Those Left Behind

[Webstral]

I don’t know why I never thought about this, but who do the characters in Escape from Kalisz leave behind? Soldiers everywhere throughout history fraternize with the locals. Surely the troops of 5th ID are no different. How many of the PCs leave behind local wives—even local children of very young ages?

[Olefin]

Most likely unless they had camp followers or were married to other soldiers there wasnt enough time for them to make real contact with the locals - they had only been in Poland a short time during the offensive.

However back in their base camp areas they would have left behind wives, children, husbands, etc.. - and most likely soldiers who were either too sick or too injured to move out with the 5th when they went on the offensive. You could see them refusing to evacuate with Omega, hoping to eventually find their loved ones and comrades - along with those who were in the other formations that got cut off during the Russian counter-offensive.

[Rainbow Six]

Seems like a reasonable supposition...whilst there is ample historical precedent for camp followers to accompany the troops on campaign I think it may be more likely that those local wives and children might have remained behind at whatever location the 5th was in cantonment in before it moved into Poland (I'm guessing that was somewhere in eastern Germany).

Another aspect of this is that given the absence of any conventional media as we now know it, it may be some time (several months at least) before they find out their menfolk aren't coming back (if indeed they ever "officially" find out). These days you get so used to being able to switch on the TV or PC and get 24 hour news coverage from all over the World that it's sometimes difficult to imagine what a world without the media would be like. One can only imagine the wives the men of the 5th left behind getting increasingly desperate as they try to find out information about the Division's fate.

On the other side of the coin many troops of all nations may have families back home who they have not heard from for some years with a mutual lack of knowledge...the troops in Europe don't know what has happened to their families and the families in the UK, the US, Canada, etc don't know what has happened to the troops.

How many troops take a local wife not knowing whether their wife back home has survived the nuclear exchange...how many wives back home do what they have to do to survive...It's an interesting human / moral angle..good thought Webstral.

[Olefin]

and actually the experiences of the characters themselves in getting out would lead them to either seek out their families or get word somehow to the 5th Divisions cantontment for them - in fact I am surprised its not part of Going Home - i.e. the logical way for the characters to escape is to go to that area to be able to pick up family members or tell those that are there what they know - i.e. they wont know the fate of the whole division but they will know the fate of a lot of people

For instance my character in the original game I played in college and his tank crew were the last survivors of his tank company - all the others were taken out in front of him (back story I came up with) - thus when I got back to Germany for Going Home you would think that communicating with the families of that company would be a priority, assuming they had any

not all soliders would have had any families there but some would for sure

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Olefin

and actually the experiences of the characters themselves in getting out would lead them to either seek out their families or get word somehow to the 5th Divisions cantontment for them - in fact I am surprised its not part of Going Home - i.e. the logical way for the characters to escape is to go to that area to be able to pick up family members or tell those that are there what they know - i.e. they wont know the fate of the whole division but they will know the fate of a lot of people

Sorry but I can't help but think of some poor bloke that fights his way across western Poland to get back to the cantonment in Germany to see his fraulein only to find when he gets there that she gave up on him months ago and has found herself a new boyfriend...

[Olefin]

would make for excellent Return to Europe type material - a bunch of husbands/wives/soldiers who didnt go on the offensive (i.e. the player characters) head out from the cantonment of the 5th to find out what happened to their loved ones and comrades and break some of them out of a god forsaken POW camp somewhere in central Poland

Damn Webstral this is a great thread idea!! Keep them coming.

[Brother in Arms]

Yeah Webstral has quite the imaginative head on his shoulders. His ideas area always affecting my perspective, and giving me better ideas.

Brother in Arms

[kato13]

Where was the 5th's pre-assault cantonment? For some reason I thought it was now behind enemy lines.

[Olefin]

Actually I am not sure if it was ever named as to the exact spot - and if it was in the path of the enemy offensive they may have retreated before it and now be somewhere else in Germany. Actually it may have been concurrent with the cantontments for all the US and Canadian units involved in the offensive

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by kato13

Where was the 5th's pre-assault cantonment? For some reason I thought it was now behind enemy lines.

The only thing I can remember tonight about 5th ID and 8th ID and the cantonments was a statement in both V1.0 and 2.2. I will paraphrase as I do not have the books in front of me right now. The American forces were chosen to be part of the operation because they had fewer attachments to their cantonments.

Now this implies to me that the reinforcement of the American Troops that was started by both Mil-Gov and Civ-Gov were successful to a degree. Both sources state that both governments scratched together ANY warship and/or cargo ship to re-supply Europe.

My $0.02

Mike

[kato13]

I think this is where I got it from.

The United States 5th Infantry Division (Mechanized) jumped
off on its raid on June 19th from Chojnice and Czluchow in a
converging drive on the Bydgoszcz and Torun area.

From "Death of a Division"

I don't know if that is where they had cantonments of just where they moved to start the summer offensive. On rereading it, I suspect they moved there. (Edit)
Shortly after the division died Chojnice and Czluchow were well behind enemy lines. 100 Km from nearest friendly unit (2nd US Marine) and about 200km from the majority of the front lines.

[Adm.Lee]

I don't think there was any info about where any formation in US XI Corps was based prior to the spring of 2000, and I'm pretty sure I've looked. Depending on which US Army (Fourth or Seventh) it was attached to, it could be anywhere. Myself, I'd put it in the north or northwest, meaning it crossed Germany to join the Third German Army, but that it was available for use-- not holding the line against the Pact in the east or the south.

In college, I remember I ran an NPC, a German recon NCO with a wife and daughter in Bremen (or was it Hannover?). At least one of the players made it a personal goal to get him back home.

Running a group of left-behinds, trying to pick up the fate of the 5th Division would be a very interesting idea-- they would have to move fast, if they hope to beat Omega.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

I don't think there was any info about where any formation in US XI Corps was based prior to the spring of 2000, and I'm pretty sure I've looked. Depending on which US Army (Fourth or Seventh) it was attached to, it could be anywhere. Myself, I'd put it in the north or northwest, meaning it crossed Germany to join the Third German Army, but that it was available for use-- not holding the line against the Pact in the east or the south.

In college, I remember I ran an NPC, a German recon NCO with a wife and daughter in Bremen (or was it Hannover?). At least one of the players made it a personal goal to get him back home.

Running a group of left-behinds, trying to pick up the fate of the 5th Division would be a very interesting idea-- they would have to move fast, if they hope to beat Omega.

Actually I could see several ways you could do a search party in a campaign

Pre-Omega - it could be run either as part of a Going Home scenario - i.e. player characters run into a party composed of relatives and now healed up soldiers who werent at Kalisz searching for their buddies/families - could even be how they find out about Omega

Post Omega - could be run as part of a return to Europe scenario where either the search party is the player characters or the player characters again run into relatives and soldiers who refused to be evacuated - either looking to find out what happened and possibly bring them back to Germany or in connection with a second Omega - this one being sent from the RDF to pick up any stragglers or to try to get out the rest of the units that were cut off but still intact in Poland and werent evac'd during Omega

[.45cultist]

A family trying to reach CONUS after Omega would be interesting. It would also allow two campaigns.

[kalos72]

Since I LOVE the Chico & Groups work, I love the idea of a fleet going around the world to gather our forces and bring them home.

In my world, thats the plan but on a more "private" scale...

[Olefin]

actually from a thread that was posted a long time ago on Korea, Frank Frey was talking about how there was going to be a general evacuation of Korea in either Feb or March of 2001 to bring the forces to the RDF for use in Iran - which makes a lot of sense as the Marine forces there could really be used to good effect by the RDF and the war in Korea is basically over now.

My GM postulated MilGov thru the RDF trying to get the units in Yugoslavia to join them as well - by evacuating thru the Med to Israel and then moving them to either Iran or Iraq

basically a gathering of every force they could get their hands on outside of the US to try to win the war in the Middle East