Hidden rule, crouching facepalm

[Adm.Lee]

I don't remember why I was just flipping through the Big Yellow Book just now, but I was. I read through the Skills section in Character Generation, and something popped out that I could have sworn wasn't there before.

When a skill level matches its controlling attribute, every skill point above that is halved.

I don't know how many times I've griped about players who plow every skill point they can grab into Small Arms (rifle), to end up with super-shooter PCs with no other skills worth speaking of.

[Cdnwolf]

Missed it too....

[headquarters]

you give those guys a high and windy climb or an IED to disarm....

[Olefin]

Done that myself - its very easy to forget that the game is about a hell of a lot more than just being able to nail someone with an M16 - being a great shot wont help much if you cant forage very well or walk into ambushes that a five year should be able to detect

A good way to look at it is what skills would you need to have even survived the war to that point as basic setup - i.e. any soldiers in Europe for instance would have been there and been in combat at a minimum two years - there is no way being just a super sniper with hardly any other skills would let you survive to even get to mid 2000

[Bullet Magnet]

There are many situations where rifle skill can be totally irrelevant. Suppose the PCs need to meet someone in a bar (nice RPG stereotypical situation). The bar owners may take a dim view on customers sporting obvious weaponry, maybe even have a weapons check at the door. If things get ugly, as often happens in these scenarios, being able to use that concealed pistol you were able to get in would be quite useful. Or maybe things got ugly and there you are with no weapon at all. The fat end of a broken cue stick makes for a passable club. And of course, someone skilled in unarmed combat could shine in this setting. Being able to shoot a fly off a horse's ass at 1500 meters means nothing if you don't have your rifle, and are face to face with a 4th degree black belt.

And of course, non combat situations. Being able to scrounge up some new spark plugs to get the HMMWV moving could be a wonderful thing when that enemy division is fast approaching.

So, go for it! Let them throw every point they can find into rifle skill. Then, put them in as many situations you can think of, where other skills would be far more useful. Sharpen up those Evil GM horns!

[Olefin]

love the barfight scenario or the scrounger one - lots of other things you can throw in - like finding the perfect snipers perch for your guy with all that skill at shooting - but he cant climb worth a damn and injures hiimself big time when he fails in his attempt - or when the enemy finds you and has armor and the guy carrying the anti-tank rockets gets it - and there you sit the proud owner of an anti-tank missile launcher that you have no ability to use

or you fail trying to interrogate someone because you had to be the best shot in the world and as a result you fail to find out about that Russian infantry platoon that has taken up residence in that town you are about to enter

[pmulcahy11b]

The two skills my players in the past have used in games have Driver and Disguise. Driver even more than weapon skills. If you have to dodge or ram an engagement, you need a good driver.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Bullet Magnet

And of course, non combat situations. Being able to scrounge up some new spark plugs to get the HMMWV moving could be a wonderful thing when that enemy division is fast approaching.

I think the HMMWV uses glow plugs, not spark plugs.

[Bullet Magnet]

Originally Posted by Targan

I think the HMMWV uses glow plugs, not spark plugs.

OK, my mistake.
Hey, what do I know. I'm no mechanic.
It was just meant as an example anyway.

[kato13]

One of the technical mistakes that GDW made in T2k was one saying that the HMMWV variants could run on G (Gasoline) in the fuel type sections. I can see how that might lead to confusion.

They made so few major mistakes that generally I took what they said as gospel. The only other one I can remember now was saying that the Mk-19 could fire LV 40mm rounds.

[NanbanJim]

Originally Posted by Bullet Magnet

OK, my mistake.
Hey, what do I know. I'm no mechanic...

Stop dumping your points into rifle! :P

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Bullet Magnet

OK, my mistake.
Hey, what do I know. I'm no mechanic.
It was just meant as an example anyway.

Well Bullet Magnet, this actually proves your point - if nobody in the group has any other skills, all the rifle skill in the world won't help them repair their vehicle or scrounge spare parts for it!

[Olefin]

Now there is an idea to teach players a lesson - your squad of super snipers trudging for home and finding an abandoned vehicle with a full fuel tank and ready to go in all aspects except it needs a relatively minor repair that none of them (since they all decided to be Davy Crockett with an M-16 or pistol) have - and thus its completely useless to them (and they cant even take the fuel because they are completely loaded down with ammo and dont have any jerry cans on them)

[Bullet Magnet]

NanbanJim: Stop dumping your points into rifle! :P
StainlessSteelCynic: Well Bullet Magnet, this actually proves your point - if nobody in the group has any other skills, all the rifle skill in the world won't help them repair their vehicle or scrounge spare parts for it!

Looks like I need to throw more into Recon skill (v1. Is it the same in v2?) Because I stepped right into that, and should have seen it.

And Olefin. Yeah, that's what I was thinking of, when I made the post above, encouraging the "sharpening of the Evil GM horns".

[cavtroop]

when I used to have a group and GM (v1, a long long time ago!) my group was usually pretty good during character creation at having most of the bases covered - medical/foraging/recon/shooting/mechanic etc. Took some of the stress about GMing away that's for sure

[Adm.Lee]

I made it kind of easy for them in the last game, I told them to make up 1 combat-arms character and 1 support character. That meant that finding wrecks wasn't a problem.

It was sort of self-correcting, half the combat characters got shot early on, and were ineffective for most of the campaign. This was a v2 game, by the way. The kids also figured out to make Str the highest ability, to aid in shooting. In hindsight, I should have also made them roll in order.

In v1, I found that everyone had so many skill points available, it wasn't hard to cover a lot of bases (one of my few quibbles with v1). I remember in particular one character named "Mr. Fifty"-- the player wanted to see how many skills he could set at 50% and no higher. He was pretty capable, but I forget what the number was. I think he even was a SEAL officer, but that might have been a different PC from the same player?

I do remember that in v1, once skills went over 50, the points were cut in half.

[pmulcahy11b]

I used to like to make up weird characters -- the reactor metallurgist, the psychiatrist, the war reporter, the motocross champion (made a good scout), the Olympic biathlon skier.

[Panther Al]

Heh...


Always missed that one too.

My favourite character was one who while, yes, did have that stupid high Small Arms Skill, I moved from Combat Arms after a few terms. Basicly, I was rolling like a loon during the whole generation process. Stupidly high attributes, and really lucky rolls on rank, and war term. After the 3rd term of Special Ops, I made him a supply guy - for another 3 terms and then the War Term. Old Codger: Ran him as that Crusty Veteran Scrounger, who let all those younger guys do all the fighting while he took care of the gear. Since he had more cash than you could shake a stick at, I made a deal with the GM: I got a Ambulance Humvee made out to be his private office/hooch on wheels, stocked with about any item you could wish that wasn't combat usable. Needless to say, loaded with things like stoogies, coffee, pressed uniforms... always looked like he came right out of an advert, always with the best of anything.

Of course, those first three terms came in handy now and then as he would occasionally pull out something really weird (Like that old German Anti Tank rifle from the small arms book) and take shots that boggled the imagination.

Was a lot of fun.

[jester]

Yeah, I missed that the first five years, no worries.