH. Even fresh fish might make it up there. In theory, fish could go up any of the navigable rivers of Maine fairly easily. There are many variables involved in the transportation challenge. It would be interesting to explore.

Originally Posted by Raellus

On the other hand, if the coastal population grew for some reason- refugees, perhaps, pulled east to find food (i.e seafood)- then supply becomes a bigger issue and controlling the fisheries would become more important.

My thoughts exactly. Throughout 1998, refugees from Metro Boston and the interior of Maine will move to the coastal areas under the control of First District for food and physical security. As word spreads that the area under the control of First District is both relatively safe and blessed with enough food, and as chaos spreads during the course of the year, Southern Maine and Midcoast will draw more of the survivors from further inland. There may never seem to be enough fish—especially since the unhappy reality is that by 1997 the catch of everything except lobsters is running at a fraction of historical highs.

Originally Posted by Raellus

I see a similar situation north of the border. In the former scenario, Canada's big coastal cities get hit and there's not likely going to be as much demand Canadian for fish either. Their fishing fleet, therefore, wouldn't have the need or the means to create that much competition for American fishing fleets.

I’d like it if that is how it works out. However, the degree of actual competition might not be as great as the perception of competition. A string of bad catches may prompt the Americans to say, “And we’re just letting those Canucks take the fish our people need…!” Of course, cooler heads may prevail, too.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Webstral

How far the fish would go inland depends a good deal on how it is preserved and transported. For instance, salted fish caught in the Gulf of Maine could go up the Merrimack to Manchester, NH. Even fresh fish might make it up there. In theory, fish could go up any of the navigable rivers of Maine fairly easily. There are many variables involved in the transportation challenge. It would be interesting to explore.

I'd thought about salting the fish, but then I'm assuming getting large quantities of salt would also require energy. And refrigeration would as well. I think available energy would dictate how much fish could be preserved via salting and how far fish, either salted or refrigerated could be transported. And then, fishing fleets and the warships sent to defend them and/or raid Canadian shipping would need energy too. How much would there be to go around? During wartime, I think this would be a much bigger challenge than when things had settled down somewhat. In terms of long-term recover, those fisheries could prove crucial. There are a lot of factors to consider.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by kalos72

Life on the water is always going to be easier...think of the colonies.

Which ones? Coastal life can also be dangerous. Think about the coastal communities within range of Viking raiders or 16th-17th century freebooters. I wouldn't be surprised to see a resurgence of groups that make their living raiding coastal communities.

[kalos72]

Dealing with the rare occasion of a viking raid versus the thousands of starving turned marauder refugees inland is a trade off I am ok with.

I myself are using the idea of developing a string of outposts along the Gulf and up the East Coast to help rebuild.

Water travel is going to much easier and much safer for the short term anyways.

As for preservation, simple sun drying will accomplish ALOT.

[Brother in Arms]

This is a very interesting idea Web.

Hopefully I can add some perspective being that I am from the interior of Maine. I grew up in the town of Mexico, Oxford county.

here are some things to keep in mind when it comes to Maine especially in the interior.

last week it snowed 20" in the course of one night. Now this is march mind you and this winter has been more like they were 25-30 years ago. Many nights and days have been between 0 and -10 Fahrenheit and even colder.

I think many people from the Interior of Maine would move toward the coast due to the harshness of the winter found in the interior of the state. And with no plow trucks running and no money for road salt/sand the roads would be closed all winter. Therefore people would have to resort so snowmobiles, dog sleds, ski's and snow shoes.

The weather on coast tends to be warmer and have less snow that alone could be a reason to move.

Food could be good reason to move, to the coast.

If I was to live in my hometown post Twilight war. I would have to farm in the warmer months. Surprisingly corn grows well here due to the excellent soil. But the growing season is very short. Potatoes grow well here also and typical garden veggies. Hunting for Partridge (ruffled grouse), gray squirrels, white tail deer, black bear, moose would be good as well as trapping all manner of fur bearing animals. We have everything from muskrat and beaver, to mink, pine marten, fisher. As well as critters like Coyotes and racoons. Next would be fishing rivers and streams during spring for fish that run like smelts. And fishing for trout, salmon ect. in summer and fall. Ice fishing in winter would probably be a pretty productive means of getting food and maybe your only way to get food. however you are very exposed while ice fishing and one man with a good hunting rifle could kill off an entire party of men ice fishing pretty easily from a concealed position on a hillside.

There is no shortage of fish like mackerel and strippers off the coast of Maine. And I don't think transporting the fish up the major rivers like the Androgscoggin, Kennebec, Penobscot, would be difficult. Also in sprung there are fish that run like smelts, eels, elvers and ale-wives that run in these rivers in coastal areas.

Could I imagine coastal fisheries being fought over? Sure why not happened several times in the past why not again.

Brother in Arms

[Adm.Lee]

Nice coincidence for me, I am now reading (listening to CDs in the car) "Cod: the biography of the fish that changed the world." Cod, of course, mostly means the NE coast of North America, Iceland, and islands east of there.

Salt cod was transported to Europe, the Caribbean, and the Mediterranean in the days of sail, so moving it in 2000 shouldn't be a problem-- IF it can be cured.

Salt itself had to be found elsewhere. The Caribbean (I forget which islands) and Spain were some sources.

[Webstral]

In The Lobster Coast, I’m reading now about the wars between the First Nations (principally the Wabanaki) and the English settlers of Maine that ran from the time of King Philip’s War in southern New England through the early 1700’s. Woodard does a great job of describing a Maine depopulated, devastated, and devoid of gainful human activity. He brews a very strong draught of Twilight: 2000. He does not forget to mention the fate of the First Nations in all this. He points out that the Wabanaki could not raise crops and wage war at the same time; as a consequence, starvation overtook many. Most of the remainder fled inland or to French territory. Woodard even uses the term “howling wilderness”.

That’s very good input, Brother. I have read much the same. It’s good to have confirmation from someone on the ground and in the know. I have read that some of the best potato country in the nation in is northern Maine (I can’t remember the county). Alas, I foresee this whole area becoming depopulated.

At the risk of constantly referring to my own work, it’s the tendency of the populace to head either to the coast or to fortified cantonments in the interior that leads to the emergence of the hordes. In Howling Wilderness, the hordes emerge because there isn’t enough food to go around. I don’t believe a drought is necessary for this. Once the non-marauding population consolidates into defended cantonments, the marauding portion of the population is going to have to adapt or die. Many will die. Inevitably, though, some of the smaller marauder bands incapable of tackling the remaining defended cantonments will band together to achieve their ends by sheer weight of numbers.

I foresee the population of the interior of Maine migrating to the coast during 1998. This movement largely will be completed during 1999, with the remaining population of the interior being divided between cantonments and brigands. Small farmsteads and other rugged individuals will be wiped out. Some of the small Maine cities located along the major rivers might retain a portion of their population based on a shaky trade network with First District in which ocean fish and manufactured goods (like refurbished small arms, small arms ammunition, etc) are traded for salvaged goods and other food stuffs.

[Olefin]

Which Challenge magazine article had the information on the First District - love to get that one

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Which Challenge magazine article had the information on the First District - love to get that one

Issue 39. It's in a mini module called "Rife River" (which in my opinion is one of the best of the Challenge adventures).

[Brother in Arms]

Webstral
indeed the wars waged during the 17th-18th centuries were pretty much total war on the Native Americans. King phillip's war was was pretty much the last big native incursion without help from there "white fathers". And it truly was a war of attrition. Starvation and sickness being the most potent weapons in that war. As for a “howling wilderness”. Mary Rowlandson's quoted this in her captivity narrative (but I think it's from an earlier puritanical source, William Bradford perhaps) So it's a somewhat famous term in the re-enactor community.

And lets not forget the Native Americans who live here today
http://www.native-languages.org/maine.htm

They already have villages and cantonments of sorts some like Indian Island in Old town have been there since at least the 1600's and it was actually fortified with log Picketts in the time of Samuel De Champlain!!! So I can see them being there own government entities as they are today.

Webstral wrote:
"That’s very good input, Brother. I have read much the same. It’s good to have confirmation from someone on the ground and in the know. I have read that some of the best potato country in the nation in is northern Maine (I can’t remember the county). Alas, I foresee this whole area becoming depopulated."

Aroostook county is the county of which you speak... also simply known just as "The County" nothing there but deep lakes and red brown soil, and forests. The people up there are highly self sufficient (unless you count there dependency on alcohol and marijuana) Some people might just stay there regardless of how bad it gets. There are still people there who have never left "the county" except maybe to go to Canada. I once saw a fellow up there with a large tatoo in jet black ink. It was in old English script and was tattooed across his stomach in an arch west coast gangsta fashion...and it read "The County's the Best fuck the rest."

I would agree that many people would head to the coast or to other fortification towns, free holds ect. I think that they would be building them close to rivers, or even on large lakes (of which there are many) Also there are some large fields especially in the river valleys like Androscoggin that grow corn and have for centuries.

The thing that gets me when it comes to marauders and citizens of these enclaves, is all the weapons....Maine is just laden with all manners of small arms....it's not uncommon today for one person to own 50-100 firearms...and many, many people own half a dozen or more without even trying (having had them left to them ect.) even little old ladies have at least one rifle or hand gun lingering in a closet somewhere from some relative. I would wager that there are more firearms here than people. And that is strictly privately owned. Not even talking about military weapons or illegal machine guns that people have hidden. So I think there would be plenty of stuff to set it off with as far as marauders and forts are concerned!!!

Webstral wrote:
"I foresee the population of the interior of Maine migrating to the coast during 1998. This movement largely will be completed during 1999, with the remaining population of the interior being divided between cantonments and brigands. Small farmsteads and other rugged individuals will be wiped out."

I think most people would move especially if they are small town or city people...but I also think there are enough remote areas and hiding spots that there would be small farmsteads and rugged individuals..there are literally dozens of abandoned and grown up farmsteads on the tops and side of huge mountains. I have found cellar holes all over Maine and in some very inhospitable places. These mostly from the 19th century (but some older) the point is, if you wanted to hide out and raise food and animals. You could probably get away with it and not be caught. But have one bad season or get sick and your dead.


Webstral wrote:
"Some of the small Maine cities located along the major rivers might retain a portion of their population based on a shaky trade network with First District in which ocean fish and manufactured goods (like refurbished small arms, small arms ammunition, etc) are traded for salvaged goods and other food stuffs."

Lets not forget that Maine has a lot of old Forts like FORT KNOX. ( I used to work at) It's in Prospect Maine. and its kind of in a perfect spot right on the Penobscot and made of giant stone blocks and is huge. Last time it was garrisoned was in 1898 during the spanish American war.


Also what is the "first district" sorry I am not that well read on T2K as I haven't had the books in like since 2004. And I don't remember much.

Brother in Arms

Edited to add: HOLY CRAP I THOUGHT I LOST ALL OF THIS I JUST WROTE!!!! Thank god for the back button.

WEBSTRAL read the book "Liberty Men and Great Proprietors"
http://www.amazon.com/Liberty-Men-Gr.../dp/0807842826

Its about post revolution to about 1820
it helps explain why Maine is how it is today.

[Brother in Arms]

Sorry didn't know how to do the coloured boxes...anyone want to that you are welcome too!

Brother in Arms